Which is why we can see the Genesis story presented using literary devices to convey meanings that are not about a time frame for the creation of our cosmos.
John
NZ
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7 Day creation- literal or figurative?
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Which is why we can see the Genesis story presented using literary devices to convey meanings that are not about a time frame for the creation of our cosmos.
John
NZ
The 7th Day is when God rests from "ALL" of His work of creating. IF He has already rested from ALL of His work of creating then HOW can one be "created" in Christ Today?
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from ALL His work which God created and made.
This is important since it takes the agreement of the Trinity to "create" a new creature in Christ:
Gen 1:26 ¶ And God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
Jesus said:
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever;
In order to become a Christian, please tell us HOW to be created a new creature in Christ apart from the Trinity. Amen?
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The Holy Spirit, the Author of Genesis, told us WHEN our Cosmos was made. It was the 3rd Day when the other Heavens/firmaments were made. Gen 2:4
Gen 2:4 ¶ These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth (3rd Day-Gen 1:10) and the heavens,
The first firmament, which God called Heaven was made on the 2nd Day, in the midst of water. Gen 1:6-8 Amen?
Gen 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
Amen?
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Im having a hard time understanding your logic. If this is a Baptist thing than maybe thats why; however if this is your opinion than it is terribly wrong. Your interpretation on us being on the 6th day still doesn't even make sense and creates it's own host of inconsistencies when applied against the rest of the Bible. Not to mention it seems you have a problem with kindergarten level comprehension. There is a difference between the past, present and future tense.
Now lets get started shall we.
The "GENSIS" account on "Creation" is regarding exactly what it says. The Creation of the Heavens, the Earth and everything in the Heavens and on the Earth "at that point in time". Salvation and Forgiveness of the Sins of man along with being "reborn" is not apart of the Genesis creation account. The key word for today is RESTED. Click here please I beg you. Notice the definition of rested is in the past tense in the Bible just like much of Genesis accounts like the ages of everyone like Methuselahs age of 969 years; however according to you if God indeed has not "rested" on the 7th day yet, than the scripture wouldn't be in the past tense now would it?! For it to fit your beliefs and strange logic of being us currently being on 6th day still; the scripture would instead have to say something like "...and God will rest on the seventh day" to support your belief of the 7th day being sometime in the future. Revelation's prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled all exhibit the use of future tense.
Now because you have perpetually screwed up the basics of "1 day" because of your inability to understand the past present and future tense you have ruined the entire bibles timeline especially the book of Genesis.
God said to Abraham that after 400 years He would deliver Israel, "...in the fourth generation".
This suggest 100 years marks the completion of a single generation at the time. Even more so his son Issac was born when he was of the age 100 which was the start of the next generation. However, back to your believe that the 7th day has yet to come and that God has not "rested" despite it clearly saying so in Genesis. If it has only been 6 days since the dawn of creation and that we are living on the 6th day right now that would mean everything is a lie. 365 days are in a year. Abraham lived to be 175 years of age. 175 years of life = to be 63,875 days. Now according to "you", we are still on day 6 of creation since God has not rested on the 7th day yet. Abraham has lived 63,875 days and died. Does this actually makes sense to you? How long did Adam live?! 930 years which is 339,450 days yet we are still on day 6 in the exact same book that speaks of the first humans humans ages in years?!
Honestly if you still don't believe or understand I can give you 1 scripture that put your entire beliefs in the garbage. After this point if you don't get it you are hopeless and ignorant because the scriptures are true!
Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
You say we today are still in the 6th day. There is very little that is good about this wicked place we call home to be on the 6th day. Do you even watch the news?! Why do you think destruction will/must come?! To wipe the wicked away. Yet according to you we are in the 6th day still that God told in Genesis as being very good. So now your belief can be seen to suggest that God sees the Earth right now as it stands as being very good.
*rolls eyes*
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False and I know how to spell kindergarten. Your mistake is that you don't seem to know that the Hebrew "imperfect tense" is NOT the same as the English past tense.
