Does the Bahai' religion...

LoAmmi said:

I think it would be a mistake for people to think that Judaism believes He stopped talking to us. Rather, we believed we received no more Prophets. Prophet is a special role.

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Oh, beauty! So, the Jews being proactive, creative and deep thinkers must be taught (as we Mormons are taught, and we teach our children) the scientific procedures for obtaining personal revelation. Yes?

Baha'is, too, I would think. Certainly the Hindu and Buddhist teachings focus on opening the third eye, cultivating the inner voice. Many "mainline" Christian sects urge seeking and listening to the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit.

I have learned much about my own faith and scriptures by shining the lights of other faiths on them. Nothing would delight me more than having a discussion here at CF about the most effective, efficient ways to obtain reliable personal revelation. How to know the voice of God as Abraham, Moses, Arjuna, Gautama Buddha, Mahatma Gandhi, Mohammad, Mother Teresa, Joseph Smith, Jesus Christ, and many, many others have.

You may only think the first 2 of those named really did it. Others may think that only 1 or 2 of the others did it, but wouldn't it be wonderful to compare notes with a number of other truth seekers here about how this great leader prepared himself/herself to receive the revelations they claimed to have received?

LoAmmi said:

Sometimes reading and responding at 1:15 AM isn't the best idea in the world.

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Good night, my friend.

jackcv said:

Oh, beauty! So, the Jews being proactive, creative and deep thinkers must be taught (as we Mormons are taught, and we teach our children) the scientific procedures for obtaining personal revelation. Yes?

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Probably some stuff in mysticism with that but I don't deal with mysticism. Can't stand the stuff, personally. People start talking about it and my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about the Orioles starting lineup.

LoAmmi said:

Probably some stuff in mysticism with that but I don't deal with mysticism. Can't stand the stuff, personally. People start talking about it and my eyes glaze over and I start thinking about the Orioles starting lineup.

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That just blows me away. I can't comprehend it.

jackcv said:

That just blows me away. I can't comprehend it.

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Mystical people rarely can and I can't comprehend mystics. It seems so contrived and fake to me. People letting their emotions get the better of them and losing perspective. But that's how it is to me. I have no doubt people are genuine.

LoAmmi said:

Mystical people rarely can and I can't comprehend mystics. It seems so contrived and fake to me. People letting their emotions get the better of them and losing perspective. But that's how it is to me. I have no doubt people are genuine.

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There's no question that mysteries can be counterfeited, but so can scholarship and credentials of all sorts. We have all had educated, credentialled, verbose idiots as professors somewhere along the line.

The question is: if Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, Moses, etc. talked with and received personal counsel from HaShem, why not you and me? Isn't that only because we choose not to open our eyes and ears?

What do the rest of you posters think? This is not a private conversation. Are we cut off from personal revelation because of our unwillingness, or God's?

jackcv said:

There's no question that mysteries can be counterfeited, but so can scholarship and credentials of all sorts. We have all had educated, credentialled, verbose idiots as professors somewhere along the line.

The question is: if Adam, Enoch, Abraham, Joseph, Daniel, Moses, etc. talked with and received personal counsel from HaShem, why not you and me? Isn't that only because we choose not to open our eyes and ears?

What do the rest of you posters think? This is not a private conversation. Are we cut off from personal revelation because of our unwillingness, or God's?

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I figure if He wants to speak to me, He will and He will make it clear. There's nothing I can do one way or the other. I'm not really the type of person to go seeking.

The simple truth is that I've never experienced a "spiritual moment" or whatever else people choose to call these things. People say they experience them in nature or by visiting important buildings or going to religious sites. I've been to all of these things and I haven't felt anything. I appreciate these things. I like the history or science behind what I'm seeing. But feeling something? Never.

LoAmmi said:

I'm not sure what you're talking about here.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ruth

dcalling said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ruth

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Is this supposed to be sarcastic? I know what the Book of Ruth is. The child of Ruth is not considered to be Naomi's biological child. When we look at the genealogy of David, Naomi's husband isn't there but Ruth's husband is. So, what is your point?

LoAmmi said:

Is this supposed to be sarcastic? I know what the Book of Ruth is. The child of Ruth is not considered to be Naomi's biological child. When we look at the genealogy of David, Naomi's husband isn't there but Ruth's husband is. So, what is your point?

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It is obvious Ruth/Naomi is following the commandment, see the part about close relative. It shows that the commandment has been used not only between brothers. ===>The women living there said, "Naomi has a son.", her line is not broken, even when all her sons are dead.

jackcv said:

My apologies, Arthra. I read "Baha'is do accept the birth of Jesus as miraculous" and understood "...do not accept..." it. Just looking for trouble where there isn't any, I guess.

