unsaved living with saved

I was that way when I married my husband. He had been saved as a child, I had not. I didn't even know what being saved was when we were married (he was backsliding at the time). For some time even though I understood the concept I couldn't seem to gain that relationship with God. With time I understood better and one day I just knew that I could have that relationship with God that I was seeking, but not quite finding. It took several years to get to that point though. I am not sure how new your marriage is or your faith for that matter, but it simply may take more time and prayer to get you to the point where you really feel like you have the relationship that you had in mind. I can say this for sure.....I am still working on having a better relationship with God. I don't think that I will ever stop trying to improve on that relationship nor do I think that God will ever want me to.

No one is saved unless He has changed and become the Spiritual man or Spiritual women. And these are not without gifts of God and without faith and without more knowledge than what is in the bible. So you can relax...for all intent and purposes your spouse is not anymore saved than you. To be born of God is also to not sin ever...it is to enter into the gospel of perfection..also called Gospel of the Grace of GOD mentioned in the acts. In Galatians it is written that those who are led by the Spirit (Born of God) ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW...since following the Spirit is the highest law of all. In Romans it is written those who are led by the Spirit are called Sons (By GOD). And in Revelation those who overcome the world will get these three additional gifts....The Hidden manna, the White Stone (Urim) and shall receive a New Name denoting the new nature of that person. So if your spouse, has not a white stone, not yet received the hidden manna and not received a new name from GOD she is not any more saved than you. Do you want to know how many are really saved in the eyes of God which is different from the teachings of men....By Jeremiah God that He will lead to Zion ...ONE OF A CITY AND TWO OF A FAMILY....in the early churches a city stood for 10,000. But if God meant a literal city then only one in New York is ready to live in Zion.

Who is saved...well there is Salvation for the flesh which is taken care of by the resurrection it is written that both the just and the unjust shall resurrect. Even David..shall be given victory over death, diseases and hunger...but our Spirit will be judged by our Works. Because of this no one gets the promises that he is saved until God is sure and God is sure when we become the Spiritual man.

I am married to a person who is a feminist and it clashed terribly with the commandments of God concerning gender based roles....This has led her out of the church. As her husband I am responsible to love her which is unconditional love regardless of her religious views. To teach her Spiritual laws by as much as she lets me. And then leave it to God to deal with her. If you learn and Go into unconditional love...you will understand that your spouse does not define you..nor is it up to your spouse to make you happy. With unconditional love there is no more fear. Because over time we all change physically, Spiritually and in Characteristic traits. With unconditional love we do not waste our time in trying to keep our Spouse as they were and this prevent growth. The fighting a lot of times even if we do not realize it is about trying to stop time and trying to force our Spouse to be what we fell in love with. Conditional love is called darkness by God because fears exist with this love...force, coercion, jealousies etc . This love dies and can often turn into hate even with a passion. So it is urgent that people move out from conditional love into unconditional love as soon as it is possible...This unconditional love also brings God into our marriage since This is also the love of God for us.

Jodi Sue said:

  Has anyone ever been married to a spouse who was saved and you weren't? You believe in Jesus but you just can't seem to get as close to the Lord as your spouse? What do you do?

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The statement "Can't get as close to the lord as your spouse" is erroneous. God is close to YOU. He comes near. You can't do anything to get closer to him. Making your other question "What do you do?" erroneous also. You can't compare yourself to someone else and determine who is "closer" to God. Nor can you determine if someone else is "saved" or not. All you can do is accept God and who he is, as the determiner of your destiny, and give over the control to him. That's all you can "do". Again, it is just misleading to think you can compare your "progress" on this to someone else.
You said you "believe in Jesus"--that's fine. I find some people say they "believe in Jesus" and it's more of a cult of personality and not a real belief in God the Father. In your statement you said you "believe in Jesus" but just "can't get as close to the Lord" implying that you think "the Lord" and "jesus" are different. I could be wrong but that was my first thought...

Read the Scriptures on how it works..from GOD himself....for iniquities men separate themselves from GOD and for Sins GOD does not hear. This also helps to explain the helplessness of Christian nations and bible belt concerning the wrath being poured on them.

