OBAMA’S REFUGEE POLICY: NO CHRISTIANS NEED APPLY

Mountain_Girl406

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Christian. But what kind of Christians does the Church view such individuals? Also, do you suspect everyone who proclaims faith as not being deceiving?
Well, the Catholic Church would likely view an Episcopalian bishop as being in error about doctrine, and on Bishop Robinson ' s case also in error on the morality of gay marriage, but I would hope that they would still recognize him as Christian.
As far as being deceptive, carrying on as a Christian despite lacking faith, well, I guess you'd have to conclude if you looked into their heart they weren't Christian. Since we can't, though, I'd recommend taking it on face value.
That's why I think it's not right to declare that Obama isn't a Christian. He claims he believes, and while his actions don't always line up with Catholic teaching on morality, he's not claiming Catholicism. Other Christian churches support SSM, for instance, or birth control.
 
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Sumwear

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Well, the Catholic Church would likely view an Episcopalian bishop as being in error about doctrine, and on Bishop Robinson ' s case also in error on the morality of gay marriage, but I would hope that they would still recognize him as Christian.
As far as being deceptive, carrying on as a Christian despite lacking faith, well, I guess you'd have to conclude if you looked into their heart they weren't Christian. Since we can't, though, I'd recommend taking it on face value.
That's why I think it's not right to declare that Obama isn't a Christian. He claims he believes, and while his actions don't always line up with Catholic teaching on morality, he's not claiming Catholicism. Other Christian churches support SSM, for instance, or birth control.

Even then, the other question is who is actually a believer. Frank, Ventura used faith as leverage. Jim Jones ran the whole Christian preacher angle and not only his actions but the things he ultimately said makes one conclude that he very well used faith as a form of control whilst not having a particular belief what so ever.

Again not automatic belief one doesn't have faith, but certainly don't buy it all at once.
 
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benedictaoo

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But where do you draw the line? Can you be gay and Christian, for instance? Is Bishop Robinson a Christian as an example?
You can be a Christian and you can go to hell marked with that sign of Christian. This goes back to how are we saved?
 
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benedictaoo

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Well, the Catholic Church would likely view an Episcopalian bishop as being in error about doctrine, and on Bishop Robinson ' s case also in error on the morality of gay marriage, but I would hope that they would still recognize him as Christian.
As far as being deceptive, carrying on as a Christian despite lacking faith, well, I guess you'd have to conclude if you looked into their heart they weren't Christian. Since we can't, though, I'd recommend taking it on face value.
That's why I think it's not right to declare that Obama isn't a Christian. He claims he believes, and while his actions don't always line up with Catholic teaching on morality, he's not claiming Catholicism. Other Christian churches support SSM, for instance, or birth control.
People who profess Christ and are baptized are Christian. That doesn't mean you can't go to hell. You go as a Christian who apostasized or who wasn't sorry for mortal sin.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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People who profess Christ and are baptized are Christian. That doesn't mean you can't go to hell. You go as a Christian who apostasized or who wasn't sorry for mortal sin.
That's my point, basically if Obama professes Christ and was baptized, then how can we say he's not Christian? I don't know about where his soul will end up, none of us do, but if he professes a belief in Christ, he's Christian
 
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classicalhero

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I have not seen any credible evidence that the Obama administration is favoring one religious group at the expense of another. After reading this thread, I still haven't.

As for President Obama's claim that we do not have a religious litmus test for refugees in this country, it is my understanding that the new reality (in which this is indeed the case) is the result of changes to the immigration system in the 1960s, and that before that time the religion of people coming into this country was at least taken into consideration with regard to their ability to adjust to a society made up primarily of Christians and Jews. Some would say that this would not be a bad thing to return to, and I would agree insofar as I think that pretending that religious difference doesn't matter just because we'd like it not to is a bit like people who claim not to see skin color or what have you. Okay, sure, you try to treat everyone equally, but usually the people you're trying to impress by saying that sort of thing are already well aware of their skin color and the impact it has on their daily lives as minorities in this country. So I can't help but say that it strikes me as at best disingenuous. I probably like President Obama more than most people on this board, but I must admit it does bother me that he (and with him, seemingly large numbers of secular society) seems to treat religion as an afterthought or non-issue when the people he's actually talking about don't. I remember some years ago when the author Salman Rushdie (who I would think knows a thing or two about the threat posed by Islamic extremism) was asked by Bill Moyers of PBS in the latter's "Faith and Reason" interview series whether or not he ever had trouble writing about religion or religious people, since Rushdie himself is an atheist. Rushdie's brilliantly simple reply was something like "Well, no, not really; it doesn't matter if I'm a believer, since all the people I'm writing about are."

It seems to me that large numbers of the current political elite and even ordinary citizenry cannot see the wisdom in this kind of approach, and in enforcing through various means their secularist worldview, are setting all of us up for great harm in the future via the inevitable clash between those who are really, really committed to extremist versions of their religions (Islam and others), and those who cannot even countenance that this could ever be the case because after all religion is a private matter, not relevant to public policy because we're not a theocracy, irrelevant and for old people anyway, or any of the other things I'm sure we've all regularly heard in several iterations for quite a long time now.

