Discussion Can you lose your salvation ? -and all the variance of topic is leads to

Alithis

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You never - EVER sin?
read 1 john chapter 3 .. carefully .
then read what i have said -carefully

this way we can avoid a rabbit trail based on what is not being said .. and adhere to what I clearly written
 
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SavedByGrace3

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From your understanding, you either sin and are not saved, or you never sin and you are saved.
There seems to be a irreconcilable dichotomy in your logic.
So let me know... please no long convoluted explanations.
Can a believer who is saved and born again sin or not?
Simple yes or no question.
_________
My answer is yes, of course they can.
 
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Alithis

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From your understanding, you either sin and are not saved, or you never sin and you are saved.
There seems to be a irreconcilable dichotomy in your logic.
So let me know... please no long convoluted explanations.
Can a believer who is saved and born again sin or not?
Simple yes or no question.
_________
My answer is yes, of course they can.
so you didn't read 1 john chapter 3 yet ...

read 1 john chapter 3 .. carefully .
then read what i have said -carefully

this way we can avoid a rabbit trail based on what is not being said .. and adhere to what Is clearly written.

you see i did not say cannot sin .. this is why you need to go and ready 1 John chapter 3 .. very carefully before you reply .
 
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SavedByGrace3

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so you didn't read 1 john chapter 3 yet ...

read 1 john chapter 3 .. carefully .
then read what i have said -carefully

this way we can avoid a rabbit trail based on what is not being said .. and adhere to what Is clearly written.

you see i did not say cannot sin .. this is why you need to go and ready 1 John chapter 3 .. very carefully before you reply .
I have read 1 john 3 many times. I wrote a translation of 1 john years ago while studying Greek. We have all read 1 john 3.
I agree with 1 john 3.
Thanks.
 
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Zugzwang

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Where did you get your information?

Initially, I got the info from a John Bevere teaching "The Bait Of satan" (not the 45 min one, the extended teachings on YT.) From there I looked the words up myself in the Greek with the blue letter greek interlinear bible online.

I was (and still am) really upset at how lackadaisical the translators were at such an important teaching & concept, especially when it concerns where you will spend eternity.

Not a legalist, believe in the importance of relationship. I believe it was my yearning for the holiness of God in my life that gave me a covering or mercy to even see this in the first place frankly. I also FIRMLY believe for those that are "hungry", God will find a way to put this kind of info in your path. He did mine, ptl.
 
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SeventyOne

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one ..act of obedience at a time :)
sin is NEVER an act of obedience .

So, my salvation depends on me?

What exactly is an act of obedience by your definition? I'm sitting here drinking some tea, not a sin, but also not an act of obedience. So, where's that line?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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So, my salvation depends on me?

What exactly is an act of obedience by your definition? I'm sitting here drinking some tea, not a sin, but also not an act of obedience. So, where's that line?
I agree SO. If your salvation depends on you then it reduces to a works based religion not grace and faith.
The one act of obedience is to obey the gospel and call on His name to be saved. The same thing that GOT you saved also KEEPS you saved.
Dids
 
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farout

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Initially, I got the info from a John Bevere teaching "The Bait Of satan" (not the 45 min one, the extended teachings on YT.) From there I looked the words up myself in the Greek with the blue letter greek interlinear bible online.

I was (and still am) really upset at how lackadaisical the translators were at such an important teaching & concept, especially when it concerns where you will spend eternity.

Not a legalist, believe in the importance of relationship. I believe it was my yearning for the holiness of God in my life that gave me a covering or mercy to even see this in the first place frankly. I also FIRMLY believe for those that are "hungry", God will find a way to put this kind of info in your path. He did mine, ptl.


I went to some effort to search out if there was any possibility that the word believe, Belief, believers. There are verbs, adjectives, nouns and verbs all doing with these words. NOWHERE does the word OBEY enter inter in to the root word. So what you are hearing is a persons side effort to give his opinion of what it means to believe, follow or obey, which I can understand.

All translators have made great efforts and long times in study and research to present in English what the Greek says. These translators devoted their entire lives to giving us the Word of God in English. To attack them as you have is wrong. Please carefully do your own research after someone comes up with a new way of translation a word that has been repeated over several centuries by many Greek scholars. I have seen this same kind of "new" word sorta of thing over my years as a Christian.

The King James Bible is a good OLD translation, reliable, and anyone can find salvation by reading it, yes there are better more reliable translations today, because we have so much more data that they did not have in 1611, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many more written materials. So be a little more careful in attacking those Godly men who devoted their entire life to the Word of God. Two of the best literal, as close to the Greek as possible in English are the ESV and the NASB. I wish you Gods Blessings on your study of Gods WORD.
 
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Alithis

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I have read 1 john 3 many times. I wrote a translation of 1 john years ago while studying Greek. We have all read 1 john 3.
I agree with 1 john 3.
Thanks.
so no problem then as i wasn't saying anything that is not in there .-you added to what i was saying made an assumption then asked ..if i ever sin .
actually i do not knowingly willfully sin by what i do -though how often do we do so unwittingly .
we are far more prone to sin by what we do not do when we know it is right to do it .
like when we refuse to open out mouths and speak the Gospel to the lost becaseu we are ashamed of the name of the lord Jesus .

but if we are born of God we do not ..continue in that error . we repent of it and do it no more .

when it comes to willful sin ,sin which we simply know to be sinful . we dont do that any more when we are born of God .
you know ..
steal
lie
commit adultery (inappropriate content)
sexual immorality .
Make and pay homage to idols
covet .
murder (which begins in hate) .
etc .........

when we are born again of God we do not continue in the practice of those things .
 
