"Natural" Processes

-57

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That is not true. You are confusing science with naturalistic presuppositions. Science can tell what did happen if there is evidence to work with, but it otherwise it can't tell us what can happen without making theological assumptions. The fossil record presents definite evidence that the earth is old, and that the layers were not laid down all at the same time in a global flood, but gradually, in many local floods. (if everything had been laid down in one flood the ratio of sea to land animal fossils would be closer to even, but in fact there are many more sea and shore fossils than land fossils). There is no body in Jesus' tomb, so science can't say anything about whether he rose from the dead.

You know not what your talking about. They find soft tissue in some of these fossils...dated by your camp as 65+ MY's old.
Why is it there? It's rather obvious you can't explain why. You can try...

Once again...science says you stay dead on day 3. As a christian, why do you dismiss miracles so easily?
 
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Percivale

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You know not what your talking about. They find soft tissue in some of these fossils...dated by your camp as 65+ MY's old.
Why is it there? It's rather obvious you can't explain why. You can try...

Once again...science says you stay dead on day 3. As a christian, why do you dismiss miracles so easily?
Science says, if a body is dead and no one does anything to it, it stays dead. Even in BC times people knew that. What science can't say is whether anyone did anything to the body, like God raising it from the dead. Unless you think science knows there is no god.

Soft tissue is the only thing you can find anymore to support a young earth, and its not nearly enough to outweigh all the evidence for an old earth, Besides, even if there was no way it could be preserved that long, all it would prove is that a dinosaur lived more recently, not that the whole earth is young. I wouldn't be surprised if some dinosaurs lasted till more recent times without leaving many fossils. After all, jungle animals rarely fossilize. But decay of organic matter is highly variable and dependent on conditions, unlike decay of radioisotopes, which is very constant.

I believe in miracles just as well as you. I just don't believe God would put lies into the fossil record any more than he would into the Bible, and I don't believe your interpretation of the Bible is infallible.
 
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-57

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Science says, if a body is dead and no one does anything to it, it stays dead. Even in BC times people knew that. What science can't say is whether anyone did anything to the body, like God raising it from the dead. Unless you think science knows there is no god.

Soft tissue is the only thing you can find anymore to support a young earth, and its not nearly enough to outweigh all the evidence for an old earth, Besides, even if there was no way it could be preserved that long, all it would prove is that a dinosaur lived more recently, not that the whole earth is young. I wouldn't be surprised if some dinosaurs lasted till more recent times without leaving many fossils. After all, jungle animals rarely fossilize. But decay of organic matter is highly variable and dependent on conditions, unlike decay of radioisotopes, which is very constant.

I believe in miracles just as well as you. I just don't believe God would put lies into the fossil record any more than he would into the Bible, and I don't believe your interpretation of the Bible is infallible.
So you said you "just don't believe God would put lies into the fossil record any more than he would into the Bible"....Then why would God lie when He told us sin and death was the result of one man...Adam...?

The problem with your dino's lasted concept is that the fossils were in strata dated by the old earth time clock as 65+ MY's old.

Perhaps i should also ask why do they still find C14 in coal and diamonds?
 
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So you said you "just don't believe God would put lies into the fossil record any more than he would into the Bible"....Then why would God lie when He told us sin and death was the result of one man...Adam...?

The problem with your dino's lasted concept is that the fossils were in strata dated by the old earth time clock as 65+ MY's old.

Perhaps i should also ask why do they still find C14 in coal and diamonds?
I believe in Adam, and that he fell into sin. Obviously, sin existed before him, in Satan. Do a word-study on the word 'world'-- ('kosmos' in Greek), and you'll see that it refers specifically to the human world and 'society' would be as good or better a translation. So Romans really says that through Adam sin and death came to humanity.

YECs used to have a dozen arguments for why the earth is young, and one by one they have dropped them. No doubt dino tissue and c14 in coal will go the same way soon enough. I was a YEC until the last couple years, so I've been following their arguments and have seen how they keep failing.

You need to consider some questions: why does radioisotope dating give the results it does? Why are there so many more marine fossils than land ones? Why are there no cattle in the Mesozoic or whales in the Paleozoic? Why does nearly everyone accept the Big Bang theory when until it was proposed (by a Christian) atheists all believed in an eternal universe and resisted the idea that it could have had a beginning?
 