Isaiah 59:2 - But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Iniquities are walls that prevent us from hearing Our Father in heaven. The Love of God for is all around us waiting to enter into us...but if we build walls......We must tear them down ourselves with repentance. Unconditional Love does not force itself on man...neither does it coerce man to receive it.... God has give men the freedom to wall themselves off from it.

The Second part of the verse...Sins are willful transgression and being found guilty for them under justice. Again until we do something about them....GOD will hide His Face from sinners so that He does not hear. Repent and in Repentance the Lord can hear and help...but not without the man first going into repentance. Jesus Himself Said..He came to call sinners into repentance.

Do not get confused...the GOD of the OT is still the GOD of the NT. Justice has not been done away with. We have a New and Everlasting Covenant...remember it is a Covenant...and if men do not fulfill the conditions of the promises they do not receive the promises. Faith is finding the means in fulfilling the Conditions...Grace is when men hear God they come out from being under the law (Gal) and in Romans..those who are led by the Spirit of God they are called sons. A word to all here...no man can hear God in his iniquities and no man's voice is heard by God as long as he remains in his sins. Repentance that lead to perfection in Love is the only way for a person to enter into the Gospel of the Grace of the Lord (Acts). Grace is not just a word it is a whole Gospel. Again see Acts.

bert10

Brianlear said:

The statement "Can't get as close to the lord as your spouse" is erroneous. God is close to YOU. He comes near. You can't do anything to get closer to him. Making your other question "What do you do?" erroneous also. You can't compare yourself to someone else and determine who is "closer" to God. Nor can you determine if someone else is "saved" or not. All you can do is accept God and who he is, as the determiner of your destiny, and give over the control to him. That's all you can "do". Again, it is just misleading to think you can compare your "progress" on this to someone else.
You said you "believe in Jesus"--that's fine. I find some people say they "believe in Jesus" and it's more of a cult of personality and not a real belief in God the Father. In your statement you said you "believe in Jesus" but just "can't get as close to the Lord" implying that you think "the Lord" and "jesus" are different. I could be wrong but that was my first thought...

Click to expand...

This post will deal with God...and GOD, Lord and LORD...I know of one verse where in the OT it is translated correctly...This is what David saw and heard...in a vision...

Psalms 110:1 - A Psalm of David. The LORD (Father) said unto my Lord, (Jehovah/Jesus) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

For those who say differently...As for Jesus who will sit at His Right hand or left hand is the Father not Jesus the Son of GOD.

Matthew 20:23 - And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

Then who will be at the Right hand of the Father? That position is already decided on and taken....

Matthew 26:64 - Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

And the Frosting on the Cake...

Mark 16:19 - So then after the Lord (Jesus) had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (GOD/FATHER).

dan.

Brianlear said:

The statement "Can't get as close to the lord as your spouse" is erroneous. God is close to YOU. He comes near. You can't do anything to get closer to him. Making your other question "What do you do?" erroneous also. You can't compare yourself to someone else and determine who is "closer" to God. Nor can you determine if someone else is "saved" or not. All you can do is accept God and who he is, as the determiner of your destiny, and give over the control to him. That's all you can "do". Again, it is just misleading to think you can compare your "progress" on this to someone else.
You said you "believe in Jesus"--that's fine. I find some people say they "believe in Jesus" and it's more of a cult of personality and not a real belief in God the Father. In your statement you said you "believe in Jesus" but just "can't get as close to the Lord" implying that you think "the Lord" and "jesus" are different. I could be wrong but that was my first thought...

Click to expand...

I don't consider myself "saved" but why wife says she is convinced she is. That kind of assurance, I suppose, is comforting. It bothered her a lot while we were dating and I would talk to her about the reasons. It is up to God to do the saving, to measure faith, to give someone a new heart (Ezekiel 36). I still believe, I know there is a God and His Son is Jesus the Christ. I believe fully in the Nicene Creed. She worries about me telling the kids (we don't have any yet), but maybe by then my salvation will be revealed. As long as there is air in my lungs I think there's a chance.

