Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
No, we believe in grace and forgiveness..... for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.....especially me and even you.....

Yea but just because you have sinned in the past doesn't mean you can continue sinning. Its like telling a thief, oh you've stolen in the past, its ok, you will not be punished if you keep stealing the rest of your life. You have to stop sinning, hence repent. Not feel sorry, and keep committing wrong. You have to stop sinning. This is probably the most demonic theology that exists out there, that you can continue committing sins and still be saved.

Goatee · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Yea but just because you have sinned in the past doesn't mean you can continue sinning. Its like telling a thief, oh you've stolen in the past, its ok, you will not be punished if you keep stealing the rest of your life. You have to stop sinning, hence repent. Not feel sorry, and keep committing wrong. You have to stop sinning. This is probably the most demonic theology that exists out there, that you can continue committing sins and still be saved.

You obviously are looking at things a bit wrongly as nobody is saying that one should continue sinning! A true Christian / Catholic etc does not want to sin continuously. It is only because of the human make up that we unfortunately trip up and sin again. Deliberately sin? Mostly not i would say. It is in all probability through accidentally sinning. We are only human and this is why Jesus says we can be forgiven / forgive, many times. Obviously not 'Deliberately' sinning again and again!

Nobody can 'continue' to sin without a care and expect to be saved! One has to really want to stop. To be repentant. Sometimes, it can be hard to stop sinning the same old sins. Its only through the Grace of God that one can get help and stop sinning and gain forgiveness!

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

Rick Otto said:
I wouldn't call it a hierarchy, but there is definitely a division of labor and Jesus seemed to always place Himself under God the father's direction. So I would say they were equally divine and eternal.

It seems so, only after he had emptied himself of the Godhood status that he had before the incarnation and assumed the role of the suffering servant, to fulfill the prophesy of Deuteronomy.

civilwarbuff · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Yea but just because you have sinned in the past doesn't mean you can continue sinning. Its like telling a thief, oh you've stolen in the past, its ok, you will not be punished if you keep stealing the rest of your life. You have to stop sinning, hence repent. Not feel sorry, and keep committing wrong. You have to stop sinning. This is probably the most demonic theology that exists out there, that you can continue committing sins and still be saved.

The past includes anything that has just happened.....got angry at the guy who just cut you off?....Sinner. Download music without paying for it?....Sinner. Ogled that blonde woman in the really skimpy bikini (Florida Guy)?.....Sinner. Received too much change in a transaction and did not give it back?....Sinner. Not give the homeless guy the change in your pocket?.....Sinner. Never visited the sick or the prisoners?....Sinner. Now maybe you can begin to grasp grace and forgiveness....because we fail so many times every day....we cannot be perfect....we can only depend for our salvation upon the Blood of Messiah....and we must depend upon it every minute of every day.

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
The past includes anything that has just happened.....got angry at the guy who just cut you off?....Sinner. Download music without paying for it?....Sinner. Ogled that blonde woman in the really skimpy bikini (Florida Guy)?.....Sinner. Received too much change in a transaction and did not give it back?....Sinner. Not give the homeless guy the change in your pocket?.....Sinner. Never visited the sick or the prisoners?....Sinner. Now maybe you can begin to grasp grace and forgiveness....because we fail so many times every day....we cannot be perfect....we can only depend for our salvation upon the Blood of Messiah....and we must depend upon it every minute of every day.

Getting angry is not sin. The scriptures say, "be angry, and do not sin". Clearly you don't know what sin is. It is possible to live a life free of sin, if you stop breaking all the commandments of God and are born of God. Unless you are born of God, you can never actually stop sinning.

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
I didn't write this scripture,

Nor did I write this one,

Whoever is born of God cannot sin. Plain and simple. Paul was not sinning when he confronted Peter concerning circumcision, as we are all given a different measure of belief, and thus Paul had a greater measure of belief than Peter, and thus Peter then conceded with Paul on this matter. There was no sin here, just further evidence that even with these great apostles there is a variance in measure of belief even among them, and that we all ought to submit to each other just as even they.

So if you are still sinning, you do not yet belong to God.

Recieving the Spirit is part and parcel in first receiving Christ in your life. Paul would find throughout his 15 year ministry, that he started as a boastful Pharisees where he would say I am a Pharisee of Pharisee and my education is second to none, then five years later he would say that he persecuted the church and his education as a Pharisees is rubbish. Ten years later he would say that he is the world's greatest sinner.

Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners--of whom I am the worst. (1 Timothy 1:15)

Notice that the above verse was present tense to Paul, where he was imprisoned awaiting execution on his last days of ministry, where he would say his time of departure is near and he is ready to be poured out like a drink offering. (2 Timothy 4:6)

It seems the more Paul was santicifed by the Holy Ghost, the more that he would place himself under closer scrutiny, by seeing his filth more and more. It is a far cry from the beginning of his ministry where he would say.....

