Prosperity > is our emphasis scriptural?

de1929 said:

I think you believe in OSAS, once saved always saved. I also believe OSAS.

One of the idea about prosperity gospel / wof is to lure unbeliever to receive CHRIST. That is still OSAS compliance right ? later on if the newborn believer change to other denominations is another concern.

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I believe in HS. Hope Saves.

Extraneous said:

I believe in HS. Hope Saves.

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Hope saves ? so JESUS saves no ?

de1929 said:

Hope saves ? so JESUS saves no ?

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Yes to both questions

Extraneous said:

Yes to both questions

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Dude, this is christian forum. It is expected for you to believe that JESUS saves.

de1929 said:

Dude, this is christian forum. It is expected for you to believe that JESUS saves.

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I do believe.

Extraneous said:

I do believe.

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Jesus and hope are 2 different things

Extraneous said:

Again, you seem to be suggesting that the poor are cursed.

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You know, I've addressed this claim about four times now. It is getting irritating that you keep accusing me of this same mistruth.

I am not suggesting that the poor are cursed. I am saying that people, not necessarily the poor, choose to walk away from the blessing and walk instead in the curse. God has told us it is our choice: blessing or curse.

If you feel that the statement quoted above is true, then read my words here again. And again if necessary. Until you understand the difference between the two.

You don't have to accept it as the truth that you believe. You can believe, if you so do (which I don't think you do), in the statement quoted above. But I do not.

Poverty certainly comes out of the curse. People who embrace poverty are walking in the curse. The Bible is clear that when we walk in the blessing that God gives us prosperity. In fact it is His hope for us.

Lets look at the scripture you used.

ABM said:

28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’

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I don't think that the Lord is referring to actual earthly wealth. Its an analogy.

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Well, it is a parable. Thus, certainly an analogy. But it certainly includes wealth. It is anything of value that the Lord entrusts to us. This is a parable about mishandled resources.

Are you suggesting that money is NOT included? That if the Lord gives us monetary resources and we squander it that there will be no consequence?

Consider this below scripture below. This is talking about earthly wealth.

ABM said:

2 Corinthians 8:13 Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality.14 At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, 15 as it is written: “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”

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Most certainly. So to understand this let's first take a look at some other translations:


Interesting. The NKJV doesn't mention equality in any manner. The Amplified dies, but it is not an equality of the money being shared, but rather the burden being shared.

So to really understand this let's go to the source: the Greek.


In the Greek there is absolutely no concept for equality. There is a concept of sharing a burden.

The word above literally translated as "release" is anesis. It means rest, liberty or to be eased. The word above literally translated as "pressured" is thlipsis. It means tribulation, affliction, trouble, persecution, burdened, pressure, distress.

This is about sharing the burden of helping others. When you have plenty and others don't, you share. Later they will have plenty and you will be in need. They will share.

Verse 14 says exactly this. Now, your abundance meets their needs. Some day, their abundance will meet your needs.

If there was the equality that you speak of, then there would never be a need to be met, for the resources will be spread evenly and all will have the same amount. Scripture simply does not give this viewpoint. What scripture does say is that we all need to share the burden of helping the less fortunate.

So what of verse 15?


Let's understand it in context. Paul is writing a letter. In the very next page (chapter) of this letter Paul says:


Is it contrary? 8:15 seems to say that the money will be evened out. But 9:6 says that if you are lazy you reap lazy results; if you are diligent you reap diligent results.

If you take the context of chapter 8 and 9 we easily see that the message is how willing a person is to give.


What is being taught here. Well: Grace. That we don't look down on and ignore the less fortunate. Rather we give and we give with a happy heart. This is about helping, not equalizing.

Extraneous said:

I believe in HS. Hope Saves.

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I will must say hope is void without faith.
I know that Jesus Saves,and I realize your trying to make another point.

You can hope till the end ,but hope goes no further that what you believe.

Even if by your definition of hope was used in a transitive manner,as a expectancy it still would be conditional on faith in God not what your temporal mind expects.

now faith said:

I will must say hope is void without faith.
I know that Jesus Saves,and I realize your trying to make another point.

You can hope till the end ,but hope goes no further that what you believe.

Even if by your definition of hope was used in a transitive manner,as a expectancy it still would be conditional on faith in God not what your temporal mind expects.

