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Does Science Agree With the Bible?
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Subduction Zone
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I have no religion, that is your sin. And no. Things look the age that they are in my science supported view. You know, the science that you use and depend upon every day of your life.
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God separated light from darkness back at the beginning that is on the first day.
God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night;. I use the Strong's Bible so I can study the original Hebrew. In this case there is no "Let there be" that does not exist in the original. We have three word: "LIGHTS","FIRMAMENT" & "HEAVEN". Firmament here defines the meaning of the word "HEAVEN". (If you want to understand the meaning of these words then context is the key. We look at all the different verses in the book of Genesis, that uses these words.) According to physics the light waves we receive get filtered out in the Firmament or atmosphere. They are even more filtered out in the Ocean. Light only travels through 3,280 feet of the water. After that it is dark and a whole new world of life begins that is bio luminous and they provide their own light. Some of it in the range that we can see and a lot of the world and a lot of the light is outside of our range of sight. Not that many people understand the first chapter of Genesis. God just has not given it to them to understand. A lot of this stuff will be known during the 1000 year reign of Christ. Jesus is the light and light is important. When you control the light you control reality. When you go into a movie theater they control the light and they take you into another world. Then at the end they return you back to the world that you came from. Usually a changed or a different person. This what I studied in College.
The Hebrew people measure their month by the moon. We measure day and night based on the Sun in the Sky. In 240 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes made the first good measurement of the size of Earth. This is an example of what God has given us to know and to understand. He measured the height of a tower and the depth of a well at noon and used fairly simple math to determine the earth was round and the size of the earth. There is a lot of stuff here, we could go on forever talking about it. The Hebrew Holidays and how they determine the dates and what their significance is. For example: The eight-day festival of Passover is celebrated in the early spring, from the 15th through the 22nd of the Hebrew month of Nissan. So no matter where you are in the world you can determine when Passover is by looking at the moon. The Jewish calendar is based on lunar cycles. Towards the beginning of the moon’s cycle, it appears as a thin crescent. That is the signal for a new Jewish month. Knowing exactly when the month begins has always been important in Jewish practice, because the Torah schedules the Jewish festivals according to the days of the month.
http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/myw/w2u_eratosthenes_calc_earth_size.html
I do not plan to live long enough to see the tribulation. I will be close to 80 by then.
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Yes we make that up but it is based on passages in the Bible that says God does not change: "God is the same yesterday today and forever". God is not corruptible. Here on earth we know that pure light or pure energy can not be corrupted. It is the elements or the physical world that is corruptible and that results in change. Unstable elements change as they seek to be stable. God is not corruptible and He does not change. In Him there is no corruption. The mystery then is HOW could Jesus be fully human and fully God.
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Here you go...Job 38.
1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, 2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge? 3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. 5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? 6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? 8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? 9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it, 10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors, 11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place; 13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? 14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment. 15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken. 16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth? 17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death? 18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all. 19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof, 20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof? 21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great? 22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, 23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war? 24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder; 26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man; 27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth? 28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew? 29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? 30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? 32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? 33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? 34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee? 35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are? 36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart? 37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven, 38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together? 39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions, 40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait? 41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.
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Subduction Zone
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dad, I have more than beliefs. I have knowledge, you on the other hand have less than nothing. Your blatant hypocrisy causes that to happen.
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But you don't really know what Jesus said. The Bible is not a reliable source. At least not for science.
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Jadis40
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(In reference to the Hebrews thinking the earth was flat...yes they did. They also had a cosmology of the earth and heavens that is completely and utterly wrong, in comparison to what has been observed through scientific study:
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Luke17:37
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You overcomplicate things, Joshua. On the first three days, God had made/used light (perhaps a supernatural source) for the daytime. On the fourth day, He made the sun, moon, and stars/planets. These are used to separate night and day, and for tracking seasons and years. All of these relate to the passage of time - day, season, year. Today the heavenly bodies separate the night and day and help us track seasons and years.
Thirteen years ago, I translated Genesis 1 entirely in a Hebrew class. There's nothing mysterious about it--nothing missing in English. The words and phrases are clear in their meaning. The first verse says what God did, and the rest of the chapter describes specifically how he did it in six days. God went over and above to make sure we understand these are literal days. Light/darkness, day/night, evening/morning, first day, second day...
Genesis 1:3-5
3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good; and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.