If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; 6as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless. (Philippians 3:4-6)

Being in Christ means that we are his spiritual prisoners as Paul would say (Ephesians 3:1). So immediately upon justification in Christ, the Holy Ghost enters that person's life and starts a life-long sanctification/rehabilitation process. As we walk as prisoners of Christ we are being rehabilitated inwardly by the Spirit and the more that we progress in this rehabilitation, the more that we look back and reflect upon our past and to loath the person of the world/flesh that we once were. So not sinning or not regarding oneself as a sinner, is proof positive that the person hasn't past base one yet and is still in denial of their sinful nature.

Simply put if one doesn't look at themselves as sinners presently as Paul did, whilst reflecting on their past, then they have yet to be sanctified to the point where they consider themselves as filth, just like Paul did towards the end of his ministry.

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

Not sinning as compared to not considering oneself as a sinner are two completely different things.

civilwarbuff · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
Getting angry is not sin. The scriptures say, "be angry, and do not sin". Clearly you don't know what sin is. It is possible to live a life free of sin, if you stop breaking all the commandments of God and are born of God. Unless you are born of God, you can never actually stop sinning.

1 Cor 2:14 really does apply to you....I don't expect you to understand any of this but we have to try.......
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
Mat 5:23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
Mat 5:24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

civilwarbuff said:
1 Cor 2:14 really does apply to you....I don't expect you to understand any of this but we have to try.......
Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said to them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 but I say unto you, that every one who is angry with his brother shall be in danger of the judgment; and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council; and whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of the hell of fire.
Mat 5:23 If therefore thou art offering thy gift at the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath aught against thee,
Mat 5:24 leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way, first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.
Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, while thou art with him in the way; lest haply the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.
Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou have paid the last farthing.
Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 but I say unto you, that every one that looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry, and ye gave me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink; I was a stranger, and ye took me in;
Mat 25:36 naked, and ye clothed me; I was sick, and ye visited me; I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink?
Mat 25:38 And when saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mat 25:39 And when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry, and ye did not give me to eat; I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in; naked, and ye clothed me not; sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not unto one of these least, ye did it not unto me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into eternal punishment: but the righteous into eternal life.

I'm not talking about that kind of anger, I'm talking about righteous anger, like the one I am feeling towards you right now for spreading lies that sins can still be committed and you will still be saved.

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

I consider myself a sinner and one that has brought shame to the Lord and the more and more I see the reflection of my past self, the more I loath that person of the flesh, who is still present today, albeit, now fully aware of what sin this person was capable of and still is, if he is not continually rehabilitated even unto death by the Holy Ghost. We are prisoners of Christ unto death, can we at least acknowledge this point at least.

Our genuine acknowledgment of who we really are is a step towards showing that our past wicked deeds are a thing of the past. Similar to a prisoner who spends time in jail, who then comes out a different person after he does time. This is what Paul meant to be prisoners of Christ, in that we consider ourselves dead to the world and are on spiritual parol whilst we are being rehabilitated. Our release is if we as Paul says finish the race and keep the faith even onto death. Jesus would say keep the faith even unto the death.

So the question is are we being rehabilitated or are we left onto our own devices, where our boastful mouths deny who we really are, that is, sinners through and through.

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
I'm not talking about that kind of anger, I'm talking about righteous anger, like the one I am feeling towards you right now for spreading lies that sins can still be committed and you will still be saved.

No one will tell his neighbour to know your God for all shall know him from the small to the greatest. We are not spiritual police, who have a right to prosecute sinners who are confessing them after reflecting on their past and present.

Did you know that our every thoughts that stray to and fro are considered sins as far as God is concerned. The fact that you say that you are angry is an uncontrolled outburst that is considered a spiritual sin, because you are not given the right to be angry in the first place towards the little in faith. Please consider me and other members little in faith compared to yourself, why then act to prosecute us for our weaknesses.

redleghunter · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
I'm not talking about that kind of anger, I'm talking about righteous anger, like the one I am feeling towards you right now for spreading lies that sins can still be committed and you will still be saved.

At what point did you become sinless?

Or do you see salvation as a 'yo-yo' effect. For example, you wake up and are justified before God, then are provoked to unrighteous anger or selfish anger by noon, thus becoming unsaved, then repent and are saved again by 1pm and this is a rinse and repeat all day.

What happens when you don't have enough time to repent before you die? Do you go to hell or is there some sort of purgatory in your theology?

Thanks.

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

redleghunter said:
At what point did you become sinless?