*** Now lets get started shall we.
The "GENSIS" account on "Creation" is regarding exactly what it says. The Creation of the Heavens, the Earth and everything in the Heavens and on the Earth "at that point in time". Salvation and Forgiveness of the Sins of man along with being "reborn" is not apart of the Genesis creation account.
Not quite since Gen 1:27 shows that Adam (Heb-mankind) was created Spiritually in this verse. In fact, since God is STILL creating mankind in His Image Spiritually, since the present 6th Day, the Day of Salvation, continues.
*** The key word for today is RESTED. Click here please I beg you. Notice the definition of rested is in the past tense in the Bible just like much of Genesis accounts like the ages of everyone like Methuselahs age of 969 years; however according to you if God indeed has not "rested" on the 7th day yet, than the scripture wouldn't be in the past tense now would it?! For it to fit your beliefs and strange logic of being us currently being on 6th day still; the scripture would instead have to say something like "...and God will rest on the seventh day" to support your belief of the 7th day being sometime in the future. Revelation's prophecies that have yet to be fulfilled all exhibit the use of future tense.
The Hebrew imperfect tense used at the end of the present 6th Day shows that God's creation continues. Jesus is God and He didn't die on the Cross until a thousand years later. The Holy Spirit is God and He is still working to bring sinners to Christ.
*** Now because you have perpetually screwed up the basics of "1 day" because of your inability to understand the past present and future tense you have ruined the entire bibles timeline especially the book of Genesis.
God said to Abraham that after 400 years He would deliver Israel, "...in the fourth generation".
This suggest 100 years marks the completion of a single generation at the time. Even more so his son Issac was born when he was of the age 100 which was the start of the next generation. However, back to your believe that the 7th day has yet to come and that God has not "rested" despite it clearly saying so in Genesis. If it has only been 6 days since the dawn of creation and that we are living on the 6th day right now that would mean everything is a lie. 365 days are in a year. Abraham lived to be 175 years of age. 175 years of life = to be 63,875 days. Now according to "you", we are still on day 6 of creation since God has not rested on the 7th day yet. Abraham has lived 63,875 days and died. Does this actually makes sense to you? How long did Adam live?! 930 years which is 339,450 days yet we are still on day 6 in the exact same book that speaks of the first humans humans ages in years?!
False since your idea of a "Day" (Heb-Yowm-a period of time) is used in the Bible to show 12 hours, 24 hours, a lifetime, and forever. In fact, since the 7th Day/Age has NO end and NO evening, it's Eternity. Can you explain WHY God rested in the beginning? Did He get tired? Of course not.
*** Honestly if you still don't believe or understand I can give you 1 scripture that put your entire beliefs in the garbage. After this point if you don't get it you are hopeless and ignorant because the scriptures are true!
Amen. Every jot and tittle of God's Holy Word is True...BUT...ancient Hebrew theologians got it all wrong.
*** Genesis 1:31 - And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Amen and that is what God will say AFTER Jesus returns and gives us dominion/rule over every other living creature, including Angels. 1Co 6:3 He will also give us rule over viruses, mosquitoes and Lions because He will change ALL living creatures into vegetarians as Gen 1:30 clearly shows.
*** You say we today are still in the 6th day. There is very little that is good about this wicked place we call home to be on the 6th day. Do you even watch the news?! Why do you think destruction will/must come?! To wipe the wicked away. Yet according to you we are in the 6th day still that God told in Genesis as being very good. So now your belief can be seen to suggest that God sees the Earth right now as it stands as being very good.
*rolls eyes*
Read Genesis 2:1 which shows that when God rests (Ceases) to create, ALL the "host" of Heaven will be safely in Heaven BEFORE the 7th Day begins. This includes the last sinner to be saved since Heaven will NOT be complete without them.
Gen 2:1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, (Heb-completed)and ALL the host of them.