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Psalm 39:4 “Show me, Lord, my life’s end
and the number of my days;
let me know how fleeting my life is.
5 You have made my days a mere handbreadth;
the span of my years is as nothing before you.
Everyone is but a breath,
even those who seem secure.
6 “Surely everyone goes around like a mere phantom;
in vain they rush about, heaping up wealth
without knowing whose it will finally be.
7 “But now, Lord, what do I look for?
My hope is in you.
8 Save me from all my transgressions;
do not make me the scorn of fools.

Man's equality?

This is illogical to believe such a damaged doctrine, and if someone is a new Christian it is most likely a opinion of a misguided teacher.

Galatians: 3. 13. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14. That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. 15. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. 16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 17. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


What was one aspect of the Blessing of Abraham ?

Genesis: 13. 1. And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south. 2. And Abram was very rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold.

And so many more had great wealth,I will not compile a list ,because you speak against wealth even with it being evident is it was part of God's blessing.

Extraneous said:

Psalm 39:4 “Show me, Lord, my life’s end
and the number of my days;
let me know how fleeting my life is.
5 You have made my days a mere handbreadth;
the span of my years is as nothing before you.
Everyone is but a breath,
even those who seem secure.
6 “Surely everyone goes around like a mere phantom;
in vain they rush about, heaping up wealth
without knowing whose it will finally be.
7 “But now, Lord, what do I look for?
My hope is in you.
8 Save me from all my transgressions;
do not make me the scorn of fools.

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You are taking scripture out of context.

Once again we do not worship riches ,or hoard them.
To be a blessing ,you need to be blessed.


Same Psalms but a very clear lesson : Psalm: 37. 3. Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. 4. Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. 5. Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

Extraneous said:

Psalm 39:4 “Show me, Lord, my life’s end
and the number of my days;
let me know how fleeting my life is.
5 You have made my days a mere handbreadth;
the span of my years is as nothing before you.
Everyone is but a breath,
even those who seem secure.
6 “Surely everyone goes around like a mere phantom;
in vain they rush about, heaping up wealth
without knowing whose it will finally be.
7 “But now, Lord, what do I look for?
My hope is in you.
8 Save me from all my transgressions;
do not make me the scorn of fools.

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You did not post your hope was in the lord,it seems you are adapting to banter.

now faith said:

You are taking scripture out of context.

Once again we do not worship riches ,or hoard them.
To be a blessing ,you need to be blessed.


Same Psalms but a very clear lesson : Psalm: 37. 3. Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed. 4. Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. 5. Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.

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Sorry, i didnt mean it that way. It was only an example of hope.

now faith said:

You did not post your hope was in the lord,it seems you are adapting to banter.

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Do i need to post that? It goes without saying.

Considering your ideology on equality, it would save time due to a lack of clairvoyance here.

Extraneous said:

Sorry, i didnt mean it that way. It was only an example of hope.

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I do not want to give you the impression that we do not enjoy guest here.

If I seem sarcastic it's not to offend you, simply trying to bring clarity and encourage you in Christ.

One thing I noticed is so many different Bible verisions being used ,get confusing as well.

Try The King James.

now faith said:

Considering your ideology on equality, it would save time due to a lack of clairvoyance here.

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No clairvoyance needed.

now faith said:

I do not want to give you the impression that we do not enjoy guest here.

If I seem sarcastic it's not to offend you, simply trying to bring clarity and encourage you in Christ.

One thing I noticed is so many different Bible verisions being used ,get confusing as well.

Try The King James.

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I have read multiple versions, and i dont see a need to focus on just one any longer. I already know what it says, and there are not many word definitions that i care to debate any more. The word isn't that complicated that i need to argue words. I been there.

If I would ever arrive at the top of a mountain, I would realize I had only two choices.

1 To stay at the top and starve.
2 To go back the way I ascended the mountain top.

So on my journey I want to take my time and enjoy the climbing, knowing I see more than a mountain on the way up.

de1929 said:

I think you believe in OSAS, once saved always saved. I also believe OSAS.

One of the idea about prosperity gospel / wof is to lure unbeliever to receive CHRIST. That is still OSAS compliance right ? later on if the newborn believer change to other denominations is another concern.

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Didn't I already say this recently? There is no such thing as a "prosperity gospel." Word-of-faith doesn't teach that.

Also de, we don't lure someone to Christ, do we? Satan can lure and entice someone away from Christ. But, to me... to lure someone is more like... leading a horse with a carrot dangling in front of him.