Does Matt 5:32 Mean I Can't Marry A Divorcee?

Grafted In · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
I added my explanation in an edit you probably replied before I finished. God gave Paul authority over Gentile believers, he wrote to many churches many epistles laying down needed rules to them when required I'm absolutely sure he has plenty of wisdom to ascertain if a marriage is repairable or a lost cause or not.

Where is he today?
I totally disagree with your whole understanding regarding marriage, divorce and remarraige.

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Grafted In said:
Where is he today?
I totally disagree with your whole understanding regarding marriage, divorce and remarraige.

Then you don't believe in a God of second chances at all. God said to forgive 70 times 7 but you are saying that one cannot be forgiven of a bad marriage and marry again ever. I say both Jesus and Paul put the emphasis on saving marriages vs divorce with their edict but some marriages aren't salvagable but some people I think were born to be wonderful husbands and wives.

Grafted In · Dec 1, 2015

But who among us is qualified to decide whether or not a marriage is salvageable? You mentioned Paul. I checked your home page...you're not catholic, so I'm guessing you don't see that office being handed down like the pope. How can anyone double guess God on any issue. He is God and if we let Him He can fix anything.
The position you hold on this issue is becoming more and more the norm and as a result we are seeing divorce rates among Christians not that far behind the rates among the unsaved. I refuse to contribute to that tendency and always urge those considering divorce or remarraige to think long and hard before they act.

Sketcher · Dec 1, 2015

CCHIPSS said:
In the post I was referring to you were saying that the only way to divorce is due to sexual immorality. And you said even if a spouse struck the other with an object, on a constant basis, there is still no ground for divorce.

There's a difference between divorce and separation. Furthermore, the OP's post centers on eligibility for remarriage. Divorce isn't right, but it is very possible to be divorced without remarrying.

CCHIPSS said:
And I will also say that abusive spouse is not really even a Christian, since Jesus taught us to love.

It's certainly not Christian behavior, but that's a No True Scotsman fallacy.

CCHIPSS said:
But assuming this is indeed an abusive relationship, and the spouse refuse to stop his abusive ways, the church should back the partner's divorce 100%.

The church should intervene before it gets to that point. Provide a safe house for the abused spouse, provide counseling and a strict roadmap for the abuser to follow - one he can't weasel his way around without truly changing on the inside.

Sketcher · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
Then you don't believe in a God of second chances at all. God said to forgive 70 times 7 but you are saying that one cannot be forgiven of a bad marriage and marry again ever. I say both Jesus and Paul put the emphasis on saving marriages vs divorce with their edict but some marriages aren't salvagable but some people I think were born to be wonderful husbands and wives.

You're criticizing the "no remarriage" view for not providing second chances, and emphasizing forgiving 70 times 7, while at the same time claiming some marriages aren't salvageable and touting divorce as an option? What about never giving up on the first marriage?

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Sketcher said:
You're criticizing the "no remarriage" view for not providing second chances, and emphasizing forgiving 70 times 7, while at the same time claiming some marriages aren't salvageable and touting divorce as an option? What about never giving up on the first marriage?

When you have someone who abuses you and won't stop to remain married to them means allowing them to continually sin against you and if they cannot be convinced to stop abusing then there isn't really any marriage to consider.
I used to be on the side of not ever divorcing but after my sister was thrown off her porch and had 2 back operations and is on morphine for the pain and her ex is now a drug addict doesn't even pay child support she didn't divorce him till after my mom died because she kept convincing her the marriage could be saved. She is now remarried and the man adores her and takes very good care of her and has helped her with all her families problems that were related to the abusive ex husband. If she had divorced long ago she probably wouldn't have titanium rods in her back and all the pain she lives with. My other sister married a dud too and divorced and remarried and this time she married a Christian and they go to church and pray together and stuff.
I am a believer in second chances both in saving marriages and remarrying people that are more serious about what Paul says a marriage should be.

Goodbook · Dec 1, 2015

Judges actually judge and decide...that is their job. Thats why people go to divorce courts and have lawyers.

Divorces between unbelievers are common.
Divorces between both christians are not, we work things out. That is why we are advised NOT to marry unbelievers. If one is believing and one is not, and is abusive, the best thing might be to divorce, but it depends on the situation, if children are involved, and for the safety of the spouse who is being abused.