Christianity has not been able to translate even a small community into heaven in the last two thousand years ...unlike the city of Zion before the flood or Salem after the flood and one of the reasons for it is the Nicene Creed which was formulated after the man of sin took over the early Churches.

Hope in your heart....

Vision comes first,,,then Hope...then faith and works. That is how the law works. I first had to learn from the laws of marriage as it was first given....and also what is "Unconditional love". Afterwards I taught them to my wife. And also warned her that if she continued to rebel...there would be consequences. If you bring the power of God in your marriage....things will begin to happen it depends on the period of time God gives for each sin.

As long as there is air in my lungs I think there is hope.

Revelation 2:17 - He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

The promises are given and also the condition in Revelation 2:17, Christians in the early Churches have done this..before the time of the Nicene creed...For Paul said..."Howbeit we speak wisdom among them who are perfect......"

Overcoming the world requires the vision, the hope and the faith along with works. If any of these are missing we go to the grave in our sins.

P/s A person who is saved has his voice heard in heaven...and they overcome the world instead of being overcome by it.

Dan.

98cwitr said:

I don't consider myself "saved" but why wife says she is convinced she is. That kind of assurance, I suppose, is comforting. It bothered her a lot while we were dating and I would talk to her about the reasons. It is up to God to do the saving, to measure faith, to give someone a new heart (Ezekiel 36). I still believe, I know there is a God and His Son is Jesus the Christ. I believe fully in the Nicene Creed. She worries about me telling the kids (we don't have any yet), but maybe by then my salvation will be revealed. As long as there is air in my lungs I think there's a chance.

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98cwitr said:

I don't consider myself "saved" but why wife says she is convinced she is. That kind of assurance, I suppose, is comforting. It bothered her a lot while we were dating and I would talk to her about the reasons. It is up to God to do the saving, to measure faith, to give someone a new heart (Ezekiel 36). I still believe, I know there is a God and His Son is Jesus the Christ. I believe fully in the Nicene Creed. She worries about me telling the kids (we don't have any yet), but maybe by then my salvation will be revealed. As long as there is air in my lungs I think there's a chance.

Click to expand...

There is a saying in my tradition - I was saved, I am being saved, and I believe that, God willing, I will be saved. Perhaps that model might fit you more? Initial regeneration through God's grace (I was saved), choosing to follow God every day and grow to be more like Him (am being saved), and persevering in your journey so that, at the end of your life, you still will be following God, and thus be saved in the end (will be saved)?

I know this doesn't fit the Baptist model of salvation though.

ALL4 Christ. The Baptist model does not even come close to which I shall reveal this day. I doubt it if anyone is teaching this in this vein with this clarity. Because some of the teachings below belongs to the Gospel of Repentance while others belong to the gospel of perfection/Gospel of Grace of the Lord. (Acts)

First the real regeneration is receiving the promises of Eternal life at the hands of God. You will know it as Christ Himself will ask you what it is you desire and He will give it to you. So you can imagine before God says those words to any one...He is one hundred per cent sure that the person would not ask for anything that is not the will of God. Such as for example a hamburger for everyone that is hungry in the world...or to make every one healthy in the world. Jesus had that power...and yet did not feed the whole world nor healed to the whole world. Because these things (hunger, sickness and diseases) as awful to us as it can be...serve a purpose for God to the best outcome of all the souls even if we do not see it or make sense to those who are still the natural man.

The regeneration is about changing the natural man into the Spiritual man ...also called Born of GOD. Emulating Jesus is to become a poor counterfeit of Him. Every man should walk in his own path as given to Him by the Spirit of God. Those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law (Gal) and are called Sons of GOD (Rom). So you see many claim this regeneration and are still powerless Spiritually. Having a new attitude or point of view is not regeneration. Do not get confused by the many false creeds being taught today.

The best deception that I know of ...from Satan is teaching that people are saved (according to Christian dogma) when they aren't according to God...to make Christians believe that they are born of God even in their sins...or use other fancy terms meaning the same thing as being born of God and yet still be powerless spiritually.