Then, God will rest, since His Creation will finally be brought unto perfection and Heaven will be filled with it's host, which includes ALL Christians. Notice this verse which clearly shows that a Christian's rest is future. God Bless you
Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
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No. I think it was Open Heart who started that thread. I have NEVER said that the Bible was wrong and I have NEVER tried to correct God's words. What I do is show what the Bible actually says instead of the flawed views of ancient men who lived thousands of years before science. You seem to prefer to follow the theology of men who God told us could NOT understand His Truth. Amen?
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FaithfulPilgrim
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This is just an idea and by no means am I claiming this to be even remotely close to being true or even logical for that matter. There is no reason for God to depict 1 day being a gazillion years only to cause confusion however this is just a hypothesis of an idle mind.
Every planet in every solar system in every galaxy in the heavens is subjected to time dilation which in this scenario propagates what 1 full day actually is in relation to our understanding of a day(24hours) [Relativity] If you don’t understand how relativity works just watch the movie Interstellar.
We all know the word of the bible is both symbolic and literal at times which has without a doubt raised debates regarding periods and times of events of things when they just don't coincide with our data, understanding and experiences.
1 year, 1 day, 1 hour, 1 second ect… varies from planet to planet when stacked up against our own.
Planets Length of Day
Mercury 1,408 hours
Venus 5,832 hours
Earth 24 hours
Mars 25 hours
Jupiter 10 hours
Saturn 11 hours
Uranus 17 hours
Neptune 16 hours
With this in mind what makes anyone so sure that 1 Day in the Genesis's account of creation was a literal 24 hours?! I’m not saying that isn't the case but with an open mind and knowing how symbolic the Bible can there is a logical possibility that God wasn't literally standing on earth when he created the “heavens and the earth” which would've otherwise subjected him to a 24 hour day period. If products of the heavens "planets" can experience time differently why not the creator of time itself?! Especially seeing that he currently is in a totally different place than we are today. above the firmament ie: (outer-space/heavens). For all we know 1 day at the time of creation could've easily been millions or billions of years in comparison to an earth day with the idea of how time dilation and relativity works. Regarding the scriptures I think it would make more sense to present this matter symbolically and say 1 day then to give the exact sum in a measurement of our understanding because that would just unnecessarily overcomplicate the scriptures especially for believers back than.
Just an idea
While it's true that the length of a day varies depending on the planet, I still think the days in Genesis are literal 24 hours.
We all live on earth and as far as we know, this is the only planet with sentient life, so why would God create in six days if these days were 10 hours like on Jupiter. The average person back then probably did not even know how long a day on Jupiter was.
Why create using days in the context of Jupiter when we all live on earth and the Bible deals with mankind here on earth?
Of course, I have heard of one theory called time-relative creation where time may have flowed differently back then than it does now.
Just my thoughts.
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UnScriptural, since we remain in the 6th Day (period of time) and the prophecy of Gen 1:28-31 will NOT take place until Jesus returns to rule and reign on Planet Earth for a thousand years.
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What?! Who said anything about Jupiter?! I never said 1 day was 10hours for us on earth.. The planets that I listed where examples of how long it takes for them to complete a day cycle. I never said anything to point out Jupiter being some universal comparison for us. Please re-read my entire post because you have totally misunderstood everything. I never suggested any time to represent 1 day. Only a suggestion that possibly 1 day at the time of creation could've been longer than the 24hours we perceive as a day.
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Genesis was written and redacted or edited by the Hebrew priest in Babylon. The seven day creation was confused with Adam and Eve spending their first seven days on earth, an earth that was already populated that had evolved from an initial life implantation .I'm after thoughts and opinions Gods 7-day creation. Did Moses right it as a narrative to the Israelites? Is Genesis all figurative language?
Thoughts and opinions on the controversial topic!
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OzSpen
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John,
I've only now read what you wrote in January.
Augustine took an interesting view of the days of creation, although my reading of The City of God at times reveals divergent and even contradictory views by him.
It was long before the evolutionary emphases of the long-age emerged that here was one of the most prominent Christian early church fathers who was not sure of the length of creation days.
