Why do you believe in the trinity when God and his word is simple

Der Alter said:

So you address 1-2 words and ignore everything else. The scholarship I posted is the most recent, more recent than NSRV. You "graciously" said "I could agree with NIV except for “Who, being in very nature God,”" placing your assumptions/presuppositions over Greek scholars with years of study. You quoted Strong's which has been found to have about 15,000 errors or omissions. Here are three lexicons which contradict your conclusion, none of them say "similar." When trying to determine the correct definition of a Bible word one should review as many references as possible instead of seeking out one which supports one's preconceptions.

ἴσος isos
Thayer Definition:
1) equal, in quantity or quality
Part of Speech: adjective
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: probably from G1492 (through the idea of seeming)
Citing in TDNT: 3:343, 370
G2470

Liddell, Scott, Jones Lexicon
ἴσος, η, ον,
ἶσος and ἔϊσος (v. infr.); Cret., Arc. ϝίσϝος GDI 4998ii2, 4982.2, Schwyzer 665, cf. γισγόν· ἴσον, Hsch.; later ἵσος Schwyzer 708a(1) (Ephesus, iv B.C.), Tab.Heracl. 1.175, etc.: —I
1. equal in size, strength, or number, c. dat., κύματα ἶσα ὄρεσσιν Od. 3.290, etc.; freq. of appearance, like, ἶσος ἀναύδῳ 10.378; ἶσος Ἄρευι Sapph. 91 (dub.); ἴσος θεοῖσιν Ead.2.1: freq.abs., ἴσην.. βίην καὶ κῦδος Il. 7.205; ἶσον θυμὸν ἔχειν to be of like mind, 13.704, 17.720: neut. as Adv., ἶσον ἐμοὶ φρονέουσα 15.50; θεοῖσιν ἶσ' ἔθελε φρονέειν 5.441, cf. 21.315, etc.; ἴσος τινὶ τὸ μέγαθος, ὕψος, Hdt. 2.32, 124; τὸ μῆκος, τὸ πλάτος, X. An. 5.4.32; ἀριθμόν E. Supp. 662; ἴσα τὸν ἀ. Pl. R. 441c; ποτὴν ἴσον equal in flight of song, Alex.Aet. 5.5; ἴσον, τό, copy of a document, PLond. 3.1222.5 (ii A.D.), etc.: with dat. pers. in place of an object of comparison, οὐ μὲν σοί ποτε ἶσον ἔχω γέρας (i.e. τῷ σῷ γέραϊ) Il. 1.163; τοῖσδ' ἴσας ναῦς (i.e. ταῖς τῶνδε) E. IA 262 (lyr.); ἴσα τοῖς νῦν στρατηγοῖς ἀγάθ' εἰργασμένους D. 13.21: folld. by a relative word, ἐμοὶ ἴσον.., ὅσονπερ ὑμῖν the same to me as to you, Ar. Ec. 173; τὰ ἐκεῖ ἴσα, ὥσπερ τὰ ἐνθάδε Lys. 19.36 codd. (fort. σᾶ) ; τὰ ἴσα ὅσαπερ.. Lex ap. D. 23.44; ἴσον.. ὅπερ Pl. Erx. 405b.