1. The truth is those who are truly regenerated/ born of God/ born again/ translated etc...their voices are heard in heaven and answered.
2. The Truth is if one has not repented of all their sins while in this world ....they will go to the Grave in their sins...and are not saved.
3. The truth is That Salvation of the flesh is given free of Charge when we resurrect. Our Resurrected temple is forever sealed to our Spirit which is eternal...this is what makes our Bodies...EVERLASTING...this is the victory over death, diseases and hunger. For the just and the unjust. To get this gift by Grace all we have to do is to be born into this world. Satan and his angels have been denied this in one of the Spiritual battles in the best so a seal has been set to prevent them from being born into this world.
4. The truth is The Salvation of our Spirit is determined when ALL the books are open and we are judged from them. There are books of what we did as Teenagers for example...how we did as husbands and Fathers how well we bore the weight God put on our shoulders. Etc. The book of life is but one of the many books that shall be open on Judgment day.
5. The truth is that Grace of God for the wicked is time God gives them to repent before they are condemned by Justice and wrath fall on their heads.
6. The truth is that Grace of God for the righteous is the ability of God to see them as little children who are pure and holy before God.

Again those who are regenerated/born again/perfected...Their voices are heard in heaven....

Isaiah 65:24 - And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Isaiah 58:9 - Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

Hope this help.

dan.

All4Christ said:

There is a saying in my tradition - I was saved, I am being saved, and I believe that, God willing, I will be saved. Perhaps that model might fit you more? Initial regeneration through God's grace (I was saved), choosing to follow God every day and grow to be more like Him (am being saved), and persevering in your journey so that, at the end of your life, you still will be following God, and thus be saved in the end (will be saved)?

I know this doesn't fit the Baptist model of salvation though.

Click to expand...

Dan Bert said:

ALL4 Christ. The Baptist model does not even come close to which I shall reveal this day. I doubt it if anyone is teaching this in this vein with this clarity. Because some of the teachings below belongs to the Gospel of Repentance while others belong to the gospel of perfection/Gospel of Grace of the Lord. (Acts)

First the real regeneration is receiving the promises of Eternal life at the hands of God. You will know it as Christ Himself will ask you what it is you desire and He will give it to you. So you can imagine before God says those words to any one...He is one hundred per cent sure that the person would not ask for anything that is not the will of God. Such as for example a hamburger for everyone that is hungry in the world...or to make every one healthy in the world. Jesus had that power...and yet did not feed the whole world nor healed to the whole world. Because these things (hunger, sickness and diseases) as awful to us as it can be...serve a purpose for God to the best outcome of all the souls even if we do not see it or make sense to those who are still the natural man.

The regeneration is about changing the natural man into the Spiritual man ...also called Born of GOD. Emulating Jesus is to become a poor counterfeit of Him. Every man should walk in his own path as given to Him by the Spirit of God. Those who are led by the Spirit are not under the law (Gal) and are called Sons of GOD (Rom). So you see many claim this regeneration and are still powerless Spiritually. Having a new attitude or point of view is not regeneration. Do not get confused by the many false creeds being taught today.

The best deception that I know of ...from Satan is teaching that people are saved (according to Christian dogma) when they aren't according to God...to make Christians believe that they are born of God even in their sins...or use other fancy terms meaning the same thing as being born of God and yet still be powerless spiritually.

1. The truth is those who are truly regenerated/ born of God/ born again/ translated etc...their voices are heard in heaven and answered.
2. The Truth is if one has not repented of all their sins while in this world ....they will go to the Grave in their sins...and are not saved.
3. The truth is That Salvation of the flesh is given free of Charge when we resurrect. Our Resurrected temple is forever sealed to our Spirit which is eternal...this is what makes our Bodies...EVERLASTING...this is the victory over death, diseases and hunger. For the just and the unjust. To get this gift by Grace all we have to do is to be born into this world. Satan and his angels have been denied this in one of the Spiritual battles in the best so a seal has been set to prevent them from being born into this world.
4. The truth is The Salvation of our Spirit is determined when ALL the books are open and we are judged from them. There are books of what we did as Teenagers for example...how we did as husbands and Fathers how well we bore the weight God put on our shoulders. Etc. The book of life is but one of the many books that shall be open on Judgment day.
5. The truth is that Grace of God for the wicked is time God gives them to repent before they are condemned by Justice and wrath fall on their heads.
6. The truth is that Grace of God for the righteous is the ability of God to see them as little children who are pure and holy before God.

