Jesus is not the original Greek or Aramaic pronunciation, so how can it save?

redleghunter said:

Not the SSPX version.

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Good point.....

civilwarbuff said:

Good point.....

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The SSPX does tolerate the idea of the Eastern Rite churches, albeit they reject changes that have undone certain "Latinizations" (not the use of Latin but the introduction into the Eastern sui juris churches of things like the Stations of the Cross, sacring bells and so on, which originated in the Western Rite; "Westernization" might be a better term). Since Vatican II the Eastern Catholic churches have been encouraged to de-Latinize, making their liturgy closer to the Orthodox. There is in the Ukraine a breakway group called the Society of St. Josaphat, which emerged in response and from what I understand is in alliance with the SSPX. Like the mainstream Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, they worship in Church Slavonic, but their rite preserves certain Latinizations that were reverted by the mainstream church, the worship of which is now more or less the same as the Ukrainian Orthodox (that is to say, like the Russian Orthodoc but with slightly dofferent music and the Slavonic "G" sounding more like "H").

Gogeta said:

Why risk your soul on an idea which contradicts the Bible?

You guys haven't provided a single verse that supports your position.

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As an Orthodox, you I expect would be the first to note that questions of pronunciation, liturgics and so on are ecclesiastical. So until my Bishop says there is a problem here, and stops himself saying "Jesus" when speaking in English, this does not concern me.

Gogeta said:

I go by the Bible, not people.

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Then, with respect, I fear you have departed in part from the doctrinal perspective of the holy Orthodox Church. Sola Scriptura was officially rejected by the Synod of Dositheus.

Gogeta said:

I really don't care about Churches. I go by the Bible.

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Well, are you aware your faith icon says "Eastern Orthodox"?

I have to confess that as an Orthodox I was somewhat chagrined by this thread; I had to answer some rather awkward questions from my friend @civiowarbuff about the history of Orthodoxy and our doctrines, in that based on this thread he was not, shall we say, unjustifiably alarmed.

Gogeta said:

I go by the Bible. Not people. Not churches.

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And that's fine. I would however very respectfully suggest you consider opening a thread in the Member Services Center to change your faith icon to as to better represent your Bible-only beliefs.

And just where do you think the Bible came from?

Gogeta said:

I go by the Bible. Not people. Not churches.

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Do you attend a church?

Gogeta said:

I go by the Bible. Not people. Not churches.

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Well. What does the bible say is the name of the Christ?

Gogeta said:

Per Acts 4:12, there is only 1 name that can save.

Jesus is not even close to the original Greek or Aramaic pronunciations.

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Why risk your soul on an idea which contradicts the Bible? You guys haven't provided a single verse that supports your position. You guys haven't provided a single verse that supports your position.

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When we pull scripture out of context we can make almost any verse say something that it doesn't.

Act 4:9 If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;
Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Notice that it says in verse 10 that it is by 'Him' that the man was made whole. V11, it is Him, not His name that is the stone which is become the corner stone. There is no salvation in any other than Him who is the corner stone.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

So we see that it is He, the Anointed One, that is the stumbling stone, the head of the corner, not His name. The one who believes in Him shall not be confounded.

It was not a name that hung on the Cross, it was not a name that shed blood for salvation. It was the blood of this man that justifies and sanctifies those who believe.

Gogeta said:

Per Acts 4:12, there is only 1 name that can save.

Jesus is not even close to the original Greek or Aramaic pronunciations.

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In China and at least some African countries it is Yesu; in Israel it is Yeshua, in Europe and offshoot countries it is Jesus. But answer me this question: if you are waiting in a queue and finally someone calls something what sounds like your name, but the person made a slight mistake in pronunciation, say they called you Steph-on Cor-mic instead of Stephen Cormac, would you sit silent there, though you really want to be processed in this place (just as Jesus really wants us to be saved)? Of course not, you will say "it's me". So also God. Some people treat God like it's an early version AI software, which only requires exact verbal input, aligned with specified accents. They forget that God is a person.

Wgw said:

And that's fine. I would however very respectfully suggest you consider opening a thread in the Member Services Center to change your faith icon to as to better represent your Bible-only beliefs.

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I have heard the "name" arguments from some Messianic sects and Messianic wannabes, but not in Orthodoxy.

One wannabe is that Micael Rood guy.

jason_delisle said:

What is the point of your op? What is your point? Why is knowing the name of God important? What are you trying to say about everyone who doesn't know the true name of God? Are they not saved because the asked "Jesus" to be their savior rather than "yeshua" or "Jahovah" or "Joseph". The true pronunciation of the name of God (YHWH) was long ago lost.

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Actually, it is not lost and every living creature with the breath of life in it says the manufacturers name with every intake and outlet of breath. It is said in the sound of our breathing,

Gogeta said:

Why risk your soul on an idea which contradicts the Bible?

You guys haven't provided a single verse that supports your position.

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John 1:1 says that in the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God. Verse 14 says that the word became flesh.

Before God the Son was born, the angel told Joseph to call him Jesus, because he would save people from their sins. When he grew up, he did just that.
Jesus was the human name the he - the eternal word, God the Son - was given. People spell and pronounce this name differently, but it refers to the same person, and he is the one who was born, was crucified and who saves.

redleghunter said:

I have heard the "name" arguments from some Messianic sects and Messianic wannabes, but not in Orthodoxy.

One wannabe is that Micael Rood guy.

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The Irmiaslavie idea represents an extreme exagerration of the legitimate benefits of hesychasm. It is basically a case of too much of a good thing.

Gogeta said:

Actually no, since Jesus is not in the original Greek.

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It refers to the same person.

If someone was reading the NT in French and they kept reading the name Pierre, that wouldn't mean that they had the wrong Bible or that the disciples were false. Pierre is French for Peter, Giovanni is Italian for John, something else is Spanish for Thomas, or Andrew.

The word that was made flesh was called Jesus.