Buaer, Arndt, Gingrich, Danker Lexicon
ἴσος( Hom. +; inscr. , pap. , LXX , Ep. Arist. , Philo ; Jos. , Ant. 10, 131, C. Ap. 2, 35; Sib. Or. 5, 3) equal in number, size, quality travgoi B 7:10. to; mh`ko" kai; to; plavto" kai; to; u{yo" aujth`" i[sa ejstivn Rv 21:16 . hJ i[. dwreav the same gift Ac 11:17 . th;n ajgavphn tini; i[. parevcein show the same (degree of) love 1 Cl 21:7. Of testimony given by witnesses consistent Mk 14:56 , 59 . i[son poiei`n tinav tini treat someone equally w. someone else ( Polyb. 2, 38, 8; 2 Macc 9:15 aujtou;" i[sou" jAqhnaivoi" poihvsein ) Mt 20:12 . eJauto;n tw`/ qew`/ make oneself equal to God J 5:18 ( cf. Phil o, Leg. All. 1, 49 i[so" qew`/ ).— Subst. ta; i[sa an equal amount ( PRyl. 65, 7 [I BC ] eij" to; basiliko;n ta; i[sa) ajpolabei`n ta; i[. receive an equal amount in return Lk 6:34 .—The neut. pl. i[sa (like the neut. sing. i[son ) is used as an adv. ( Hom. +; Diod. S. 1, 89, 1; Wsd 7:3 ) w. dat. ( Demosth. 19, 314; oft. Philostrat. [ Schmid IV 48]; Himerius , Or. 20, 4 W. i[sa poihtai`" ; PTebt. 278, 33 [I AD ]; Job 11:12 ; 30:19 ) i[sa ei\naiv tini Phil 2:6 be equal with someone
( i[sa ei\nai as Thu. 3, 14, 1; i[sa qew`/ as Dionys. Byz. §24 p. 12, 14; §41 p. 17, 12; Himerius , Or. [Ecl.] 3, 20. Cf. Bl-D. §434, 1; W-S. §28, 3. Aeschyl. , Pers. 856 ijsovqeo" of a king, Philod. , Rhet. II p. 57, 11 Sudh. of a philosopher; Nicol. Dam. : 90 fgm. 130, 97 Caesar to;n i[sa k. qeo;n timwvmenon ; 117; Ael. Aristid. 46 p. 319 D.: ejx i[sou toi`" qeoi`" ejqaumavzeto). ejx i[sou ( Soph. , Hdt. et al .; Dit., Syll. 3 969, 84; pap. ) equally, alike Pol 4:2.—GStählin, TW III 343-56. M-M. B. 910.*
​

As for morphe it is used twice in Philippians 2:6 morphe of God and morphe of a servant. Was Jesus actually literally a servant or was Jesus only "outward appearance, external appearance, form (outward expression), the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision" of a servant? A form of the word "morphe" occurs in Romans 12:2. Did Paul want Christians to be actually, literally transformed, changed or was Paul telling them pretend, to only appear to be changed?

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed [μεταμορφόω] by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

G3339 μεταμορφόω metamorphoō
Thayer Definition:
1) to change into another form, to transform, to transfigure
1a) Christ appearance was changed and was resplendent with divine brightness on the mount of transfiguration
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G3326 and G3445
Citing in TDNT: 4:755, 607
​

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Verse 7 says in the form of a servant, not in the form of a man. Here servant does not refer to human nature, but position, or attitude. It's not saying he took on the form/nature of a man, so why are you forcing the nature of God? So, anyone can say anything they like, but the passage itself bares this out.

Mark 16:12 My paraphrased: He appeared to the eyes, in another outward appearance to two of them, then what he appeared to the eyes of Mary Magdalene.

Whether G3444 morphḗ were to speak of his preexistence, or not, it does not mean very nature. If you did believe it speaks of Jesus preexistence as God, then it could be referring to his nature, but the word itself does not mean that. And it still would not mean Jesus was God the person himself, for God is the eternal Spirit, angels are eternal spirits, their bodies/spirits are the very nature of God, but they are not God.

So, it does not matter how you wish to interpret this verse. We have to use ALL scripture, and I know from experience most don't. Jesus did exist before his birth in a sense, but not as a person, for the word became flesh, and that word was God The Father. That word came forth from God the Father, and Jesus came into being. John 1:1 and 14, by themselves, an argument could be made either way as to Jesus preexisted as a person. We've all seen it, many denomination gather a bunch of scriptures and make a doctrine out of them, but there is usually clear scripture that completely contradicts. There are some passages, that could be read in more then one way. So, we have to be sure we not only gather all scripture together, but dig deep, finding the sense of what is being said, and aware of context, and doesn't hurt to look up meaning of words.