Again those who are regenerated/born again/perfected...Their voices are heard in heaven....

Isaiah 65:24 - And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

Isaiah 58:9 - Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am. If thou take away from the midst of thee the yoke, the putting forth of the finger, and speaking vanity;

Hope this help.

dan.

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I'm aware that it doesn't fit the Baptist definition. I choose an alternative church over the Baptist denomination partially because of my disagreements with that. Rather, I was suggesting an alternative view for 98cwitr that may (or may not) be compatible with his thoughts. I don't agree with many of your beliefs, though I do not hold the once saved always saved model. That said, I'm not planning to discuss the various models of soteriology / theology of our salvation here. I don't think the marriage forum is the right place for that.

It is okay to not agree with the teachings I give. Neither will the people take to the time to find out if they are true. Being powerless Spiritually does not matter...when we have hospitals and drugs and food and housing a functioning government etc.

It will matter when God takes it all away.

Dan.

All4Christ said:

I'm aware that it doesn't fit the Baptist definition. I choose an alternative church over the Baptist denomination partially because of my disagreements with that. Rather, I was suggesting an alternative view for 98cwitr that may (or may not) be compatible with his thoughts. I don't agree with many of your beliefs, though I do not hold the once saved always saved model. That said, I'm not planning to discuss the various models of soteriology / theology of our salvation here. I don't think the marriage forum is the right place for that.

Click to expand...

Dan Bert said:

It is okay to not agree with the teachings I give. Neither will the people take to the time to find out if they are true. Being powerless Spiritually does not matter...when we have hospitals and drugs and food and housing a functioning government etc.

It will matter when God takes it all away.

Dan.

Click to expand...

Just a clarification - I do not believe that it is ok to be powerless spiritually. I also have taken years to find out what I believe. I didn't just listen to what I was taught and not research it (and Mormonism was among the ones I considered and rejected).

That said, thank you for accepting my request to not debate here about soteriology. I don't believe that the marriage forum is the proper place for that.

There are many factors that decides if men and women are to have happiness and joy in this world or not. With 50% divorces in the first 14 years of so...should be a clue that whatever is taught today is not working nor enough. The first step in fixing this is how and where we get our truth as this will affect our Relationship with our spouse and also our relationship with God. If the Research was not done Spiritually, then you have fallen into the trap of letting your own knowledge of good and evil decide what is true. Truth is only from the Spirit of truth...and that is where we ought to get our truth.

Why is this necessary? Because in a marriage there may be a time for a man or a woman in order to save that marriage, He/she is required to bring down the power of God in it to judge between the spouses. This is done in extreme cases where one of the Spouse is so far gone...there is no other way than for God to send a wake up call. I was once put in that position with my wife.

For example how can people understand the difference between Conditional and Unconditional love if they have not the truth? The worldly philosophies out there being meted out today will not save Marriages.

For example in the days of Adam and Eve it was forbidden for man to ask a woman to marry Him. That they counseled their daughters to marry righteous people as their fist consideration. Why? Because it is forbidden to ask another to come under our Control. The woman must willingly do so. And so she should do it only with a righteous man. Look what Satan did with this tradition...changed it from good to evil. He Reversed the order. Today men ask women to marry them and use force over them in many cultures. This would have never happened if we had kept the old ways on this. Also both the man and the woman during the courtship use deceptions to make themselves more desirable to each other. This is part of using Conditional love.