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Alithis

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I agree SO. If your salvation depends on you then it reduces to a works based religion not grace and faith.
The one act of obedience is to obey the gospel and call on His name to be saved. The same thing that GOT you saved also KEEPS you saved.
Dids
our salvation depends on us obeying God who provides it .. he says "this is the way ... walk in it ." he doesn't say ..this is the way ...do as "you " will .. do as you wil is a quote out of the satanic bible .,
 
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Zugzwang

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Therefore, to you who believe, [Jesus] is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone,” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
1 Peter 2:7–8 NKJV

That's one, of many, where the bible says that disobedience is equal to disbelief.
I went to some effort to search out if there was any possibility that the word believe, Belief, believers. There are verbs, adjectives, nouns and verbs all doing with these words. NOWHERE does the word OBEY enter inter in to the root word. So what you are hearing is a persons side effort to give his opinion of what it means to believe, follow or obey, which I can understand.

All translators have made great efforts and long times in study and research to present in English what the Greek says. These translators devoted their entire lives to giving us the Word of God in English. To attack them as you have is wrong. Please carefully do your own research after someone comes up with a new way of translation a word that has been repeated over several centuries by many Greek scholars. I have seen this same kind of "new" word sorta of thing over my years as a Christian.

The King James Bible is a good OLD translation, reliable, and anyone can find salvation by reading it, yes there are better more reliable translations today, because we have so much more data that they did not have in 1611, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, and many more written materials. So be a little more careful in attacking those Godly men who devoted their entire life to the Word of God. Two of the best literal, as close to the Greek as possible in English are the ESV and the NASB. I wish you Gods Blessings on your study of Gods WORD.

And to whom did He swear that they should not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? And so we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief (Heb. 3:18,19, NASB)

Therefore, to you who believe, [Jesus] is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone,” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”
1 Peter 2:7–8 NKJV

Heb. 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 john 2:3-4 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

John 3:36 KJV He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 3:36 NASB He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 3:36 NLT And anyone who believes in God's Son has eternal life. Anyone who doesn't obey the Son will never experience eternal life but remains under God's angry judgment."
 
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Hank77

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Therefore, to you who believe, [Jesus] is precious; but to those who are disobedient, “The stone which the builders rejected has become the chief cornerstone,” and “a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.”1 Peter 2:7–8 NKJV
Young's Literal Translation
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore, also, it is contained in the Writing: `Lo, I lay in Zion a chief corner-stone, choice, precious, and he who is believing on him may not be put to shame;'
1Pe 2:7 to you, then, who are believing is the preciousness; and to the unbelieving [unpersuaded, not convinced], a stone that the builders disapproved of, this one did become for the head of a corner,
1Pe 2:8 and a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence--who are stumbling at the word, being unbelieving, --to which also they were set;

What were they believing or not believing [not convinced of]?
Mar 8:29 And he saith to them, `And ye--who do ye say me to be?' and Peter answering saith to him, `Thou art the Christ.'
The long awaited Messiah, the Anointed One.
In verse 6 Peter quotes from the Writing, the Hebrew text....

Isa 28:16 Therefore, thus said the Lord Jehovah: `Lo, I am laying a foundation in Zion, A stone--a tried stone, a corner stone precious, a settled foundation, He who is believing doth not make haste. [He will not avoid, run away from the truth].

So it really doesn't matter if G544 is translated as unbelieving or disobedience, it is talking about one particular disobedience that will surely cause a person to not be saved. Not obeying the Gospel, the truth of who Jesus was/is, the Christ.
2Co 5:20 in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, `Be ye reconciled to God;'
 
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SavedByGrace3

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our salvation depends on us obeying God who provides it .. he says "this is the way ... walk in it ." he doesn't say ..this is the way ...do as "you " will .. do as you wil is a quote out of the satanic bible .,
So when you sin you are doing it against your will?
 
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Alithis

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So when you sin you are doing it against your will?
what sin do you refer to..?
a error of Not doing what you know to be right?
or a sin of oing something you know to be sin?

the latter i dont do..why would i?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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what sin do you refer to..?
a error of Not doing what you know to be right?
or a sin of oing something you know to be sin?

the latter i dont do..why would i?
Sorry... I just do not believe that. You are either confused, or....
 
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Alithis

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Sorry... I just do not believe that. You are either confused, or....
haha....tell me this.. when we speak of direct unambiguous sin.. to lie,to covet,to not forgive,to steal,to commit adultery (inappropriate content sexual immorality)
whst power on earth can make me do so beyond my own will,seeingvthst the lord Jesus has set me free?
we were prisoners to sin.but now we are free by the blood of jesus.no free man can be compelled to serve the one he is set free from.he must choose to do so by his own will.
 
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SavedByGrace3

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haha....tell me this.. when we speak of direct unambiguous sin.. to lie,to covet,to not forgive,to steal,to commit adultery (inappropriate content sexual immorality)
whst power on earth can make me do so beyond my own will,seeingvthst the lord Jesus has set me free?
we were prisoners to sin.but now we are free by the blood of jesus.no free man can be compelled to serve the one he is set free from.he must choose to do so by his own will.
thanks for the thoughts!
Have a great day in Him!
 
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