Christian Naturism II

Extraneous said:

inappropriate contentography is a stumbling block for many. It is no small thing. Love does no harm to its neighbor. Love puts no cause for stumbling in his brothers way.

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inappropriate contentography is indeed a stumbling block for many, and a destructive influence in society.
It is always associated with illicit sex.

Nudism is simply people without clothes. It is not associated with sex, but instead seeks to restore people's awareness of the human body as a good and natural part of life. Christian nudism further emphases the body as the Image of God which it was intended to be. Many people have found nudism to be an effective antidote to inappropriate contentography; as they enjoy life without compulsively wearing clothes, they see inappropriate contentography as the evil distortion that it is, and turn away from it to pursue closeness to God.

My sons are now in their early 20s.
They were raised as Christians and nudists (my wife and I are nudists).
They don't go to inappropriate content sites.
They don't refer to ladies they know in terms of their body parts.
They are both virgins.

If you don't believe it, talk to other Christian nudists; there are plenty out there.

Why do birds suddenly appear, ev'ry time you are near...?

Why do fools fall in love...?

Why is a raven like a writing desk...?

Who knows and who cares?

I thought the topic was naturism, not portography?

Darkhorse said:

in fact, He never rebuked anyone for being naked anywhere in the Bible.

And that's the truth!

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Naturism was not a big problem in the bronze age.

toramei said:

Why do you think they covered their wrong doing ? Just because they realized they disobeyed.
GOD knew that when Adam and Eve would be out of the garden no more nice weather.Would you escort someone out of your house in the dead of winter with wind chills in the minus figures with out a coat to protect themselves? As a good host I do not think so.GOD gave Adam and Eve a sample of how clothes would be made when needed. Did they have a final command saying you must wear your clothes at all times?
And the first thing GOD asked " who told you that you were naked ? "

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When you have no notion of good or evil, there is no sin in nakedness
because you cannot lust. Whether or not you believe you can walk
naked today without lust, a naked person causes others to lust or turns
their stomachs. And there is no excuse bringing up children in that fashion
knowing there are perverts and pedophiles out there.

Only one person was told to go naked: Isaiah. He went naked for three and
a half years as a sign to Egypt and Ethiopia.

Those who believe that the bible is neutral in this area should do a study
on nakedness in the Bible. Only the poorest and slaves went naked, because
they had no choice. Prostitutes were the only ones willing to be naked. I think
the same spirit still applies.
http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Nakedness

Isaiah 20:4
So shall the king of Assyria lead away the Egyptians prisoners, and the
Ethiopians captives, young and old, naked and barefoot, even with their
buttocks uncovered, to the shame of Egypt.

Darkhorse said:

Revelation 3: (The Amplified Bible) [comments in brackets are theirs, not mine]

17 Because you say, “I am rich, and have prospered and grown wealthy, and have need of nothing,” and you do not know that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked [without hope and in great need], 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold that has been heated red hot and refined by fire so that you may become truly rich; and white clothes [representing righteousness] to clothe yourself so that the shame of your nakedness will not be seen; and healing salve to put on your eyes so that you may see. 19 Those whom I [dearly and tenderly] love, I rebuke and discipline [showing them their faults and instructing them]; so be enthusiastic and repent [change your inner self—your old way of thinking, your sinful behavior—seek God’s will].

"Nakedness" in Revelation symbolizes spiritual vulnerability; white robes symbolize the Righteousness of Christ.

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Not vulnerability. SHAME. You will never see righteousness
and nakedness together. The righteous are ALWAYS clothed
modestly.

From the Webster's 1828 Dictionary

Shame

3. Reproach; ignominy; derision; contempt.
Ye have born the shame of the heathen. Ezekiel 36:6.

4. The parts which modesty requires to be covered.

5. Dishonor; disgrace.

toramei said:

Why did JESUS die on the cross for us?

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Not to allow us to sin. He died to make a way for us
to return to right standing with God; sinless and
blameless. Continue in sin, and you throw away his
sacrifice.

Darkhorse said:

My sons are now in their early 20s.
They were raised as Christians and nudists (my wife and I are nudists).
They don't go to inappropriate content sites.
They don't refer to ladies they know in terms of their body parts.
They are both virgins.

If you don't believe it, talk to other Christian nudists; there are plenty out there.

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I would rather not get personal, but since you made the reference. Naturism steals from
children the right for their wife-to-be to be the first naked woman they are with. Just like
inappropriate contentography, it cheapens the experience of being naked with the only one who should
see them (and who they see) that way.

pat34lee said:

Not vulnerability. SHAME. You will never see righteousness and nakedness together. The righteous are ALWAYS clothed
modestly.

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Revelation 16 (AMP) (again, the parenthetical comments are not mine)

13 And I saw three loathsome spirits like frogs, leaping from the mouth of the dragon (Satan) and from the mouth of the beast (Antichrist, dictator) and from the mouth of the false prophet; 14 for they are [actually] the spirits of demons, performing [miraculous] signs. And they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. [c]Blessed is he who [d]stays awake and who keeps his clothes [that is, stays spiritually ready for the Lord’s return], so that he will not be naked—spiritually unprepared—and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they (demons) gathered the kings and armies of the world together at the place which in Hebrew is called [e]Har-Magedon (Armageddon).

pat34lee said:

I would rather not get personal, but since you made the reference. Naturism steals from children the right for their wife-to-be to be the first naked woman they are with. Just like inappropriate contentography, it cheapens the experience of being naked with the only one who should see them (and who they see) that way.

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That's an interesting cultural perspective of the husband and wife seeing only each other's bodies, but no others.
I could write a book about the impracticality and unwanted effects of promoting that practice, but I'm pretty sure you're not interested.