I could teach lot but the people have not suffered enough yet...and when the people have had their fill of miseries and bad marriages and divorces...maybe they will be ready to listen and God will call many of us to re-teach all the laws on this. Also as for myself...I am forbidden from divorcing my wife. Since I have conditional love for her...(I understand) My love is not affected by what she does for me or not do for me. This removes fears of being rejected. By law she can divorce me...it is her right and God allowed society to divorce from each other. But one must remember law of men or not. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. For example if were to divorce her without receiving the go ahead from God....
and she re-married...her adulteries with her new husband would be in a large part on my head. Who teaches this stuff today?

That is all I will say for now...because who will believe even this little bit? after all according to Isaiah we are living in a day where Children are oppressors and women rule over men.

Until God resets all things as to what there once were...miseries, divorces, children growing up hurt and bent because of this...will need to go on.

I hope you understand a little bit where I coming from. Marriage relationship and divorces cannot be separated from the teachings of the Gospel that also affect our relationship with God.

dan

All4Christ said:

Just a clarification - I do not believe that it is ok to be powerless spiritually. I also have taken years to find out what I believe. I didn't just listen to what I was taught and not research it (and Mormonism was among the ones I considered and rejected).

That said, thank you for accepting my request to not debate here about soteriology. I don't believe that the marriage forum is the proper place for that.

Click to expand...

Dan Bert said:

There are many factors that decides if men and women are to have happiness and joy in this world or not. With 50% divorces in the first 14 years of so...should be a clue that whatever is taught today is not working nor enough. The first step in fixing this is how and where we get our truth as this will affect our Relationship with our spouse and also our relationship with God. If the Research was not done Spiritually, then you have fallen into the trap of letting your own knowledge of good and evil decide what is true. Truth is only from the Spirit of truth...and that is where we ought to get our truth.

Why is this necessary? Because in a marriage there may be a time for a man or a woman in order to save that marriage, He/she is required to bring down the power of God in it to judge between the spouses. This is done in extreme cases where one of the Spouse is so far gone...there is no other way than for God to send a wake up call. I was once put in that position with my wife.

For example how can people understand the difference between Conditional and Unconditional love if they have not the truth? The worldly philosophies out there being meted out today will not save Marriages.

For example in the days of Adam and Eve it was forbidden for man to ask a woman to marry Him. That they counseled their daughters to marry righteous people as their fist consideration. Why? Because it is forbidden to ask another to come under our Control. The woman must willingly do so. And so she should do it only with a righteous man. Look what Satan did with this tradition...changed it from good to evil. He Reversed the order. Today men ask women to marry them and use force over them in many cultures. This would have never happened if we had kept the old ways on this. Also both the man and the woman during the courtship use deceptions to make themselves more desirable to each other. This is part of using Conditional love.

I could teach lot but the people have not suffered enough yet...and when the people have had their fill of miseries and bad marriages and divorces...maybe they will be ready to listen and God will call many of us to re-teach all the laws on this. Also as for myself...I am forbidden from divorcing my wife. Since I have conditional love for her...(I understand) My love is not affected by what she does for me or not do for me. This removes fears of being rejected. By law she can divorce me...it is her right and God allowed society to divorce from each other. But one must remember law of men or not. What God has joined together let no man put asunder. For example if were to divorce her without receiving the go ahead from God....
and she re-married...her adulteries with her new husband would be in a large part on my head. Who teaches this stuff today?

That is all I will say for now...because who will believe even this little bit? after all according to Isaiah we are living in a day where Children are oppressors and women rule over men.

Until God resets all things as to what there once were...miseries, divorces, children growing up hurt and bent because of this...will need to go on.

I hope you understand a little bit where I coming from. Marriage relationship and divorces cannot be separated from the teachings of the Gospel that also affect our relationship with God.

dan

Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from. I agree that God is an integral part of our marriage - and I agree that a large part of the purpose of marriage is integral to our relationship with God and the relationship of our spouse to God (which extends to our salvation).

I just typically would approach this type of thread with discissing the particular parts of our beliefs that are directly related to our marriage. That said, thank you for explaining your viewpoint - it makes more sense as to why you were discussing that.