In Romans 12:2, G3339 metamorphoó (is a Verb), and does not carry quite the same meaning.

What is the meaning here...?

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed [3445. morphoó (Verb) - fashion, shape, mold (Cognate: 3445 morphóō (from 3444 /morphḗ (Noun), "form embodying inner essence") – properly, taking on the form that properly embodies a particular inner-essence. ] in you,

Does this mean we literally become Christ himself? Or, we will become in very nature God, on earth? Or, is it referring to inner quality, character?

I'm going to have to disagree with the NIV, for again, scripture itself bares this out.

Albion said:

Yes, that's reasonable enough. At bottom, what matters is the testimony of Scripture, and it gives ample evidence of Christ being both God and Man.

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Hi Albion,

And that is also my personal experience with Jesus. Both God and man.

LOVE,

Der Alter said:

God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. Nothing is impossible for God.

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True, but He will not duplicate Himself!

Righttruth said:

True, but He will not duplicate Himself!

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Hi,

And He has not duplicated Himself. Well at least I only ever saw One God.

LOVE,

Hi,

When seeing God, God was very very very Trinitarian, and then some.

But that is God as God, and dealing with Each Member of The Trinity, Who Seemingly Act as One Entity Then, Individually, Each of Them Has a Distinct Personality.

I know. Even experiencing God, visually, and in all my senses, dealing with Them, as God, and dealing with Them Individually is tough.

The Distinction is Tough. I had to work on it for years, with various exposures to Them over a more than two year period.

Each encounter told me something about God, as an Entity, Job or Function, and not Individuals, even though there were always Three of Them, when They are God, but, no separate Personalities were felt or seen by me, when seeing Them as God.

When Each of Them interfaces with me As Individuals, Their Personalites are sensed felt heard, but Their Diety-ness Is not felt, even though That is always there also, I say.

Personally they are persons, in all my interactions with Them.

And when I saw them as God, no Personalites were felt or seen.

Yes it was quite quite quite powerful, and hurt like crazy, emotionally, when they merely changed from Visible to me, to then felt only.

Since then, I can always feel Them, when I need to, or when They Want me to know something important.

I don't control That. They Do, and it Is Quite Merciful. Quite Quite Quite Merciful, and then even, much more than that.

So, yes God is tough to understand. From my first Treat of Them, to more fully understanding Them like now for me, it took years.

I was treated to God visually, in January of 2006.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

And He has not duplicated Himself. Well at least I only ever saw One God.

LOVE,

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No man can see God and live!

Righttruth said:

No man can see God and live!

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Absolutely!

No man hath seen God at ANYTIME 1John 4:12

God could not die on the cross:


God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can s
ee 1Tim6:16

Righttruth said:

No man can see God and live!

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Hi,

Abraham did.

I think Job said he did.

Paul seems to have seen God.

I think there were 70 shown God by Moses also.

I am still typing. I live.

The church says that it happened to me.

Even with the Psychologists and Psychiatrists, there are no issues.

One of them even had others verify the effects on me, without my knowledge, but I was told of it.

So, either no man can see God and live, and some like me have seen God and live, and God does not Say Things That Are Not True, so either those passages are false, or there is something that is not understood by us yet.

In my work, I have never ever seen a single thing God Has said, that has Ever been untrue.

Abram saw God, and talked to Him.
Job did.
The church and the test they did, says that indeed I saw God.

Do I live though? In one sense, yours, yes I live.

In my sense of the word, NO.

I am alive to Him. That happened instantly, I think. I am though very dead, to this world.

Dead in this sense, is possible. I lost my life to me.

I gained a life in Him, I have a life in God, and other than being stuck here, my life in Him is more than wonderful.

My life, as I used to call it, did cease to exist instantly, not only from God, but also later, starting on the next day, in Every personage of God.

