Coverup of Vaccine-Autism Link: Top Doctor

LoAmmi said:

I don't care.

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Exactly.

LoAmmi said:

Because you always give exceptions to people who cannot medically do something. When I'm talking about someone exempted from it, I mean someone who will have a bad reaction to it, including a high percentage of death. Allergies or immune system problems. Other people have a less than 1% chance of anything even going wrong, much less bad enough for death.

It isn't discrimination. If you don't want to do it, your kid can be home schooled in my opinion. That is the consequence of your choice.

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if a kid goes to public school and gets sick or gets someone else sick
it does not really matter if the kid did not get a vaccination because of allergies or because his parents believed in crack-pot science, the result is the same

that is my point, your stance is not really based on science
it is based on being vindictive against people who you do not agree with

also as I pointed out, it is not just the people who think it is connected to autism
it is also just the fact that a certain number of people die from vaccines every day

Rhamiel said:

if a kid goes to public school and gets sick or gets someone else sick
it does not really matter if the kid did not get a vaccination because of allergies or because his parents believed in crack-pot science, the result is the same

that is my point, your stance is not really based on science
it is based on being vindictive against people who you do not agree with

also as I pointed out, it is not just the people who think it is connected to autism
it is also just the fact that a certain number of people die from vaccines every day

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My stance is based upon science. The first child CANNOT get it based upon medical reasons. The second child CAN get medically. That's science. You can disagree but you are wrong.

Rhamiel said:

if a kid goes to public school and gets sick or gets someone else sick
it does not really matter if the kid did not get a vaccination because of allergies or because his parents believed in crack-pot science, the result is the same

that is my point, your stance is not really based on science
it is based on being vindictive against people who you do not agree with

also as I pointed out, it is not just the people who think it is connected to autism
it is also just the fact that a certain number of people die from vaccines every day

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Do you have credible links to back up the claim "it's just the fact that a certain number of people DIE from vaccines every day"? Cause that doesn't sound true at all.

Butterfly99 said:

Do you have credible links to back up the claim "it's just the fact that a certain number of people DIE from vaccines every day"? Cause that doesn't sound true at all.

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There's a certain number of people who die drinking coffee. Or eating a cake. Or walking to the bathroom.

Some people will have a negative reaction to the vaccines due to not knowing they have an allergy or some other condition.

LoAmmi said:

My stance is based upon science. The first child CANNOT get it based upon medical reasons. The second child CAN get medically. That's science. You can disagree but you are wrong.

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true but the effects are the same for both kids
but you think one should be allowed in public schools and the other should not?
that tells me that you do not care about the effects
you just want to punish people who do not think like you

if it really was a concern about the science of the issue, you would exclude both children from public school because both children pose the same threat

LoAmmi said:

There's a certain number of people who die drinking coffee. Or eating a cake. Or walking to the bathroom.

Some people will have a negative reaction to the vaccines due to not knowing they have an allergy or some other condition.

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That's totally true that ppl die from things that are commonly used every day. I don't think there are that many ppl who have an allergy to the stuff in vaccines or some other condition that is so severe they DIE from it everyday. Cause I've talked about this in class cause of the stuff on here about vaccines making me interested. I go to a school for science & tech and our teachers really know their stuff so I trust them. What Rhamiel said just doesn't add up to what we we learned. That's why I wanted to know if he has a legit source to back that up.

Rhamiel said:

true but the effects are the same for both kids
but you think one should be allowed in public schools and the other should not?
that tells me that you do not care about the effects
you just want to punish people who do not think like you

if it really was a concern about the science of the issue, you would exclude both children from public school because both children pose the same threat

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Here's the thing. Scientifically the rest of the children being vaccinated protect the few children that cannot be vaccinated. That's why it isn't anything to do with punishing people. It's about understanding how vaccination works within a society and how everybody being vaccinated protects the few people who can't. Those who can should so that they can help protect others.

Butterfly99 said:

That's totally true that ppl die from things that are commonly used every day. I don't think there are that many ppl who have an allergy to the stuff in vaccines or some other condition that is so severe they DIE from it everyday. Cause I've talked about this in class cause of the stuff on here about vaccines making me interested. I go to a school for science & tech and our teachers really know their stuff so I trust them. What Rhamiel said just doesn't add up to what we we learned. That's why I wanted to know if he has a legit source to back that up.

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Ah, I missed the "everyday" thing. I'm sure some people do die due to vaccines every year, but more people would die due to the illnesses those vaccines cover.

LoAmmi said:

There's a certain number of people who die drinking coffee. Or eating a cake. Or walking to the bathroom.