Twice in my life I have experienced a female nurse holding my penis in one hand and shoving a catheter into it with the other hand. The first time I was 13 years old and (obviously) unmarried. Has that "cheapened" my marital experience with my wife?

No...

I don't remember any Biblical exceptions for medical personnel or procedures.
Of course, I don't remember any Biblical prohibitions on nudity either!

I grew up seeing my parents nude frequently, and that continued as long as they lived. I also saw my brothers and sisters, nephews and nieces, cousins, and a few assorted friends (of both sexes) nude, and they saw me. We all survived and were not warped by the experience.

My wife and I have been very happily married for 25 years (first marriage for each of us), and we have always been faithful to each other. This is not due to our "virtue", but is totally a result of God's blessings and grace.

As all good parents do, we raised our kids with an awareness of perverts and pedophiles, whose victims are almost always clothed.

Over the years, we have known hundreds of nude people of both sexes, have many of them as regular friends, and have been blessed by the experience.

Darkhorse said:

Revelation 16 (AMP) (again, the parenthetical comments are not mine)

13 And I saw three loathsome spirits like frogs, leaping from the mouth of the dragon (Satan) and from the mouth of the beast (Antichrist, dictator) and from the mouth of the false prophet; 14 for they are [actually] the spirits of demons, performing [miraculous] signs. And they go out to the kings of the entire inhabited earth, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15 (“Behold, I am coming like a thief. [c]Blessed is he who [d]stays awake and who keeps his clothes [that is, stays spiritually ready for the Lord’s return], so that he will not be naked—spiritually unprepared—and men will not see his shame.”) 16 And they (demons) gathered the kings and armies of the world together at the place which in Hebrew is called [e]Har-Magedon (Armageddon).

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That just remade my point. Unpreparedness is only part of it.

—and men will not see his shame.”
His nakedness

Darkhorse said:

I don't remember any Biblical exceptions for medical personnel or procedures.
Of course, I don't remember any Biblical prohibitions on nudity either!

I grew up seeing my parents nude frequently, and that continued as long as they lived. I also saw my brothers and sisters, nephews and nieces, cousins, and a few assorted friends (of both sexes) nude, and they saw me. We all survived and were not warped by the experience.

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Again, read any biblical reference to nakedness and you will see it is not a
condition that is to be preferred. It is never mentioned as a good thing, or
even neutral. It is always bad.

You can promote being naked around family and strangers and think that
you haven't been warped? Being sinners, we are all warped in some form
or another, but some are easier to see than others.

pat34lee said:

Again, read any biblical reference to nakedness and you will see it is not a
condition that is to be preferred. It is never mentioned as a good thing, or
even neutral. It is always bad.

You can promote being naked around family and strangers and think that
you haven't been warped? Being sinners, we are all warped in some form
or another, but some are easier to see than others.

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Good nakedness:

Ezekiel 16:7 (NIV)
I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew up and developed and became the most beautiful of jewels. Your breasts were formed and your hair grew, you who were naked and bare.

(of course, this allegory later uses nakedness negatively, as a symbol of Israel's beauty being used to create illicit (adulterous) alliances with pagan nations.


Neutral nakedness:

Mark 14:51-52
51 A young man, wearing nothing but a linen garment, was following Jesus. When they seized him, 52 he fled naked, leaving his garment behind.

Of course we are all sinners and are warped by sin; no question about that.

My reference was to your assertion that the only person someone should see and share nakedness with is their spouse. You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but my experience suggests otherwise.

Darkhorse said:

Of course we are all sinners and are warped by sin; no question about that.

My reference was to your assertion that the only person someone should see and share nakedness with is their spouse. You're certainly welcome to your opinion, but my experience suggests otherwise.

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It all goes back to modesty. Not being a stumbling block for others.
There are deviants and perverts, Judges and pastors among them.
This is the only time I've seen someone put forward nudism as a Christian,
and I just don't think it fits.

Matthew 6 v 25 " Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food,and the body more important than clothes ? v 31 So do not worry,saying " what shall we eat ? or " What shall we drink ? ' or " What shall we wear ? "32 For the pagans run after all these things,and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness,and all these things will be given to you as well.

John 11 v 43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, " Lazarus, come out! " 44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around his face.Jesus said to them, " Take off the grave clothes and let him go."

When GOD created man in his image naked and saw HIS creation as good.

pat34lee said:

Not to allow us to sin. He died to make a way for us
to return to right standing with God; sinless and
blameless. Continue in sin, and you throw away his
sacrifice.

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Jesus died on the cross to take away our sin and shame away.Returning to standing with GOD as created sinless and blameless.
How did we stand before GOD when HE created us ?

toramei said:

When GOD created man in his image naked and saw HIS creation as good.

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When we had no concept of good and evil, that was true.
Now, we are sons of Adam in the flesh. Fallen beings who
will not be whole until these bodies are no longer flesh.

toramei said:

Jesus died on the cross to take away our sin and shame away.Returning to standing with GOD as created sinless and blameless.
How did we stand before GOD when HE created us ?

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Same answer as last post. Our bodies cannot be redeemed.
That is why we get new ones before we can be with him.

pat34lee said:

When we had no concept of good and evil, that was true.
Now, we are sons of Adam in the flesh. Fallen beings who
will not be whole until these bodies are no longer flesh.

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According to your statement as long as we are alive we will never be whole.That is drastic being apart from GOD until we die.
All these years when the knowledge of JESUS dying on the cross getting rid of our old nature ( flesh ) and rising with the LORD in righteousness.I had it all wrong.

pat34lee said:

Same answer as last post. Our bodies cannot be redeemed.
That is why we get new ones before we can be with him.

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No redemption ?