7 year peace treaty, what 7 year peace treaty?

BABerean2

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I thought all that happened in ad 70 when the jewish temple was completely destroyed.

Is this a wrong interpretation?
I dont really see someone else making yet another covenant when Jesus already made the new covenant with us. The israelites broke the old one. If you read Hebrews it explains all about the new covenant.

There is no mention of a peace treaty.

You are correct. Modern Dispensational Theology has taken Daniel 9:27, which is the New Covenant from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and spoken by Christ in His own words at Matthew 26:28 and turned it into a treaty broken by an antichrist, not in the chapter, by adding a manmade "gap", not mentioned by the angel Gabriel.

Are we to believe that the angel Gabriel came to deliver a prophecy about the Messiah but "forgot" to mention the New Covenant found in Jeremiah?

Most of the modern evangelical Church has lost sight of the New Covenant found "now" in effect at Hebrews 8:6. It is also the covenant in Romans 11:27. It is not waiting on a future fulfillment. It is the "everlasting" covenant in Hebrews 13:20.
It is the Blood covenant we celebrate each time we have the Lord's Supper.

The following comes from the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America.

.....................................................

Daniel 9:27


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
.........................................................

Many would be shocked to discovered that there is no 7 year tribulation period mentioned anywhere in the text.
It comes from the false interpretation of Daniel 9:27 or by adding together two of the references to the 3 1/2 year period of Great Tribulation.

The only thing more powerful than the Bible or history, is manmade tradition.
Many would rather make a personal attack upon you than let go of their long held doctrine.


Dr. Kelly Varner on Daniel chapter 9
 
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stephen583

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If you read the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24), which describes the events of the Tribulation Period in detail, you won't find "one single word" or phrase which describes anything like an "interval" of PEACE anywhere in the entire passage. So I've got to side with Jesus on this one. The passage in 1 Thess. 5:3, which refers to a time when people will say "Peace and safety" is obviously a "false' perception, because the Apostle Paul goes on to say in the verse, "sudden destruction follows".

As indicated by CF member "Goodbook" on the first page of this thread, 1 Thess. 5:3 refers to a false time of Peace and safety. Hats off to you Goodbook. Most people misinterpret this passage of Scripture completely, and even use it erroneously to support their questionable doctrine of a Pre Tribulation Peace Treaty. So I'll side with the Apostle Paul and Goodbook on this one too.

As for Daniel 9:27, it's quite a stretch to go from an agreement that confirms a "covenant", to an Arab-Israeli Pre Tribulation Peace Treaty. The Abrahamic Covenant isn't even mentioned by name in the verse. Nor is the Abrahamic Covenant, the only covenant agreement God made with mankind. The Noahic Covenant of Genesis comes immediately to mind as one example.

Just recently, In Paris France the United Nations passed an international agreement to "Save The Earth" from rising seas and melting polar caps and glaciers resulting from Climate Change, (December 12, 2015). Seems to me this agreement could be regarded as a "confirmation" of the Noahic Covenant inwhich God says he will never again flood the face of the earth and destroy all flesh, (Genesis 9:11-15).

Nor are the terms "sacrifice" and "oblation" used in Daniel 9:27 exclusive to Judaism as some scholars suggest. The term "sacrifice" is used numerous times in the New Testament to refer to Christian believers dedicating their lives (making sacrifice) to do the Will of God, just as Christ did in order to pay for all sin, (1 Cor. 15:3-4, Romans 12:1-2).

Although the term "oblation" does refer to the Jewish custom of a twice daily (morning and evening) prayer, which thanks God for creating the Earth and all the creations there in.. That same tradition was adopted by Christians of the Early Church, and is still observed by some Christians even to this day.

So the reference of "sacrifice" and "oblation" in Daniel 9:27, as it might popularly be believed to relate only to Levitical temple worship, is completely arbitrary and very probably wrong, if Christian theology is used to interpret the meaning of the text.

I should think, that should give everyone lots to consider.
 
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BABerean2

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The focus of chapter 9 is found in the summary of Daniel 9:24.

It is all about the coming Messiah.



Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Each and every one of the things in this summary were accomplished in the 490 years that ended in the first century.

The word "Messiah" means the anointed one.

The 69th week ended when John the Baptist placed his cousin Jesus in the Jordan River and He was anointed by His Father from heaven.