Someone once told me that the Hebrew word for create, bara, means creation out of nothing. He explained that millions of years passed between verse one and two, and then God made the rest of creation using existing elements. I went home and opened my Hebrew Bible, determined not to let him get away with speaking of things he did not understand. His--and your--position is clearly bunk because of Exodus 20:11:
11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
Exodus 20:11 ties Genesis 1:1 and the rest of chapter 1 (and the beginning of chapter 2) into one neat bundle. When my grandfather tried to argue that gap theory was an acceptable position for a Christian to take because Scofield put it in his footnotes, I called him out the same way, and I was only 14. (He refused to assent, but that's because he refuses to "lose" any argument.) Scofield is responsible for spreading a lot of error - especially gap theory and pre-tribulation rapture.
Anyway, there is another word besides bara, ashah, in Exodus 20:11. This is translated "made." Bara and ashah are used interchangeably to describe God's creating action. But when God created man, the word used is bara. Therefore, there's no way the Hebrew goes along with the man's explanation--that God created out of nothing, and then after millions of years, created everything else--including man out of existing elements. It's splitting hairs to try to separate words God uses interchangeably. This man didn't know Hebrew, so he didn't realize that his argument wasn't supported by Hebrew. He probably found an article written by someone who was also mostly uneducated in Hebrew to try to justify his belief in millions of years, and he just embraced it and repeated it. But the Hebrew or English does not allow for this treatment of the clearly written text. There's also no suggestion from the text to read millions of years into it. People are just subjecting God's authority and elevating the authority of man.
You might this is not a big deal. But it was God's Word that created the universe and everything in it. All Scripture is God-breathed and useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16). Jesus is the Word, who was actively involved in all the creating process (John 1:1-3,14). "For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart" (Hebrews 4:12).
Now check this out.
Revelation 19:13-15, 21
13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him on white horses. 15 Now out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, that with it He should strike the nations. And He Himself will rule them with a rod of iron. He Himself treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God...
21 And the rest were killed with the sword which proceeded from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.
Jesus rebuked the Sadduccees on the basis of the tense of a word in the Scripture, since they did not know the Word or the power of God (Mark 12:18-27). They knew the words, of course, but processing words intellectually and believing and embracing them are two very different things. Jesus, the Word of God, Who created by His Word, who provided us His written Word, is the same who will destroy evil men at His coming by His Word. Do you not think that if you treat His word carelessly by refusing to believe the clear parts that He will consider you guiltless? I'm not saying you have to believe in six literal day young earth creation to be saved, but you're on a very slippery slope.
Please take some time to study 2 Peter 3:3-9. It discusses scoffers of the last days who come to reject a literal, bodily return of Christ. It explains that, foundationally, they also refused to believe in God's creation out of water or the worldwide flood. The flood was the first judgment, but if people don't believe the first, it makes sense not to fear God and the future judgment by fire. The verse many people use--I think you already cited it to me--"a day is like a thousand years" to support their rejection of Genesis as literal history is in that same passage, but that use is clearly taking Scripture out of context. It refers to God's patience because He wants to give everyone a sufficient chance to repent and believe in Jesus for their salvation. Please take seriously the Bible's strong words against and the end of such type of rebellion.
I don't know how old you are or when you expect the Tribulation, but what if you are still alive when it comes? You said you'd be 80 so you'd be dead, but that isn't exactly in your hands. People can live to 100, or older. Also, you might not be right on the Tribulation timing - perhaps it's coming earlier than you expect? Will you be ready to endure suffering to obey the Word of God, or will your interpretation of it encourage you to reject your faith or become deceived? It's not good to assume you won't be here, because then you will not be prepared spiritually and emotionally (should you find yourself in it). Jesus gave strong, repeated warnings for a reason. I suppose some people will even say to themselves, "This isn't the Tribulation, because I'm still here, therefore this isn't the mark of the beast..." and therefore justify an action that brings them damnation.
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You need to study more science. God could not have made the stars on the fourth day. As Sagan says we are star stuff, the elements that make up the earth were made in stars.
The order is right there. God made the heavens then the earth and then the sea. He did not make the sea, then the earth and then the heavens.
As a dispensationalist I am pretrib. I do not think I will die other then as Paul says we die daily. I beleive I will be transformed before tribulation period because the Bible says: "Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath." The wrath of God is for the world not the Church. The Bride will not be here in the world. In fact the Bride could not be here in the world when the wrath of God is poured out. The false dead harlot church will still be here and perhaps there will be people that do not notice that the true church is gone.
We do not know right now. The quirks that make up electrons, protons and neutrons are very small. They are trying to study them in the Higgs boson at CERN.
