Understanding other people

Why would someone have a problem with a widow? Being a widow/widower doesn't forbid remarriage.

blackribbon said:

Guess what? They do.

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Then they are wrong, Biblically. The vows say until death do we part. A widow/widower has fulfilled their vows before God.

So, I don't understand why someone would have anything against a widow/widower. There is nothing in the Bible which prohibits marriage to a widow/widower.

Can you tell me "some excuses" people have given you?

blackribbon said:

Well, if they (both sexes) don't assume that I must have done something awful to deserve to be alone (I must be horribly sinful for God to hate me this much), then they (men) often decide that I can't possibly love anyone else the way that I loved him....or that maybe I didn't really love him if I don't grieve openly forever (permanent Catch 22). Women assume that you will be husband hunting among their husbands and start avoiding you.

This is not just me....I belong to a variety of young widow support groups where we share common experiences.

I also get the impression that the fact that we are not virgins, we are also considered "tainted" by holier than thou Christian men. Allowable to marry but not as desirable...so sloppy seconds. And for those of us who are parents of minor children, nobody wants to raise "someone else's children". And we are lumped in with all "single mothers".

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There must be some really silly people where you live. I cant speak for others, but Ive watched most of my relatives die of cancer. I don't believe God punishes people like that. My grandmother was an honorable, Christian woman who always put others before herself, but I watched her die an absolutely horrible death from ovarian cancer. I wouldn't wish cancer upon my worst enemy.

Now, the idea of virginity is another matter. As I said, I cant speak for everyone, but if I fell in love with a widow, I would have no problem with her not being a virgin. I only seek out a virgin in a never before married woman because of the morality aspect and because I am a virgin. Yes, even at my age. I was raised in church since birth and was born again when I was 12. I also grew up in a very strict, Conservative Christian home.

My opinion of a widow with children is this. If the children are teenagers, I would let her deal with them, since they would most likely have clear memories of their father. If they were very young, I would raise them as my own children.

blackribbon said:

I had a widow friend who's minister hit on her in a counseling session related to some behavior issues with one of her children. Then he tried to cover it up by saying that she sexually approached him. She called me in tears after the incident because she was torn since she had attended this church for literally years. She had to change churches because no woman would allow her husband to be around her anymore. (So much for Christian love...)

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That is just wrong. The sin was his, not hers. Unfortunately, there are quite a few people who want to abuse their positions.

blackribbon said:

Young widows are a pariah in our society. Only old widows are honored. The Christian church doesn't know what to do with us and want us to be "healed" quickly. I go to a conservative church but even then, the one time I asked for a scholarship to allow my teenage son to attend a youth retreat that they kept pushing all the teens attend.... they interrogated him on "why" they should help him financially and why I couldn't pay the whole amount. The interrogation (and yes, it was bad enough he was in tears afterward) started with the reason he needed the financial help was because his father had died and his mother was a full-time nursing student with no job....in the end, they allowed him $25 toward the $80 weekend. I don't remember what I did without to cover the rest, but I did send him. Does anyone wonder why he never asked to go on another one? Can I also include, he volunteered with the youth group on a bi-weekly basis by coming 2-3 hours early to help set up the lighting system before the youth service. He has been an godly Christian boy since very young...not my doing but rather he chose Christ and the Christian life very young on his own accord.

Personally, I'd have to look very closely at a man who reached my age without ever being married, even Christian. I wouldn't assume godliness or purity. For a little while, I believed that I might only be able to date widowers....and I have dated several. What I have figured out is that no man (or woman) is without their own sins and problems and I have decided to judge each person individually based on the fruit in their life. If that means I suddenly become an adulteress out of association in some people's eyes, I guess I will have to answer to Jesus for responsibility for loving another person. I am willing to take that risk.

The question no one seems to have an answer for is that since the Bible actually almost commands a "young widow" if she still is sexually alive or has financial needs (since we are not to become a financial burden) but does not tell where we are supposed to find these men to marry. Unfortunately, my husband's brother was already married and considering my husband already had a son, my BIL would have been "off the hook" anyway <tongue in cheek>.

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I do understand what you mean. When I was a child, my mother asked for help from the church we attended. She was refused. That's why I began working at a young age. It was only $5-$10 a pop doing odd jobs for people. Mowing grass, cutting wood, etc, but it helped financially. $50-$75 a week was worth much more in the 1970's than today, especially when you consider the minimum wage then was $3.35/hr.

There are decent, Godly men out there who have never married for a variety of reasons. Familial obligations and the fact that I refused to marry knowing I couldn't support a wife and children are just two of the reasons I never married. I know a man who has never married because he became so jaded about women he just wouldn't risk it. Another has sworn off women because he was considered "undesirable" when he was young. He was repeatedly, brutally, and publically humiliated when he was a young man. Both of them are around my age. He has a port wine stain. All throughout his childhood his fellow classmates called him "Spot". When he would work up the nerve to approach a girl, he said it became a common joke to throw something and yell, "Fetch Spot!". I met him when he saw a suicide hotline billboard our church had erected and he called. I attended high school with the other guy and witnessed how he was treated because he was "fat". He was one of the few people whose obesity was actually caused by a medical condition. When he received treatment, he lost weight, but the damage to his psyche had already been done.

blackribbon said:

Yes, the sin is his...but the reputation is hers. She was judged by the church as being wanton. I am sure that there were good solid "Christians" who thought she deserved a stoning for attempting to soil the good name of their "godly" pastor. She (and her daughter who loved that church) were the ones who suffered. This was a mainstream traditional church.