Goodbook · Dec 1, 2015

You could also separate, without actual divorce. Ie. Still be married and this share finances and name and other assets but live apart. But i think after two years you sort of have to decide if you still want to be married to this person.

The law in my country is two years, if its two years apart then you can divorce because youve had ample time for reconciliation. You cant just suddenly one day decide not to be married, after all you made Vows.

Now if one person made a vow and didnt believe in it, then theres a problem. That is why again its not good to marry a person you know is an unbeliever, they are not going to remain faithful, because they dont have faith. They dont know what being faithful means...they could have just married you for convenience or a myriad of other reasons.

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Goodbook said:
Judges actually judge and decide...that is their job. Thats why people go to divorce courts and have lawyers.

Divorces between unbelievers are common.
Divorces between both christians are not, we work things out. That is why we are advised NOT to marry unbelievers. If one is believing and one is not, and is abusive, the best thing might be to divorce, but it depends on the situation, if children are involved, and for the safety of the spouse who is being abused.

Actually divorces are almost as common among Christians, I think mostly because they don't ever grow in knowledge and faith and without that happening they don't have much advantage over a non believer in a difficult marriage.

Sketcher · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
When you have someone who abuses you and won't stop to remain married to them means allowing them to continually sin against you and if they cannot be convinced to stop abusing then there isn't really any marriage to consider.

The marriage state exists regardless. In an abusive situation, my recommendation is to get to safety. Not to get together with someone else.

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Goodbook said:
You could also separate, without actual divorce. Ie. Still be married and this share finances and name and other assets but live apart. But i think after two years you sort of have to decide if you still want to be married to this person.

The law in my country is two years, if its two years apart then you can divorce because youve had ample time for reconciliation. You cant just suddenly one day decide not to be married, after all you made Vows.

Now if one person made a vow and didnt believe in it, then theres a problem. That is why again its not good to marry a person you know is an unbeliever, they are not going to remain faithful, because they dont have faith. They dont know what being faithful means...they could have just married you for convenience or a myriad of other reasons.

I think it is 6 months here and they also require pre marriage counseling now.

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Sketcher said:
The marriage state exists regardless. In an abusive situation, my recommendation is to get to safety. Not to get together with someone else.

According to some here you cannot divorce unless they are comitting adultery.

Sketcher · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
According to some here you cannot divorce unless they are comitting adultery.

Getting to saftey doesn't necessarily mean divorce. Getting divorced doesn't necessarily mean getting remarried.

Sophrosyne · Dec 1, 2015

Sketcher said:
Getting to saftey doesn't necessarily mean divorce. Getting divorced doesn't necessarily mean getting remarried.

Sometimes a divorce is required for safety and quite often people who are married for a long long time have a hard time being single. I think the percentage of people who would choose to be married over being single is pretty large and forcing divorcees to never remarry is sometimes sentencing them to a lifetime of loneliness and celibacy too. Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion that also applies to divorced people.

Sketcher · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
Sometimes a divorce is required for safety and quite often people who are married for a long long time have a hard time being single.

They had a harder time being married.

Sophrosyne said:
Paul says it is better to marry than to burn with passion that also applies to divorced people.

It does not, since Paul does not contradict Jesus.

blackribbon · Dec 1, 2015

Grafted In said:
Ok, suppose we insert a different sin in place of divorced remarrying.
Let's say you rob a bank and get away with it. Later you repent God forgives you. Are you now free to rob banks at will because the slate has been wiped clean?
We are not talking about a one-time sin. The lady is divorced. Period. That will never change until her ex dies. Then and only then is she free to remarry.
God is in the business of restoration. His will would be that this woman and her ex re-unite. That's not at all out of reason. He could change her ex-husband at any moment.
But if she marries another the door to restoration is shut.
Now, this man is asking for Biblical advice. Would you have him come between God and her ex? Would that advice insure that later there would be no second thoughts?
Suppose he does marry her and one day her ex shows up at the door with tears if repentance in his eyes, having been restored to the loving man he perhaps was, but posibly even better. Then your wife comes to the door as well and seeing him a changed man her heart goes soft for him and she regrets having remarried. Now we have a situation where both the woman who remarried and her new husband grow cold to one another because of this change in her first husband.
Do you really think it's wize to tell him to go ahead and marry the divorcee? That advice can potentially ruin what might have been a happy ending for all 3.
Do you want that on your mind the rest of your days?
I believe your advice us not Scriptural at all. But if he marries her....well, you can't unscramble eggs.
I honestly believe that if he walks away from her God will bless him richly at some point.