St Augustine of Hippo, who disagreed about the nature of the 6 days of creation. He wrote: 'For in these days the morning and evening are counted, until, on the sixth day, all things which God then made were finished, and on the seventh the rest of God was mysteriously and sublimely signalized. What kind of days these were it is extremely difficult, or perhaps impossible for us to conceive, and how much more to say!' (The City of God, Bk 11, Ch 6).
In The City of God, Augustine had further things to say about 'the nature of the first days' (Bk 11, Ch 7) and 'What we are to understand of God's resting on the seventh day' (Bk 11, Ch 8).
Compare this with Book 12, Ch 10. In Book 15 he seems to take the genealogies of the OT more literally. Seems to be a wavering man to me, but he didn't accept the days of creation as literal days.
Oz
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I know this is a little late but I just came across this scripture not long ago. It kind of proves that 1 day(24hours) to us on earth indeed isn't the same for God himself.
2 Peter 3:8-9
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
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Except when it is (Exodus 20:11): For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
The fact that these words were were written by the finger of God in Hebrew should settle the matter. There are times when time means nothing to God, and there are times when time is what it is, as divided up by 24 hours.
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Ho Ozpen,
The church fathers thought within the cultural context of their times. They had none of the concepts we have today as the result of scientific investigation. Nor did they have access to the abundance of understanding of the ancient cultures of the OT times. Their reference points were very different, and largely inductive, based on their doctrinal positions on may issues. John Walton's lectures and books addresses there issues very well in my opinion. His basic stance that the Genesis creation story was written for us but not to us (we were not its first readers) is very basic to how we are to see Genesis 1-3 in the light of modern thinking.
John
NZ
The church fathers thought within the cultural context of their times. They had none of the concepts we have today as the result of scientific investigation. Nor did they have access to the abundance of understanding of the ancient cultures of the OT times. Their reference points were very different, and largely inductive, based on their doctrinal positions on may issues. John Walton's lectures and books addresses there issues very well in my opinion. His basic stance that the Genesis creation story was written for us but not to us (we were not its first readers) is very basic to how we are to see Genesis 1-3 in the light of modern thinking.
John
NZ
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There is also a Day (Heb-yowm-period of time) in the 3rd Heaven ll Cor 12:2 which NEVER ends. It's the 7th Day when God rests from ALL of His work of creating. The 7th Day never ends because it's Eternity.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested (Heb-ceased creating) on the seventh day from ALL His work which He had made. Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from ALL His work which God created and made.
God will NOT rest from ALL of His work until it is finished or brought to perfection at the end of the present 6th Day (Heb-yowm-period of time). Is that in the next 24 hours? Of course not since Jesus will rule and reign on our Planet at the end of the present 6th Day for a thousand years when He returns. God has but 7 Days and today is the last Day. God's "Days" are best understood as Ages. (periods of time)
Psa 90:4 For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
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+1 Im not sure why anyone still thinks a literal 24hours pertains to the days of creation, but to each their own opinion.
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It's because they are repeating the traditional religious views of ancient men. Traditional religious thinking has kept us in the dark ages for thousands of years. IF God is the Supreme Intelligence of Creation, and He is, ancient men could NOT have understood what He was telling them in Genesis. God told Daniel HOW to hide the Truth in front of everyone's nose:
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
God hid His Truth until the time of the end after knowledge has increased. ONLY the people who live in these last days before Jesus returns will understand what God told us in Genesis. By doing this, God insured that ONLY by Faith, in Him, can one be saved. There are thousands of denominations (businesses) with contradicting views which also works with God to insure that NO one can come to Him except by Faith since there are so many denominations, NO once can believe them All. Amen?
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Perhaps because the bible says so. Perhaps because it's the simple natural interpretation. Perhaps because the 10 commandsments also say so...many of reasons.
Why would I think the days are long time periods?
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You mentioned the "result of scientific investigation."
You are aware that the "result of scientific investigation." tells us if you die....you stay dead on day 3.
Of course that doesn't bode well with the concept of the resurrection you believe in...so you're allowed to bend a little when it comes to the resurrection...yes?
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