It was God first though.

Did Adam see God and live, in some sense of the word live?

Did Job?

Did Abraham?

If those 70 saw God with Moses one day, did they live?

Did Paul?

http://www.immanuelapproach.com/2012/08/15/people-in-scripture-who-saw-god-appendix-5/



LOVE,

74'israelite leaders saw the God of Israel( ex24:9-11)
They did NOT see the one TRUE God, for the bible does NOT contradict itself!

No man hath seen ( true) God at ANYTIME
Ijohn4:12

stuart lawrence said:

74'israelite leaders saw the God of Israel( ex24:9-11)
They did NOT see the one TRUE God, for the bible does NOT contradict itself!

No man hath seen ( true) God at ANYTIME
Ijohn4:12

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Hi,

There is only one God.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

There is only one God.

LOVE,

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Absolutely, there is only one TRUE God, that is the father according to Jesus, and he has never been seen by man according to Jesus, Paul and john. John6:46, john 17:3, 1tim 6:16, 1john4:12

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Abraham did.

I think Job said he did.

Paul seems to have seen God.

I think there were 70 shown God by Moses also.

I am still typing. I live.

The church says that it happened to me.

Even with the Psychologists and Psychiatrists, there are no issues.

One of them even had others verify the effects on me, without my knowledge, but I was told of it.

So, either no man can see God and live, and some like me have seen God and live, and God does not Say Things That Are Not True, so either those passages are false, or there is something that is not understood by us yet.

In my work, I have never ever seen a single thing God Has said, that has Ever been untrue.

Abram saw God, and talked to Him.
Job did.
The church and the test they did, says that indeed I saw God.

Do I live though? In one sense, yours, yes I live.

In my sense of the word, NO.

I am alive to Him. That happened instantly, I think. I am though very dead, to this world.

Dead in this sense, is possible. I lost my life to me.

I gained a life in Him, I have a life in God, and other than being stuck here, my life in Him is more than wonderful.

My life, as I used to call it, did cease to exist instantly, not only from God, but also later, starting on the next day, in Every personage of God.

It was God first though.

Did Adam see God and live, in some sense of the word live?

Did Job?

Did Abraham?

If those 70 saw God with Moses one day, did they live?

Did Paul?

http://www.immanuelapproach.com/2012/08/15/people-in-scripture-who-saw-god-appendix-5/



LOVE,

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Talking to God or listening or even experiencing His presence don't mean seeing God!

stuart lawrence said:

Absolutely, there is only one TRUE God, that is the father according to Jesus, and he has never been seen by man according to Jesus, Paul and john. John6:46, john 17:3, 1tim 6:16, 1john4:12

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Hi,

Adding your words is changing Scripture.

http://www.immanuelapproach.com/2012/08/15/people-in-scripture-who-saw-god-appendix-5/

The above is people who saw God, there are lots of them.

If you want to change scripture to suit your own needs or wants, that is fine. You can do that.

If you want to leave out sections of scripture to suit your needs, that is fine also.

Job saw God. Abraham saw God.

Now you want it to be, that they never saw God, not because they did not see God, but because what now?

Because the word True was not there?

Thus if true is not there to you, and a passage talks about God, that means that is no longer God?

You want people to follow you on that!

How many places Biblically, now can God be removed as He is no longer True?

Well every place True does not appear with God, according to you.

That is what you want to be true? That if God does not say He is the True God, then He isn't God then?

In the beginning when God created...., that is no longer correct now?


LOVE,

Righttruth said:

Talking to God or listening or even experiencing His presence don't mean seeing God!

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Hi,

Seeing God, is what happened to Abraham, and Job.

Seeing.

LOVE,

Hi,


The Lord Answers Job 38

38 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind....


Job said:
Job 42:5, I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear,
but now my eye sees you;

Job, with his own eyes, saw The Lord.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Adding your words is changing Scripture.

http://www.immanuelapproach.com/2012/08/15/people-in-scripture-who-saw-god-appendix-5/

The above is people who saw God, there are lots of them.

