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Rik Brooks

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I am a devout believer in salvation by Grace. I rankle at those that say, “If you are TRULY a believer then works will certainly happen.” I have been around long enough to know that work may not certainly happen. Or they MAY happen, today, tomorrow, or 40 years from now. Suppose you are one of those that takes 10 years to grow into those works, but 9 years from accepting Christ you die. Are you not saved because you have no (or little) works?

I know that some great leaders have said that works are required. On the other hands Paul teaches us in Galatians not to trust in great leaders but to read the Word and think for ourselves.

There is the guy that is converted and catches fire for Christ. He goes out and preaches on the street. He sells everything he has and gives it to the poor.

Then there is the guy that is saved and for a time is paralyzed with fear at the life change while the Holy Ghost is working on him in baby steps.

Which is more saved? If the first guy is surely saved because of his works am I less saved because I have less works? What is the cut-off? If I do 25 and a half works am I saved?

A few weeks ago I volunteered to serve a meal at a homeless shelter. Is that a good work? Is that enough to ‘prove’ my faith? Or do I need more? How much more? By the way, I did it because a fellow church goer mentioned that he does it from time to time and I thought, “how cool, let me help out” not to prove my pudding.

I’ve never heard anyone claim that you are not saved through Grace and not by works. If I did then I have some choice verses I’d like them to explain. I have heard SO OFTEN that we are saved by grace BUT.

What do you mean ‘BUT’. There is no ‘BUT’. You are saved through grace or you are not. The choices are limited.

Saved by grace

Saved by works

Saved by a combination of the two.

This may start a firestorm as I hear arguments but that’s fine by me, as long as we keep it civil of course. I will look up and will consider every single response. I am not trying to win an argument here. I’m trying to learn.
 

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I am a devout believer in salvation by Grace. I rankle at those that say, “If you are TRULY a believer then works will certainly happen.” I have been around long enough to know that work may not certainly happen. Or they MAY happen, today, tomorrow, or 40 years from now. Suppose you are one of those that takes 10 years to grow into those works, but 9 years from accepting Christ you die. Are you not saved because you have no (or little) works?

I know that some great leaders have said that works are required. On the other hands Paul teaches us in Galatians not to trust in great leaders but to read the Word and think for ourselves.

There is the guy that is converted and catches fire for Christ. He goes out and preaches on the street. He sells everything he has and gives it to the poor.

Then there is the guy that is saved and for a time is paralyzed with fear at the life change while the Holy Ghost is working on him in baby steps.

Which is more saved? If the first guy is surely saved because of his works am I less saved because I have less works? What is the cut-off? If I do 25 and a half works am I saved?

A few weeks ago I volunteered to serve a meal at a homeless shelter. Is that a good work? Is that enough to ‘prove’ my faith? Or do I need more? How much more? By the way, I did it because a fellow church goer mentioned that he does it from time to time and I thought, “how cool, let me help out” not to prove my pudding.

I’ve never heard anyone claim that you are not saved through Grace and not by works. If I did then I have some choice verses I’d like them to explain. I have heard SO OFTEN that we are saved by grace BUT.

What do you mean ‘BUT’. There is no ‘BUT’. You are saved through grace or you are not. The choices are limited.

Saved by grace

Saved by works

Saved by a combination of the two.

This may start a firestorm as I hear arguments but that’s fine by me, as long as we keep it civil of course. I will look up and will consider every single response. I am not trying to win an argument here. I’m trying to learn.

Hi Rik; Community Hangouts is for light fellowship, as Kristen posted in the statement of purpose; at the top of the home page: "The Community Hangout is a forum for light chat and getting to know one another. "

The Salvation sub-forum in the General Theology section would probably be a better place to post this; but be forewarned; they have heard this all before and take no prisoners there::) Welcome to CF.

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/salvation-soteriology.83/
 
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Rik Brooks

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Thank you so much. I'm not afraid to go there. I'm not trolling or looking to argue. I'm genuinely seeking the truth. Since you've said they've heard it all before I think I'll read the forum first. Maybe I'll find my answer before I ask the question!

Rik the Seeker

Hi Rik; Community Hangouts is for light fellowship, as Kristen posted in the statement of purpose; at the top of the home page: "The Community Hangout is a forum for light chat and getting to know one another. "

The Salvation sub-forum in the General Theology section would probably be a better place to post this; but be forewarned; they have heard this all before and take no prisoners there::) Welcome to CF.

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/salvation-soteriology.83/
 
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Hello Rik,
Yea there's a lot of grist for the mill over in the Salvation Forum and that's where to "go in" deep and detailed.
I'm a, once saved by the grace of God, always and ever saved by that same grace, believer. Nothing can separate us from His Love not even our own stupidities and lovelessness. Glorious mercy!
Would be interested to hear about your helping out at the homeless center. What do you do? What happens there? Who organises it?
all the best
><>
 
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Rik Brooks

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Hi AFishAmongMany,

Nice to meet you. I too am a once saved always saved, never to be plucked out of His hand fella. Saved by grace, through no will of my own.

My helping at the homeless shelter is no big deal. I just helped prepare and serve breakfast. One of the leaders at our church knows the cook at that shelter and every now and again he does that. When I heard that he was doing that my wife and I volunteered. We’ll be there the next time they go. There were maybe a dozen or so of us, counting the kids of the adult volunteers.

We also sat down and ate with the men after the serving.

They also have several families that they help with food at the end of each month. These families try but their salary rarely feeds them quite to the end of the month. So now whenever we grocery shop we buy extra and give it to this leader who distributes it when the families run out of food.

That, tithing, and the occasional random act of kindness is the extent of our ‘works’. Sometimes I volunteer at Target House. That’s a hotel where they house the parents of in-patients at St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital. These are children being treated for cancer. Like St Jude, Target House never asks for payment from the families. I put on magic shows for them. Haven’t done that in a while. That is done under the auspices of the company that my daughter works for, Juice Plus. They make gummi vitamins and something they call a Tower Garden.

So there it is. Nice to meet you.



Rik the Seeker
 
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Hey Rik,
Interesting to hear that. Good to know that good stuff happens in this sad bad old world.
Many years ago I helped out in and over night shelter in the crypt of a church. Just evening soup and bread, sleeping on mattresses on the floor and a sandwich and cup of tea before going back to the streets. I was young in faith and I got a lot more out of it than it cost me. Is the place you help at long term accommodation? Is anything in place to try to get people back on their feet?
><>
 
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Rik Brooks

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This is a homeless shelter specifically for people trying to get back on their feet. They do charge but it's outrageously little. They do everything that they can to help people get back on their feet including finding jobs, etc. Most people are only there for a short time but I met one that has been there years. He has no family and for him the arrangements are fine. He doesn't make much money and he lives a very spartan lifestyle so he's happy for now.

They also have job training such as courses in using software, Word, Excel, etc. I heard a lot of people leaving jail transition through this place. It's called Memphis Union Mission http://www.memphisunionmission.org/

I actually served in the Extended Stay facility where, as they say, they provide smaller, quieter dorm rooms for those to demonstrate greater initiative and responsibility.

I didn't ask a lot of questions. I just went there, chopped up apples for a fruit salad, and served. I volunteered to help people in jail learn computer skills. I haven't heard back from them yet though.
 
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