Some people will have a negative reaction to the vaccines due to not knowing they have an allergy or some other condition.

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It sounds like there needs to be better screening and less shaming of parents with legitimate worries about whether their child will have an adverse reaction.

Tallguy88 said:

It sounds like there needs to be better screening and less shaming of parents with legitimate worries about whether their child will have an adverse reaction.

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How would you propose to do this for the small number of people who this might happen to?

Those parents still need to be shamed. If I were a dictator, their children would be stripped from them. Good thing I'm not, eh?

LoAmmi said:

How would you propose to do this for the small number of people who this might happen to?

Those parents still need to be shamed. If I were a dictator, their children would be stripped from them. Good thing I'm not, eh?

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I am not normally all that big on the idea of shaming ppl but you know I think you're right that sometimes it's what's deserved. Cause the consequences can be huge. Like Ella on here has had problems her whole entire life cause of super bad complications from chickenpox when she was a baby & couldn't be vaccinated yet cause she was too young. She almost died. She's 17 & still dealing with the health problems caused by that. The kid who gave it to her wasn't vaccinated on purpose. I don't understand why ppl even have kids if they're not going to take care of them. It makes me sad & kinda mad too tbh.

Butterfly99 said:

I am not normally all that big on the idea of shaming ppl but you know I think you're right that sometimes it's what's deserved. Cause the consequences can be huge. Like Ella on here has had problems her whole entire life cause of super bad complications from chickenpox when she was a baby & couldn't be vaccinated yet cause she was too young. She almost died. She's 17 & still dealing with the health problems caused by that. The kid who gave it to her wasn't vaccinated on purpose. I don't understand why ppl even have kids if they're not going to take care of them. It makes me sad & kinda mad too tbh.

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Interesting; sad situation...

Butterfly99 said:

I am not normally all that big on the idea of shaming ppl but you know I think you're right that sometimes it's what's deserved. Cause the consequences can be huge. Like Ella on here has had problems her whole entire life cause of super bad complications from chickenpox when she was a baby & couldn't be vaccinated yet cause she was too young. She almost died. She's 17 & still dealing with the health problems caused by that. The kid who gave it to her wasn't vaccinated on purpose. I don't understand why ppl even have kids if they're not going to take care of them. It makes me sad & kinda mad too tbh.

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To me it's like eating peanuts in an office you share with a person who has a peanut allergy. You're just showing disregard for the other people. I don't care if the parents are worried about whatever pseudo-science they think they understand. I don't think parents know what's best for their kid at every turn. Sometimes they're panicky, irrational beings that are wrong. And sometimes just because they provided the genetic material doesn't mean they get full control in a society.

hsilgne said:

"...the CDC is still not owning up to Dr. Thompson's charges that they found data that links the vaccine to a spike in autism. "The CDC is still not coming clean," Dr. Brownstein says. "They want to keep it quiet, but it's time the cover-up ended."

http://www.newsmax.com/Health/Headline/CDC-MMR-vaccine-coverup/2015/07/26/id/658993/

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I think a big plus would be that old wisdom many peoples mothers drilled into them as children growing up; if you can't say something positive don't say anything at all. Snarks in threads for snarks sake isn't what makes an article look bad....

I remember to this day when I was very young on a vaccine visit to the pediatrician. I'm sitting on the exam table waiting for the shot. I hate needles. The nurse brings the vial over to the doctor and I can see there's still quite a bit left in the bottle. The doctor hands the vial back to the nurse and says, no, I want a new vial for this child.

I thought that was the oddest thing but I still recall that.

I think of the impact that would occur if everyone concerned in this issue, from the pharmaceutical companies on down, admitted to a link between autism and vaccinations.

There's no evidence!
Well no kidding. Not when the evidence sought is tantamount to the police policing themselves. The investigators investigating themselves.

All anyone has to do is watch TV for a day and note all the attorney firm commercials asking viewers if they ever took this or that drug that viewers saw advertised years or even months before.
Those attorney firms are asking those who suffered side effects to call because they could be entitled to a substantial award.

Then, wait for it and you'll see a pharmaceutical advertised. Likely the people touting the drug are actor portrayals. But after they advertise all the so called benefits of that new drug they run down the short and dirty list of potential side effects.
I watched one such commercial. One of the side effects was bleeding in the brain.
Another drug's potential side effects is lymphoma. (Lymphatic cancer)

Impossible for vaccinations to cause autism? When attorney firms can make millions for clients suffering pharmaceutical side effects? Imagine the liability for the thousands that suffer autism.