God gave us the Bible, the written word of God, just as we have written history. He also gave us the natural record for those who take the time to study science. He does not contradict Himself. Science does not contradict the Bible. There are people that do not understand the Bible and there are people that do not understand the evidence God has given us through Science. The age of the universe is based on the Hubble effect. Fairly simple math that calculates the expansion rate of the universe and the spin down rate of the earth and the receding rate of the moon. This is the very same math that we use for our BPS with our smart phones and our satellite technology. If you trust science to give you a smart phone then why not trust them to use the same physics and the same math to tell us the age of the Universe? Only it is up to you to study science for yourself. If you do not want to that is your choice. But sooner or later you will need to learn it. The Bible and science go hand in hand and they compliment each other.
Again I will repeat myself. God gave us the natural record. All science can do is gather the evidence that God gives us. I have a Trilobite Fossil specimen from the Middle Cambrian Jince Shale Formation matrix! This "rock" was a living animal during the mid-Cambrian Era about 505 million years ago! This is the evidence we have to study. Trilobites are very common, we know this was the first hard body so they still remain today. This is what makes up lime for cement and plaster and chalk.
Yes and some people say God used DNA as the language of life. Other people say that the ancient Hebrew is the language God used to created the Universe.
I have read the Bible at least 5 times and I do not treat it carelessly. Perhaps you are guilty of what you are trying to accuse me. Does the Bible not say: "1"Do not judge so that you will not be judged.2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.…" So according to the Bible you are guilty when you judge others. So be careful what you accuse me of, because you maybe telling on yourself.
Again you maybe guilty of what you are accusing others of. I do not reject the literal understanding of the Bible. So you should be careful when you accuse others that you do not bear false witness. Everyone has their own understanding. I do not reject any of it. Even the Christians here on the forum. They approach maybe slightly different then mine, but from their perspective what they believe is true. Like you they believe in a literal understanding of the Bible. I do not reject any of the creation theories and I accept all of them. In context from their perspective.
What I take serious is the word "MANY". We are told that "many are weak and sickly among you" not a few but many. Why? Because they are not: "not discerning the Lord's body." We are not to judge others we are to judge ourselves: "Forif we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged."
It does not much matter. God is keeping me alive and I am sure He has His reasons and He has a work He wants me to do. When I have finished then I can go onto my reward.
I have endured plenty in life so it is up to God what I do and what I do not have to endure. We are not saved by works. So whatever we have to endure He will reward us.
If you want to go through the trib then go through it. But I would suggest you get off the grid. Get a small vaccation home ourside of the cities and learn how to get by without the power grid. I experiment around and work on that every day. Right now I am working on a solar powered USB lighting system. With LED lighting we do not need that much power. I have a solar powered light I could use to read all night that cost me about $7. Based on 18650 (3.6 volt) Lithium batteries that cost about $1 to buy on Ebay. My oldest son is already living off of the grid. Even in Alaska for a while he went up there and lived off of the grid. That is quite an accomplishment when you have real bears trying to get at your food supply.
So if you think your ready that is fine. I have nothing against prepers getting ready. I will be more then happy to help people get ready for when that day comes.
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Has "observed scientific study" ever observed anything like this?
2 Kings 6:17 And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
If not, do you consider this to be part of their "cosmology of the earth and heavens" that is "completely and utterly wrong"?
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The problem is not with the Bible and the problem is not with science. The problem is with the people that twist the Bible and twist science to fit their own agenda. "To the pure, all things are pure, but to those who are corrupted and do not believe, nothing is pure." Titus 1 15
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Jadis40
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I don't see what one (Syria attacking Israel) has to do with Hebrew Cosmology. But to give you a straight answer: Do I consider the above passage to be cosmology? No.
I think my point was missed too. My point was that the ancient Hebrews used to believe that there were literal floodgates in the firmament through which rain fell. (No knowledge yet of the hydrologic cycle.) They also thought that the sun, moon, and stars were attached to the underside of a solid dome.
My point was we know, now, that the sun and moon and stars are not within or even close to the earth's atmosphere, and that there's no solid dome holding back waters either.
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What I see you doing here is blaming the Hebrews on something science is feeding you.
How did "windows of heaven" suddenly become "floodgates"?
And where did you read/hear about the "underside of a solid dome"?
I suspect you're getting your theology from the Internet and choosing to believe it.
That's nice.Jadis40 said:
I happen to know that too.
But does the same source of that knowledge also tell you about horses and chariots of fire?
If not, how is it these Hebrews know more about cosmology than science will ever ascertain in its myopic state?
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