This isn't an equal comparison. If the divorce is the sin....she doesn't repeat the sin (as in the multiple bank robberies) until she GETS DIVORCED again. If God truly forgive the sin of the first one...then she doesn't live in a perpetual state of sin...it is FORGIVEN. Past tense. Over and done with. So the comparison would really be, if a person robs a bank...get punished and out of jail...Can they never use or walk into a bank again?....not 'are they free to rob it again?'

I say there is no sin that we have to live with forever if we ask forgiveness and truly repent. Our God doesn't work that way. If we never accept His forgiveness then it shows we do not trust that our God is really loving or big enough to erase our sins.

The sin isn't marriage...God approves marriage.

blackribbon · Dec 1, 2015

Sophrosyne said:
You need to closely read the entire chapter. It equates a LOT of commandments about how married people are supposed to treat each other. If one or both in a marriage is already breaking the "rules" in Paul's words they aren't "acting" like a husband/wife in a marriage at all and thus one is not truly departing from wife/husband who isn't "being" one but is akin to essentially in the category of an unbeliever.
Notice Paul doesn't equate ADULTERY anywhere NOR make prohibitions on "leaving" and suggests "unmarried" (divorced) here.

NO ADULTERY by Paul's own words. One can DIVORCE without ADULTERY by Paul's words.
Paul never mentions remarriage at all. Jewish law allows remarriage when one spouse dies I believe.

Jewish law allows for divorce and remarriage. Paul's teaching were aimed at how frivolously people were using the divorce laws at the time.

Citanul · Dec 2, 2015

blackribbon said:
Jewish law allows for divorce and remarriage. Paul's teaching were aimed at how frivolously people were using the divorce laws at the time.

By the same token, couldn't what Jesus said about divorce also have a lot to do with that?

blackribbon · Dec 2, 2015

Citanul said:
By the same token, couldn't what Jesus said about divorce also have a lot to do with that?

I have read many sources that say that was Jesus' real intention...to stop frivolous divorce habits that were common place and usually hurt women the most. (so kind of the opposite of the idea that a divorce woman should "suffer" alone for the rest of her life). Which viewpoint shows the most love and encourages positive loving relationships...which I believe is God's ultimate message? The two commandment that are most important are that we have a relationship with God which include reverence and love...and that we love one another, including our enemies, as we love ourselves.

Divorce is bad because it hurts people. However, a bad or loveless marriage hurts people too. It is sort of a permanent state of feeling unlovable and unworthy of being loved....not quite the message of Jesus. Maybe the church should be held liable for a bad marriage if they married two people that didn't complete pre-marital counseling and they allowed them to enter into a marriage that was not expected to be successful? Maybe a complete background check should be required so any history of abusiveness or other traits that doom a marriage statistically should be made known to the spouse before the vows are given. Maybe to prove you have enough money to survive the financial hard times, a fee should be made before you can get married and some money put in emergency account that can only become available after proving that there is a need...and in the case of a divorce, it goes to the person who doesn't file.

Grafted In · Dec 2, 2015

A local pastor refused to marry a couple after having had a discussion with the 2 at which time they admitted they were not Christians. So he told them they were welcome to use the church building but that he would not marry them. One of the couple was the daughter of a very wealthy couple who had a prominent position in the church., enough so that a visit to the regeonal powers that be fired him
This man had 3 or 4 little kids and they threw him out of work because he stood for rightiousness.
I think it was shameful. The rich parents were used to getting their way and here comes a new pastor who would not bend and he is thrown out.

Does Matt 5:32 Mean I Can't Marry A Divorcee?

Does God's word allow me to marry a divorcee?

Yes

No

Not Clear

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Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

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Born Imperishable

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

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Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Born Imperishable

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Born Imperishable

Let Your Light Shine.. Matt 5:16

Born Imperishable

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Well, when exactly do you mean?

Not a newbie

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