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Apology accepted...!

dcalling said:

It is obvious Ruth/Naomi is following the commandment, see the part about close relative. It shows that the commandment has been used not only between brothers. ===>The women living there said, "Naomi has a son.", her line is not broken, even when all her sons are dead.

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There is no such thing as a female line in the Tanach. All genealogies go though the fathers, such as the one shown to go to David. It's why in the example you cited before about brothers, it was seen as the deceased brother's child. The male line was preserved. You'll note there's nothing in there about a dead sister and her sister filling in to keep the female line going. There's simply no such thing.

LoAmmi said:

There is no such thing as a female line in the Tanach. All genealogies go though the fathers, such as the one shown to go to David. It's why in the example you cited before about brothers, it was seen as the deceased brother's child. The male line was preserved. You'll note there's nothing in there about a dead sister and her sister filling in to keep the female line going. There's simply no such thing.

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I should say her family line, even though her son is dead without kid.

dcalling said:

I should say her family line, even though her son is dead without kid.

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But it isn't. David's genealogy goes though Ruth's living husband not Naomi's dead husband.

Titus 3:9

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

1 Timothy 1:4

or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

jackcv said:

Baha'is, too, I would think. Certainly the Hindu and Buddhist teachings focus on opening the third eye, cultivating the inner voice. Many "mainline" Christian sects urge seeking and listening to the still, small voice of the Holy Spirit.

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As to Baha'i concepts you won't find references to "opening the third eye"... or "cultivating" the inner voice.
We do acknowledge revelation through the Manifestations of God such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... but we are not trying to cultivate say a mystical experience through "scientific procedures" as such.

There are some Baha'i Writings that have references to mysticism such as the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys but we are not attempting to acquire some heightened state of mystical awareness.

Arthra said:

As to Baha'i concepts you won't find references to "opening the third eye"... or "cultivating" the inner voice.
We do acknowledge revelation through the Manifestations of God such as Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah... but we are not trying to cultivate say a mystical experience through "scientific procedures" as such.

There are some Baha'i Writings that have references to mysticism such as the Seven Valleys and the Four Valleys but we are not attempting to acquire some heightened state of mystical awareness.

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The definition of mystery, which includes mysticism and mystical has degenerated since the scriptures were written. In the JudeoChristian scriptures, the word is never used to mean something unknowable.
The Hebrew word we translate "prophet" literally means speaker, spokesman. It did not, however, simply mean somebody speaking her/his own mind. It meant then, as is does now, one who professes to speak in the name/service of God. Mystics who have learned very practical truths through personal revelation - and are authorized to tell the world.

All of the real prophets are, in this original sense, mystics. Moses said, "Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!" Of course, receiving revelation does not give one authority to speak it, any more than receiving a doctorate gives one the authority to lend it out or start a school (or church) that issues doctorates.

Who teaches humanity to not seek the Spirit and communion with God? I did not expect this phobia at Christian Forums. Here is what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches; it is what Jesus Christ, his prophets and his apostles exemplified, godlike and humble at the same time:

He is Risen 72 said:

Titus 3:9

But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

1 Timothy 1:4

or to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work--which is by faith.

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And yet, the Tanakh is full of genealogies and even the Greek Testament uses them to validate the Christian Messiah.

Thanks for your post Jack.. I'm frankly really unsure what you're aiming at in mysticism but I hope you'll find some place in your life to attain greater nearness to God. For Baha'is there is what we call "four methods of acquiring knowledge" that was spoken of by Abdul-Baha in a book entitled "Some Answered Questions" that developed around 1904 to 1906 when He was confined in the city of Akka by the Turkish government...I'll provide a few excerpts from it here:

"The first criterion is that of the senses; that is, all that the eye, the ear, the taste, the smell, and the touch perceive is called “sensible”. At present all the European philosophers hold this to be the most perfect criterion....The second criterion is that of the intellect, which was the principal criterion of comprehension for those pillars of wisdom, the ancient philosophers...The third criterion is that of tradition, that is, the text of the Sacred Scriptures, when it is said, “God said thus in the Torah”, or “God said thus in the Gospel.”...But the grace of the Holy Spirit is the true criterion regarding which there is no doubt or uncertainty. That grace consists in the confirmations of the Holy Spirit which are vouchsafed to man and through which certitude is attained."

You can read the full text at
http://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/some-answered-questions/#f=f13-962

jackcv said:

That might serve if we were discussing your father or mine. But there are too many eye witnesses to the contrary in the case of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Generally there are not eyewitnesses to such matters. That would be rather indiscreet, don't you think?