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-57

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I believe in Adam, and that he fell into sin. Obviously, sin existed before him, in Satan. Do a word-study on the word 'world'-- ('kosmos' in Greek), and you'll see that it refers specifically to the human world and 'society' would be as good or better a translation. So Romans really says that through Adam sin and death came to humanity.

YECs used to have a dozen arguments for why the earth is young, and one by one they have dropped them. No doubt dino tissue and c14 in coal will go the same way soon enough. I was a YEC until the last couple years, so I've been following their arguments and have seen how they keep failing.

You need to consider some questions: why does radioisotope dating give the results it does? Why are there so many more marine fossils than land ones? Why are there no cattle in the Mesozoic or whales in the Paleozoic? Why does nearly everyone accept the Big Bang theory when until it was proposed (by a Christian) atheists all believed in an eternal universe and resisted the idea that it could have had a beginning?

For the most part I really don't think you can be an old earther and a christian...or if you truly are a christian then you have been fooled. There is a need to greatly change the foundation of christianity and many other verses that support a literal garden, fall, Adam and Eve.

I suggest you put your faith in the Word of God rather than mans proven to be fallible science....which caused you to re-write many bible verses.
 
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For the most part I really don't think you can be an old earther and a christian...or if you truly are a christian then you have been fooled. There is a need to greatly change the foundation of christianity and many other verses that support a literal garden, fall, Adam and Eve.

I suggest you put your faith in the Word of God rather than mans proven to be fallible science....which caused you to re-write many bible verses.
Did you even read my post? Isn't it clear that one can be an old-earther and still believe in "a literal garden, fall, Adam and Eve"? I grant that those things are important to some basic Christian doctrines, but the length of the days in the Creation week is definitely not an important Christian doctrine.
I do have faith in the Word of God, but even more than that, I have faith in God Himself, who created heaven and earth. I know that He created it in a truthful, consistent manner; one that makes science possible. And science has been progressing in a definite direction toward greater accuracy and precision for a long time. You will have to give account to God for how you have dealt with the truth available to you, and whether pride or fear is keeping you from considering that you may have misunderstood God's word and His creation. YEC teaching has turned people away from Christianity already, and those who teach that one must be a YEC to be a Christian may be guilty of their blood, as it were.
 
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-57

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Did you even read my post? Isn't it clear that one can be an old-earther and still believe in "a literal garden, fall, Adam and Eve"? I grant that those things are important to some basic Christian doctrines, but the length of the days in the Creation week is definitely not an important Christian doctrine.
I do have faith in the Word of God, but even more than that, I have faith in God Himself, who created heaven and earth. I know that He created it in a truthful, consistent manner; one that makes science possible. And science has been progressing in a definite direction toward greater accuracy and precision for a long time. You will have to give account to God for how you have dealt with the truth available to you, and whether pride or fear is keeping you from considering that you may have misunderstood God's word and His creation. YEC teaching has turned people away from Christianity already, and those who teach that one must be a YEC to be a Christian may be guilty of their blood, as it were.

I would imagine...not being you....that you would deny the world wide flood of Noahs time.

I say this because most old earther do. But then again you said to me.... You will have to give account to God for how you have dealt with the truth available to you,...perhaps, but what I do know is that the truth indicates that the strata seen around the earth as well as the buried fossils was a result of the flood of Naoh. But, you can deny that truth if you desire.
 
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I would imagine...not being you....that you would deny the world wide flood of Noahs time.

I say this because most old earther do. But then again you said to me.... You will have to give account to God for how you have dealt with the truth available to you,...perhaps, but what I do know is that the truth indicates that the strata seen around the earth as well as the buried fossils was a result of the flood of Naoh. But, you can deny that truth if you desire.
I believed all the YEC views not so long ago, and my relationship with God has not changed since then, only what evidence I've come across. I love the truth and seek it wherever it may be found. Have you studied the issue fairly, or only listened to one side of the story? The YEC explanation sounds good on the surface, but ignores so many details, so you need to check other sources. Hugh Ross is a old-earth Christian you might start with; he has some good books on the topic.
There is nothing infallible in the way YEC interprets the Bible. It reads in a modern use of language that was not the authors' intent. Ancient Hebrews weren't that into scientific explanations, and liked metaphor and allegory. When the Bible says all the earth came to Egypt to buy grain, it refers to all the earth the original audience knew, not all the earth we know. Could be the same for the flood. I don't know, but I do know one global flood would not create the pattern of fossils we find. Instead, we would find more land animals fossilized, and more 'out of place fossils.'