If I agree to paint your house "after" 69 days it will not be painted until the 70th day or after.
Jesus was cut off "after" the 69th week, which had to be part of the 70th week.

Do you think the angel Gabriel forgot to mention the week that the Gospel was taken to the Jews, before it went out to the Gentiles?

Also, remember that the New Covenant had been foretold by Jeremiah, before the angel Gabriel spoke to Daniel.
(Jeremiah 31:31-34)
.

 
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Douggg

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If you read the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24), which describes the events of the Tribulation Period in detail, you won't find "one single word" or phrase which describes anything like an "interval" of PEACE anywhere in the entire passage. So I've got to side with Jesus on this one. The passage in 1 Thess. 5:3, which refers to a time when people will say "Peace and safety" is obviously a "false' perception, because the Apostle Paul goes on to say in the verse, "sudden destruction follows".

As indicated by CF member "Goodbook" on the first page of this thread, 1 Thess. 5:3 refers to a false time of Peace and safety. Hats off to you Goodbook. Most people misinterpret this passage of Scripture completely, and even use it erroneously to support their questionable doctrine of a Pre Tribulation Peace Treaty. So I'll side with the Apostle Paul and Goodbook on this one too.

As for Daniel 9:27, it's quite a stretch to go from an agreement that confirms a "covenant", to an Arab-Israeli Pre Tribulation Peace Treaty. The Abrahamic Covenant isn't even mentioned by name in the verse. Nor is the Abrahamic Covenant, the only covenant agreement God made with mankind. The Noahic Covenant of Genesis comes immediately to mind as one example.

Just recently, In Paris France the United Nations passed an international agreement to "Save The Earth" from rising seas and melting polar caps and glaciers resulting from Climate Change, (December 12, 2015). Seems to me this agreement could be regarded as a "confirmation" of the Noahic Covenant inwhich God says he will never again flood the face of the earth and destroy all flesh, (Genesis 9:11-15).

Nor are the terms "sacrifice" and "oblation" used in Daniel 9:27 exclusive to Judaism as some scholars suggest. The term "sacrifice" is used numerous times in the New Testament to refer to Christian believers dedicating their lives (making sacrifice) to do the Will of God, just as Christ did in order to pay for all sin, (1 Cor. 15:3-4, Romans 12:1-2).

Although the term "oblation" does refer to the Jewish custom of a twice daily (morning and evening) prayer, which thanks God for creating the Earth and all the creations there in.. That same tradition was adopted by Christians of the Early Church, and is still observed by some Christians even to this day.

So the reference of "sacrifice" and "oblation" in Daniel 9:27, as it might popularly be believed to relate only to Levitical temple worship, is completely arbitrary and very probably wrong, if Christian theology is used to interpret the meaning of the text.

I should think, that should give everyone lots to consider.
Stephen in Daniel 9, what covenant is spoken of in the text? That's the one that will be confirmed. The covenant is the Mt. Sinai covenant, which the rules for Israel to follow were called the law of Moses. The confirmation of the Mt. Sinai covenant and the seven years are in 'Deuteronomy 31:9-13.


And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:

6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.

7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.

8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.

9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;

10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the LORD our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.

11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

13 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the LORD our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

14 Therefore hath the LORD watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the LORD our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.

15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.

17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.

18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.

19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.

20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
 
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BABerean2

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11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:



Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.




Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.




Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

.
 
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Douggg

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Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:



Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.




Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.




Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

.
BAB2, do you agree that there is no new covenant without Jesus having resurrected himself? Where in Daniel 9 does it say the messiah comes back alive? Of course the messiah cutoff is Jesus. But Jesus is not the one who confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle. The 7 years are in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. There is no reason for you to argue with that.

And in Daniel 9, it does not say new covenant, but "the" covenant, the one Daniel had referred to in his prayers.

It is not talking about the new covenant in Christ, which Jesus died on the cross and came back alive, the empty tomb. I designed my avatar to reflect the gospel message, the cross and the resurrection.
 
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BABerean2

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BAB2, do you agree that there is no new covenant without Jesus having resurrected himself? Where in Daniel 9 does it say the messiah comes back alive? Of course the messiah cutoff is Jesus. But Jesus is not the one who confirms the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle. The 7 years are in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. There is no reason for you to argue with that.