If you want to change scripture to suit your own needs or wants, that is fine. You can do that.

If you want to leave out sections of scripture to suit your needs, that is fine also.

Job saw God. Abraham saw God.

Now you want it to be, that they never saw God, not because they did not see God, but because what now?

Because the word True was not there?

Thus if true is not there to you, and a passage talks about God, that means that is no longer God?

You want people to follow you on that!

How many places Biblically, now can God be removed as He is no longer True?

Well every place True does not appear with God, according to you.

That is what you want to be true? That if God does not say He is the True God, then He isn't God then?

In the beginning when God created...., that is no longer correct now?


LOVE,

Click to expand...

John 6:46, 1 john4:12, 1 timothy6:16, john 17:3

stuart lawrence said:

John 6:46, 1 john4:12, 1 timothy6:16, john 17:3

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Hi,

Yes, those are true, but you still don't understand God. If you did, never would those passages stumble you.

With everyone it seems who know God correctly, you fail to listen.

Even one who has seen God, makes no difference to you.

We all get the message. And the message is not about God not being Trinitarian. He Is.

It is something else.

I see no reason to be here anymore.

This is probably good-bye.

LOVE,

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Seeing God, is what happened to Abraham, and Job.

Seeing.

LOVE,

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Please quote the verses in support of your thinking.

katerinah1947 said:

Hi,

Yes, those are true, but you still don't understand God. If you did, never would those passages stumble you.

With everyone it seems who know God correctly, you fail to listen.

Even one who has seen God, makes no difference to you.

We all get the message. And the message is not about God not being Trinitarian. He Is.

It is something else.

I see no reason to be here anymore.

This is probably good-bye.

LOVE,

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As peter said:

Ww must obey God rather than men Acts5:29

I have asked you questions previously you could not answer. So I rarely chat with you now.
It is easy to have beliefs, but when you cannot answer questions concerning them it shows the weakness of your beliefs
The same as you cannot now address the scriptures placed before you
LOVE

stuart lawrence said:

As peter said:

Ww must obey God rather than men Acts5:29

I have asked you questions previously you could not answer. So I rarely chat with you now.
It is easy to have beliefs, but when you cannot answer questions concerning them it shows the weakness of your beliefs
The same as you cannot now address the scriptures placed before you
LOVE

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Hi,

I have left this thread but wanted to see where you left things.

You have left things with me being deceived, like Eve was.

It is now your job, to be like Jesus. You must reject me and let God deal with me.

Adam did not trust, that God would somehow make things work out with Eve, who it sounds like he cared a great deal for.

Another of the mistakes he made hurt women for all time, so far.

Knowing full well that she was fooled, he touched the apple by taking it from her. That alone, was enough. He then ate it to match her.

Always, it is said in the Bible, that he knew she was wrong.

What would Eve rather that he would have done?

She would rather he told her the truth. He did not.

Women today need more from their men, than mere words. They need more from God than mere words.

Both, from God and man, women have to have things shown and shown again and proven.

Adam by knowingly eating that Apple, hurt women also for all time, up to the present.

Be like Jesus now, not Adam.

I have been deceived you say. I have been fooled.

I accept your thoughts, and for you accept the fact that you might be right, as I STILL CAN BE FOOLED.

God has never taken away that women can be fooled that I know of.

Be Jesus now, and not Adam, for all of mankind, not just future generations of women.

You know, that I do not know God. You know that I have been fooled. You know that you have not been fooled.

Be Jesus, not Adam please. Let God correct me, and He has and He will.

It is no longer your job to do that.

Remember, God did not disappear then, with Eve. He punished her. I accept God and whatever God does and wants to do with me.

It is not right for You, anymore, as you have told me of my error.

It is now up to God, to tell me, that indeed I have been fooled.

I await him now. Him.

LOVE,