Or do you see salvation as a 'yo-yo' effect. For example, you wake up and are justified before God, then are provoked to unrighteous anger or selfish anger by noon, thus becoming unsaved, then repent and are saved again by 1pm and this is a rinse and repeat all day.

What happens when you don't have enough time to repent before you die? Do you go to hell or is there some sort of purgatory in your theology?

Thanks.

You become perfected when you are baptized in holy spirit. If you are never baptized in holy spirit in this life and have committed sins by which there is a charge against you, you will indeed go to hell, no matter how much you pray right before you die.

redleghunter · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
You become perfected when you are baptized in holy spirit. If you are never baptized in holy spirit in this life and have committed sins by which there is a charge against you, you will indeed go to hell, no matter how much you pray right before you die.

So you are sinless right now and never will sin again in your flesh? The apostles never even claimed such, even the apostle Paul.

How do you get the assurance you have not sinned?

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

redleghunter said:
So you are sinless right now and never will sin again in your flesh? The apostles never even claimed such, even the apostle Paul.

How do you get the assurance you have not sinned?

It's in the scriptures, and they taught these things. You people just ignore and twist those scriptures to justify your own wickedness. And think that by mere prayers of forgiveness that you will somehow be forgiven while you are still breaking the commandments of God.

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
It's in the scriptures, and they taught these things. You people just ignore and twist those scriptures to justify your own wickedness. And think that by mere prayers of forgiveness that you will somehow be forgiven while you are still breaking the commandments of God.

Wilful sin is a sin that questions one's regeneration or at least the person has started to be rehabilitated, if that is they have acknowledged the sin, otherwise if they count themselves sinless or done nothing wrong as the criminals who get locked up say, then that person is in pure denial.

Menial sins are our everyday sins, the mere fact that we are humans who have strayed thought, these are counted as menial sins. That is why we have our daily sacrifice in Christ for the covering of these menial sins that are committed. We are pardoned so long as we acknowledge them in our hearts and to confess them with our tongues as Paul did.

Having said that, I do however believe that a brother like you does not wilfully sin and who lives day to day with the challenges of menial sins and in this respect, you are a sinner like me and others who depend daily on the blood of Christ for the covering of our menial sins.

cgaviria · Feb 8, 2016

Berean777 said:
Wilful sin is a sin that questions one's regeneration or at least the person has started to be rehabilitated, if that is they have acknowledged the sin, otherwise if they count themselves sinless or done nothing wrong as the criminals who get locked up say, then that person is in pure denial.

Menial sins are our everyday sins, the mere fact that we are humans who have strayed thought, these are counted as menial sins. That is why we have our daily sacrifice in Christ for the covering of these menial sins that are committed. We are pardoned so long as we acknowledge them in our hearts and to confess them with our tongues as Paul did.

Having said that, I do however believe that a brother like you does not wilfully sin and who lives day to day with the challenges of menial sins and in this respect, you are a sinner like me and others who depend daily on the blood of Christ for the covering of our menial sins.

You have to take this further in regards to minial sins, which are "sins not leading to death", one can live perfect and not even commit menial sins, when one is baptized in holy spirit. I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

civilwarbuff · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

You mean correcting you, not resisting you, right?....with scripture, right?....while you replied with your opinion, right?......

civilwarbuff · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
People who say such things truly deserve death.

Then aren't we lucky you are not in charge of judgement day......?

Berean777 · Feb 8, 2016

cgaviria said:
You have to take this further in regards to minial sins, which are "sins not leading to death", one can live perfect and not even commit menial sins, when one is baptized in holy spirit. I am relieved that you are closer to the truth than this other person on here who was resisting me on even the sin of adultery, as if you could commit adultery and still be saved. Absolutely appalling, and it infuriates me that someone would say that, which could cause other babes in the faith to be lead astray. People who say such things truly deserve death.

No body deserves death friend. The wilful act of committing adultery and at the same time, professing to be true to Christ, is one that requires supplication through a contrite heart, which would be a turning point in the life of the one who commits it. If the person repeats the offense then the judgement is the Lord's to make. Is that person lost and does he/she have no inkling of a chance of being saved?

No, it will take longer for God to rehabilitate that person through trials and much tribulation. If the Lord makes a determination that the person has turned for the best before he/she dies, then that person is at the Lord's mercy.

I also do remember what the Lord ironically says........

On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

Notice there aren't any righteous because we are all in need of Jesus and so the ones who think that they are righteous in their own minds, are ones that do not require Christ. So in this life as sinners past, present or future, who knows, we are in need of Christ because we are fickle human beings who stray all the time.

Why The Trinity is a False Teaching - Summarized Doctrinal Reasons

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Jesus, please forgive me, a sinner.

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Thank You Jesus!

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