The propagation of this secularist worldview (even or perhaps especially by self-identified Christians like President Obama) means that we are in fact, as a society, thoroughly unequipped to deal with the reality of religion-based terrorism (and Islam-based terrorism in particular, given how we don't understand Islamic societies like we think we understand or at least can contain Christianity and Judaism, which historically as religions are far more amenable to life under governments that do not defer to their religious sensibilities than Islam has ever been; e.g., in the Coptic liturgy of St. Basil we have prayers for the ruler of the land, without specifying that they are to be Christian, since the liturgy was authored at a time when Christians were not governing any country). It is interesting, because for me as a member of a native Middle Eastern church, I interact regularly with people who have felt the sharp edge of Islam and Islamicization for 14 centuries and counting now, and if an ignorant Westerner who did not have such a background were to place their overall views on Islam and Muslims on a graph, they'd probably be seen as somewhere to the right of Cruz or even Trump. But the idea that this is not a matter of a (only US-relevant) left/right dichotomy is lost on people who cannot see things in religious terms, and instead place their political beliefs (in the absolute equality of all religions, societies, etc.) at the center of how they are going to deal with what are essentially religion-rooted problems (again, according to the people actually fighting and propagating this ideology; it's not as though they don't understand why they themselves are doing these things even as they're telling us and their own recruits that it is all about religious war between Muslims and non-Muslims...give terrorists a little more credit than that! They're dangerous, not stupid).
Go to an immigration centre near the border to see for yourself.
 
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Erose

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I'm Catholic but also agnostic. I am active in my parish, support the Church, pray, study, and try to live my life in a good way. I'm even pro life. I just doubt the existence of God. That's why I find it funny that people who claim they do believe in God ( and Jesus and the Holy Spirit ) are often still labeled as not being Christian by others for reasons not related to spiritual belief.
Mountain girl, the way you have defined yourself, doesn't make you an agnostic. An agnostic is someone, who really doesn't care one way or another if God exists, for it doesn't matter, since they believe God isn't going to have anything to do with them, if he existed anyway.

Having doubts about God's existence, as a Christian is kind of part of the course. I think all folks go through this at times. That is why faith is needed and prayed for. Agnostics don't pray.
 
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SolomonVII

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That's my point, basically if Obama professes Christ and was baptized, then how can we say he's not Christian? I don't know about where his soul will end up, none of us do, but if he professes a belief in Christ, he's Christian
Jesus called some professing Jews of his time his brothers and mother and sisters, veritable sons and daughters of God therefore, given who he was.
He also called some professing Jews children of their father, who was not Abraham, but the father of lies, the Devil.
In the shadow of such descriptions, the fact that they were all professing Jews becomes a trifling thing indeed.

Like huge swaths of the left, the attitude of Obama against the religious right, 'clinging to their guns and their religion' is absolutely venomous. The contempt of the left for the religious right even on these forums is as thick as a brick.
What does it even mean, therefore, to pretend that we all just brothers and sisters in Christ after all?
 
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Fantine

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It is also worthwhile to remember that President Obama, through his DACA executive order and other actions on immigration, is allowing young people, overwhelmingly Catholic, who were brought to this country as children to get drivers' licenses and jobs for a two-year period, renewable once. I know three young college graduates (two who had been valedictorian and saluatorian in their high school) who were able to get jobs through DACA--but if Republicans have their druthers, they'll send them to Mexico, a country they know little about and have no connection to. Yes, these Catholic Christian Catholic DACA students.

So who hates Christian immigrants? Look past Obama to the Speaker of the House.
 
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WarriorAngel

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So we should remember that - but ignore the fact Christians were detained and incarcerated while Muslim ''refugees'' got a free pass...under Obama's nose?
Meanwhile it was the Christians who were the 'real' refugees.

Maybe it has slipped past your notice how defensive Obama is of Islam.
Or perhaps how refuses to speak of terroristic acts as terrorism.
Or pinning the religion Islam tied to the acts.

Maybe - you ignored all the video's of Obama
hating on Christians and the Bible and slipping about his faith as Muslim.

Maybe you ignore all the actions that speak for him.

But please - dont try pinning it on the speaker who doesnt have the power of Obama who allowed the 'refugees' in.
 
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LoAmmi

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So we should remember that - but ignore the fact Christians were detained and incarcerated while Muslim ''refugees'' got a free pass...under Obama's nose?
Meanwhile it was the Christians who were the 'real' refugees.

Maybe it has slipped past your notice how defensive Obama is of Islam.
Or perhaps how refuses to speak of terroristic acts as terrorism.
Or pinning the religion Islam tied to the acts.

Maybe - you ignored all the video's of Obama
hating on Christians and the Bible and slipping about his faith as Muslim.

Maybe you ignore all the actions that speak for him.

But please - dont try pinning it on the speaker who doesnt have the power of Obama who allowed the 'refugees' in.
The only sources that seem to be saying what you're saying about Christians not being let in are ones I wouldn't believe if they reported water is wet. I'm sorry, but I need something more than wacky conservative news from Bizarro world. Weekly World News would be more reliable, to me.
 
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Fantine

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Let's talk arithmetic. Republicans want to let the 10% of Middle Eastern refugees who pass their faith litmus test in. They also want to deport 13 million economic refugees from Mexico and Central and South America. That's a net loss of how many Christian (mostly Catholic) economic refugees? Ten million? Eleven million? Twelve million?

Spare me the baloney.
 
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