And in Daniel 9, it does not say new covenant, but "the" covenant, the one Daniel had referred to in his prayers.

It is not talking about the new covenant in Christ, which Jesus died on the cross and came back alive, the empty tomb. I designed my avatar to reflect the gospel message, the cross and the resurrection.

What you are ignoring is the plain text from Jeremiah chapter 31 which states that they had broken the Sinai covenant.


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

You have to remember that the prophecy in Jeremiah was given before the prophecy in Daniel.
Also, remember that Daniel was reading the Book of Jeremiah when the chapter starts.



Dan 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.


We also have the plain text of Hebrews chapter 8, which says that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant.


Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


It was the obvious interpretation to those who published the 1599 Geneva Bible.
........................................................................
Daniel 9:27


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.
.........................................................................

The prophecy from Daniel chapter 9 focuses on the coming Messiah.

He came to fulfill the law of Moses and bring in the New Covenant, in His Blood.



Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


I am still amazed that others insist Daniel 9:27 is not about the New Covenant of the Messiah.

Some even add an antichrist, not mentioned in the chapter, and a manmade "gap" of almost 2,000 years, in order to get their doctrine to work.

We should all ask... "Why the obvious resistance to the most logical interpretation of the verse?"


Who Confirmed The Covenant?
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023
.
 
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Douggg

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Daniel 9:27 the confirming of the covenant for one week can be found directly in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. It's a cycle establish by Moses regarding the Mt. Sinai covenant.

Some even add an antichrist, not mentioned in the chapter, and a manmade "gap" of almost 2,000 years, in order to get their doctrine to work.
There is no manmade gap. Does Jesus after a gap of almost 2000 years return to destroy the beast or not?
 
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BABerean2

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Daniel 9:27 the confirming of the covenant for one week can be found directly in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. It's a cycle establish by Moses regarding the Mt. Sinai covenant.


There is no manmade gap. Does Jesus after a gap of almost 2000 years return to destroy the beast or not?

The angel Gabriel did not mention a gap in the 490 years.
Daniel chapter 9 is about Christ's first Coming, not His Second.

How is the summary in Daniel 9:24 related to the passage from Deuteronomy and how is the passage from Deuteronomy related to the New Covenant of Christ found in Hebrews 8:6?
Hebrews 8:13 says the Old Sinai covenant is now obsolete.
The passage you gave from Deuteronomy is about the obsolete Sinai covenant.


Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.



70 Weeks of Daniel and the Jesuit deception...
 
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Douggg

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The angel Gabriel did not mention a gap in the 490 years.
Daniel chapter 9 is about Christ's first Coming, not His Second.

How is the summary in Daniel 9:24 related to the passage from Deuteronomy and how is the passage from Deuteronomy related to the New Covenant of Christ found in Hebrews 8:6?
Hebrews 8:13 says the Old Sinai covenant is now obsolete.
The passage you gave from Deuteronomy is about the obsolete Sinai covenant.


Dan 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined For your people and for your holy city, To finish the transgression, To make an end of sins, To make reconciliation for iniquity, To bring in everlasting righteousness, To seal up vision and prophecy, And to anoint the Most Holy.




70 Weeks of Daniel and the Jesuit deception...
Daniel 9 is to Daniel, his people Israel, and Jersualam - about Jesus's coming and being cutoff. And then goes to the end times and last 7 years.

The part of the Mt. Sinai covenant is that is obsolete is the different atonement actions the children of Israel were required to follow as a temporary measure until Jesus came.

God's promise that the land would be theirs forever was not made obsolete. Which Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is confirmation that God's gave the land to the Children of Israel forever.

Daniel 9, the 70 weeks, was not completed with the destruction of the temple and city - which you failed to mention is also in Daniel 9.

Everlasting righteous, in Jesus, has not been embraced by Daniel's people Israel, nor Jerusalem. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD without Jerusalem embracing Jesus. So how can the 70 weeks be completed?

So how much sense would it make for God to tell Daniel - which already at that time Jerusalem was destroyed and the people in exile - that Jerusalem would be destroyed again upon the completion of the 70 weeks? End of Daniel, his people, and Jerusalem? That's what you are trying to convince people of?
 
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BABerean2

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Daniel 9 is to Daniel, his people Israel, and Jersualam - about Jesus's coming and being cutoff. And then goes to the end times and last 7 years.