And what are the numbers of those who are anti-vaccine having autism diagnosis compared to those that were vaccinated and diagnosed as such?

What's the upscale of autism diagnosis over the last say 50 years?
So called, "Big Pharma" , is one of the largest lobbies in politics.
No evidence? What are autism suffers if not evidence of something?

Rick Otto said:

Yeah. I've seen it.
Penn & Teller offer unassailable credibility.

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In fairness it isn't like they don't forewarn viewers of that or the content of their program via its title.

Tallguy88 said:

I asked my doctor friend and she said vaccines do not cause autism. And also said that even if they did, being autistic is better than being dead from the pox or whatever. But there is no link, so it's a non issue either way.

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Not at all.
Your doctor friend said what she said because it's the position of the AMA and all concerned. If she wants to keep her license she complies with policy.

Blondepudding said:

I think a big plus would be that old wisdom many peoples mothers drilled into them as children growing up; if you can't say something positive don't say anything at all. Snarks in threads for snarks sake isn't what makes an article look bad....

I remember to this day when I was very young on a vaccine visit to the pediatrician. I'm sitting on the exam table waiting for the shot. I hate needles. The nurse brings the vial over to the doctor and I can see there's still quite a bit left in the bottle. The doctor hands the vial back to the nurse and says, no, I want a new vial for this child.

I thought that was the oddest thing but I still recall that.

I think of the impact that would occur if everyone concerned in this issue, from the pharmaceutical companies on down, admitted to a link between autism and vaccinations.

There's no evidence!
Well no kidding. Not when the evidence sought is tantamount to the police policing themselves. The investigators investigating themselves.

All anyone has to do is watch TV for a day and note all the attorney firm commercials asking viewers if they ever took this or that drug that viewers saw advertised years or even months before.
Those attorney firms are asking those who suffered side effects to call because they could be entitled to a substantial award.

Then, wait for it and you'll see a pharmaceutical advertised. Likely the people touting the drug are actor portrayals. But after they advertise all the so called benefits of that new drug they run down the short and dirty list of potential side effects.
I watched one such commercial. One of the side effects was bleeding in the brain.
Another drug's potential side effects is lymphoma. (Lymphatic cancer)

Impossible for vaccinations to cause autism? When attorney firms can make millions for clients suffering pharmaceutical side effects? Imagine the liability for the thousands that suffer autism.

And what are the numbers of those who are anti-vaccine having autism diagnosis compared to those that were vaccinated and diagnosed as such?

What's the upscale of autism diagnosis over the last say 50 years?
So called, "Big Pharma" , is one of the largest lobbies in politics.
No evidence? What are autism suffers if not evidence of something?

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Well said.
After reading the previous post, I googled causes of peanut allergy. Hoping for credibility, I went to the Mayo Clinic site, but instead of telling me the cause of the allergy, they gave only the causes of reaction. It was the same thing site after site, until I came to "less credible" sources that are more holistic.
I gave up looking for a peanut allergy - vaccine connection that would get any traction here.

That was a good observation about the 'fox guarding the henhouse' and investigating himself.

Blondepudding said:

Not at all.
Your doctor friend said what she said because it's the position of the AMA and all concerned. If she wants to keep her license she complies with policy.

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I don't think that's true at all. Do you have any proof that a Dr. would lose her license just for disagreeing with the AMA policy?

LoAmmi said:

How would you propose to do this for the small number of people who this might happen to?

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Figure out what the triggers are and test for them. See if there is a family history. Be more cautious in administering vaccines (smaller doses spread out, for example). Only mandate for the most serious diseases, not every disease for which there is a vaccine (the rest being optional or dependant on the situation). Delay some vaccinations until the immune system is stronger.

There's plenty that can be done, and may actually be done as far as I know. But this 'everyone should be vaccinated for everything and you're evil for questioning it at all' mentality needs to stop.

Those parents still need to be shamed. If I were a dictator, their children would be stripped from them. Good thing I'm not, eh?

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It's a known fact that vaccines kill people. Not many people, and it's a smaller proportion than would die without vaccines. But they will die. It's entirely reasonable for parents to be precautious and insist that everything is done as safely and that their children are going to be okay with receiving the vaccines.

What we don't need is hysterical reactions like saying parents should have their children taken from them because they don't get them vaccinated. Ultimately, they are trying to protect their children. While they may be misguided in what they believe, the intent is still good. Education is the key to fight anti-vaxers, nor threats. And more research into decreasing the odds of negative reactions to vaccines to easy the worries of those with legitimate concerns.