A good example of what happens when scientists try to come up with a natural explanation for something God supernaturally did is their explanations of how life began. They have a dozen different theories, each crazier than the last, and are making no real progress toward figuring it out. If God had created everything 6000 years ago, I think that is how the science of the age of the earth would look. Everybody would have a different number and a variety of wild speculations. But instead, everyone agrees the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. You have to be a real conspiracy theorist to think they all agreed on that number without the evidence supporting it.
 
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-57

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I believed all the YEC views not so long ago, and my relationship with God has not changed since then, only what evidence I've come across. I love the truth and seek it wherever it may be found. Have you studied the issue fairly, or only listened to one side of the story? The YEC explanation sounds good on the surface, but ignores so many details, so you need to check other sources. Hugh Ross is a old-earth Christian you might start with; he has some good books on the topic.
There is nothing infallible in the way YEC interprets the Bible. It reads in a modern use of language that was not the authors' intent. Ancient Hebrews weren't that into scientific explanations, and liked metaphor and allegory. When the Bible says all the earth came to Egypt to buy grain, it refers to all the earth the original audience knew, not all the earth we know. Could be the same for the flood. I don't know, but I do know one global flood would not create the pattern of fossils we find. Instead, we would find more land animals fossilized, and more 'out of place fossils.'

A good example of what happens when scientists try to come up with a natural explanation for something God supernaturally did is their explanations of how life began. They have a dozen different theories, each crazier than the last, and are making no real progress toward figuring it out. If God had created everything 6000 years ago, I think that is how the science of the age of the earth would look. Everybody would have a different number and a variety of wild speculations. But instead, everyone agrees the earth is about 4.5 billion years old. You have to be a real conspiracy theorist to think they all agreed on that number without the evidence supporting it.

As a christian...I believe the bible.
Following science....evolution can't work. Science shows a young earth.
 
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Hoghead1

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-57, when you made bold assertions such as you do here, claiming that evolution won't work that science shows a young earth, I find this very arrogant on your part. You have neither the credentials nor the qualifications to sit in judgment on mainstream science. My advice to you is that you should humble up, further educate yourself on evolution and also theology.
 
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-57

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-57, when you made bold assertions such as you do here, claiming that evolution won't work that science shows a young earth, I find this very arrogant on your part. You have neither the credentials nor the qualifications to sit in judgment on mainstream science. My advice to you is that you should humble up, further educate yourself on evolution and also theology.

Arrogant? Oh. I disagree with you..and because of that I'm arrogant?

NEXT
 
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Hoghead1

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I think you are most arrogant because you are essentially claiming you are so very much smarter and more intelligent than all these scientists, so that it is your privilege to sit in judgment on their work. Also, you view yourself as such an expert on Christianity that you are capable of determining who is Christian and who isn't. Truth is, you don't even to begin to have the credentials or the qualifications to be acting in such a way. Also, you hate organized religion, right? You do not attend any church regularly for worship, right? In fact, you refuse membership in any mainstream church, right? You are largely on your own, working on your own theology, right? OK, since you renounce and forsake the Christian community called church, why do you feel at all that your are a spokesperson for Christianity?
 
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-57

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I think you are most arrogant because you are essentially claiming you are so very much smarter and more intelligent than all these scientists, so that it is your privilege to sit in judgment on their work. Also, you view yourself as such an expert on Christianity that you are capable of determining who is Christian and who isn't. Truth is, you don't even to begin to have the credentials or the qualifications to be acting in such a way. Also, you hate organized religion, right? You do not attend any church regularly for worship, right? In fact, you refuse membership in any mainstream church, right? You are largely on your own, working on your own theology, right? OK, since you renounce and forsake the Christian community called church, why do you feel at all that your are a spokesperson for Christianity?

You forgot one thing...when I post theology I back it up with scripture....You don't. You just post what you think is right.
 
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Aman777

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So much the worst for you, ten. You cannot win arguments against science by citing Scripture. Also, it is questionable ho well you understands Scripture.

False, since when one shows the AGREEMENT of Scripture, Science and History, it changes from a belief into a Fact supported by all three disciplines. Beware those who cannot support their views with this agreement since they are preaching a part truth. Amen?
 
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