The part of the Mt. Sinai covenant is that is obsolete is the different atonement actions the children of Israel were required to follow as a temporary measure until Jesus came.

God's promise that the land would be theirs forever was not made obsolete. Which Deuteronomy 31:9-13 is confirmation that God's gave the land to the Children of Israel forever.

Daniel 9, the 70 weeks, was not completed with the destruction of the temple and city - which you failed to mention is also in Daniel 9.

Everlasting righteous, in Jesus, has not been embraced by Daniel's people Israel, nor Jerusalem. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD without Jerusalem embracing Jesus. So how can the 70 weeks be completed?

So how much sense would it make for God to tell Daniel - which already at that time Jerusalem was destroyed and the people in exile - that Jerusalem would be destroyed again upon the completion of the 70 weeks? End of Daniel, his people, and Jerusalem? That's what you are trying to convince people of?

If Daniel 9:24 contains the summary of things to be accomplished by the coming Messiah, which of the three sections of time laid out by the angel Gabriel are dedicated to the ministry of the Messiah?

7 weeks for rebuilding

62 weeks between the rebuilding until the appearance of the Messiah

7 weeks ???



Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Your interpretation, which is the antichrist interpretation used by Dispensational Theology and brought to America by John Darby about the time of the Civil War, contains no period of time for the ministry of Christ.

It also ignores the words of Jesus, where He speaks of the covenant with the many.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Worse yet is the claim by many that the age of Grace will end and God will go back to dealing with Israel under the Old obsolete Sinai covenant during a future time period of 7 years.
If I told you what I really think of this idea, they would remove me from this forum.
It is the same reaction that Jesus had to the money-changers in the temple.

.

 
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tranquil

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Barean you are always diverting away from the issue.

The Mosaic covenant is directly mentioned in Daniel 9 and Revelation 15. It clearly is present in the end times.

Daniel 9 is part of the strong delusion. It will support the antichrist as the messiah.

'Jerusalem' is destroyed. Start 70 weeks at repentance, at the 69th Shabua/ Shavuot from the creation of Israel (dusk June 11, 2016)

7 weeks later, comes the anointed one. (US president primary candidate: either Rep or Dem. Interesting because Sanders is Jewish and Cruz is possibly a crypto Jew from Cuba.)
55 weeks later, the anointed one (end of 62 weeks) is killed with a mortal head wound. (the 7th head of Rev 17) (this occurs at the 6th trumpet war) (Aug 19th, 2017, the US president is shot and resurrects.)
then the mortal head wound is healed and he becomes the 8th head of Rev 17. (this is the Revelation 13 beast from the sea
who is given 1260 days to continue - filling out the rest of the term.) The Revelation 13 beast / 8th head is the one that makes the 7 year covenant.

At the end of the initial 70 weeks, the "most holy" that are anointed is Zerubabbel and Joshua, starting the 1260 days of the 2 witnesses.

The false prophet comes (possibly the false prophet is the next president after this upcoming one) and says to worship the prior US president) and sets up the image 3.5 years later in 2021.
 
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BABerean2

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Barean you are always diverting away from the issue.

The Mosaic covenant is directly mentioned in Daniel 9 and Revelation 15. It clearly is present in the end times.

Really...


Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.



Gal 4:25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

Gal 4:30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

Gal 4:31 So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.



Heb 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,



Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

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Douggg

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If Daniel 9:24 contains the summary of things to be accomplished by the coming Messiah, which of the three sections of time laid out by the angel Gabriel are dedicated to the ministry of the Messiah?

7 weeks for rebuilding

62 weeks between the rebuilding until the appearance of the Messiah

7 weeks ???



Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Your interpretation, which is the antichrist interpretation used by Dispensational Theology and brought to America by John Darby about the time of the Civil War, contains no period of time for the ministry of Christ.

It also ignores the words of Jesus, where He speaks of the covenant with the many.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.


Worse yet is the claim by many that the age of Grace will end and God will go back to dealing with Israel under the Old obsolete Sinai covenant during a future time period of 7 years.
If I told you what I really think of this idea, they would remove me from this forum.
It is the same reaction that Jesus had to the money-changers in the temple.

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bab2, the problem with you interpretation is that it ignores that the 70 weeks prophecy is a good thing to Jerusalem and Israel once the 70 weeks are completed.

You have turned it into a permanent condemnation of Israel and Jerusalem - the way you have interpreted it.
 
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BABerean2

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bab2, the problem with you interpretation is that it ignores that the 70 weeks prophecy is a good thing to Jerusalem and Israel once the 70 weeks are completed.

You have turned it into a permanent condemnation of Israel and Jerusalem - the way you have interpreted it.

If it was my interpretation it would not be found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby came here.

Based on the text of Romans chapter 11, the only way modern Jews can come to salvation is by being grafted back into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the Church.

The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Covenant which is "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6

It is not a good thing for any of us to believe a false doctrine that claims there will be a future 7 year period, when salvation will come outside of the Church of Jesus Christ.

There is no condemnation for those in-Christ.

There is no way of salvation outside of the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and now in effect at Hebrews 8:6. It is everlasting at Hebrews 13:20.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. (Renewed animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple would be a stench in the nostrils of God.)

Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Speak the truth in love, no matter how many people cannot see it.)

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
(Expose false doctrine.)


Taking Daniel 9:27, which is a description of the New Covenant, away from Christ and giving it to an antichrist not mentioned in the chapter, by adding a manmade "gap", is a perversion of God's Word.

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Douggg

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If it was my interpretation it would not be found in the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, before John Darby came here.

Based on the text of Romans chapter 11, the only way modern Jews can come to salvation is by being grafted back into the Olive Tree, which is a symbol of the Church.

The covenant in Romans 11:27 is the New Covenant which is "now" in effect, based on Hebrews 8:6

It is not a good thing for any of us to believe a false doctrine that claims there will be a future 7 year period, when salvation will come outside of the Church of Jesus Christ.

There is no condemnation for those in-Christ.

There is no way of salvation outside of the New Blood Covenant of Jesus Christ foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34 and now in effect at Hebrews 8:6. It is everlasting at Hebrews 13:20.


Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.




Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma. (Renewed animal sacrifices in a rebuilt temple would be a stench in the nostrils of God.)

Eph 5:6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. (Speak the truth in love, no matter how many people cannot see it.)

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.
(Expose false doctrine.)


Taking Daniel 9:27, which is a description of the New Covenant, away from Christ and giving it to an antichrist not mentioned in the chapter, by adding a manmade "gap", is a perversion of God's Word.

.
The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 is not a prophecy for the church. The church is not anywhere in Daniel 9. It was to Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks have to end on an uplifting conclusion for them.
 
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BABerean2

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The 70 weeks of Daniel 9 is not a prophecy for the church. The church is not anywhere in Daniel 9. It was to Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks have to end on an uplifting conclusion for them.

You have to remember that when the Church started it was composed almost entirely of Daniel's people.
The Gentiles were later grafted in among the Israelite Christians. (Romans chapter 11)

Anything that predicts the coming Messiah is written for the Church.
I am a little surprised that you would claim the church is not anywhere in Daniel chapter 9, since it is mainly about the coming Messiah.

You seem to be promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which comes from a form of theology you have asked not to be associated with.



Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The 70 weeks have an uplifting conclusion for all of those who are grafted into the Olive Tree New Blood Covenant, through faith in Christ.

It is the covenant in Romans 11:27.

There is now no way of salvation outside of the Church.




Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,


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Douggg

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Anything that predicts the coming Messiah is written for the Church.
I am a little surprised that you would claim the church is not anywhere in Daniel chapter 9, since it is mainly about the coming Messiah.
The church is not the messiah.

The 70 weeks are determined upon Daniel's people Israel and Jerusalem. The 70 weeks are not determined on the church.
 
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Hazrus

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Romans and Galatians are full of references to the Law no longer being valid for salvation. BAB2 and others have produced them ad-nauseum.

God's people are One. God's people are the Church. The Church is not race-specific. Remember - Christ died for all people; the righteous and unrighteous - to bring them/us to God. There is no other way by which we (or any ethnicity) can be saved.

There may be a revival amongst the Jews - but this will bring them into the Church, not to fulfil some other duty. They are no longer a "Chosen race".
 
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Douggg

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Romans and Galatians are full of references to the Law no longer being valid for salvation. BAB2 and others have produced them ad-nauseum.
No longer valid for salvation? The Law could never saved anyone at any time.
 
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