I had another widow friend who had to literally call 911 when one of the men from her husband's Bible study (and a known friend of her husband) showed up at her home shortly after he died suddenly (heart attack) saying he was coming over to "help her out" and instead he tried to force himself on her sexually to help her with "her needs.". He didn't leave until she finally actually managed to dial 911. This was a Pentecostal type of church.

Just evidence that in spite of what they say, the church still treats widows poorly. The assumption is that we are unable to control ourselves sexually.

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A good, solid Christian wouldn't have judged her based on rumor. And honestly, it wouldn't have mattered if she was a widow or not. People of that stripe didn't want her around their husbands, anyway. What happened just allowed them to "justify" their actions. They believed him because they were predisposed to do so based on their own insecurities about her.

blackribbon said:

For a little while, I believed that I might only be able to date widowers....and I have dated several. What I have figured out is that no man (or woman) is without their own sins and problems and I have decided to judge each person individually based on the fruit in their life. If that means I suddenly become an adulteress out of association in some people's eyes, I guess I will have to answer to Jesus for responsibility for loving another person. I am willing to take that risk.

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If the "in some people's eyes" to which you were referring is me, I think you need to go back to our first conversations about divorce. I stated that I don't date divorced women because, in this age of no-fault divorce, I could never know if they divorced for the cause of adultery. Breaking a vow is basically lying. And if a woman was willing to break a promise before God, she would be willing to lie to me about the circumstances of her divorce.

Taking all those factors into consideration, I decided to eliminate the possibility that I would marry an adulteress by simply refusing to date a divorced woman.

Nowhere have I said that all divorced women are adulteresses. I also don't believe in guilt by association. I have friends who are far from being Christian.

blackribbon said:

I have noticed that we have quite a few people from different backgrounds with issues that are often seen as reasons that we may not be "marriage material"...this includes life circumstances, health problems, and mental illnesses. What things do you wish people understood about your various perceived weaknesses before they rule you out as a potential person to date/marry?

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I'd say there are two things for me.

The first is that I'm not a great conversationalist. I'm generally OK when discussing a specific topic (provided it's something I can actually give input on), but when there's a lull in the conversation, I battle to come up with the next thing to talk about. So awkward silences are my stock-in-trade.

I am better in this regard than I used to be, but I don't know if it's ever going to be something that comes naturally to me. The consequence of that is that because I might not do much of the talking, there's the potential for me to come across as not being all that interested in the person I'm trying to get to know, when that's definitely not the case.

That's why I like the idea of online dating as it allows for the opportunity to build a rapport through emails/text messages, which I'm much better at doing. And I think having that rapport before meeting in person has helped to counteract the negative impression that me not being particularly talkative may have given off. And while unfortunately, online dating hasn't resulted in anything substantial for me, I don't think the reasons things didn't work out on any of the occasions were because of that.

The second one is that I've never been in a long-term relationship. So being in my 30s and never having had a girlfriend can be viewed as a red flag, and the reason for never having been in a relationship (basically I'm the textbook definition of an introvert, so I didn't mind keeping to myself, but I fell into the trap of keeping to myself too much and therefore not putting myself in situations where I could meet women) might not be all that well-received. While I suppose it's possible to fudge to truth a little by saying things like "it's been a while" or "I haven't had too many girlfriends", I'm not sure how comfortable I would be doing that.

And that also means that while I'm OK with the first few dates, I don't have any experience in taking a relationship further. Which then opens up the possibility of me making basic mistakes when trying to do that, including maybe not being assertive enough for her liking, which flies in the face of the traditional male role in the relationship.

Probably a couple of things.

1. I am an introvert who doesn't thrive on human interaction and needs long periods of solitude to "recharge". Most people would see this as a defecit or, worse yet, a sign of being anti-social which it is not. I just value my alone time and I operate best when I have been able to be left alone with my thoughts sometimes.

2. I am inexperienced with relationships/dating. Unfortunately people always look for that one reason that might explain what's "wrong" with you because obviously you're not normal at all if you've never had a long term relationship and 10 million exes in your wake. Some just can't accept the fact that dating doesn't come easy to all people and shyness or anxiety might actually be a thing.

1) I will treat you like you are my queen......... never mistake me for a doormat. I will massage your feet, Ill buy your "lady products" while you stay home and cramp, whatever you need me to do.... I will do..... but I take care of you because I choose too... not because I am weak.

2) If/when we argue... and it reaches a point where I storm off.... let me go.

If I get extremely angry I tend to get diarrhea of the mouth... Id rather just leave before I say something stupid I dont mean in the heat of anger that I cant take back.

3) I dont mind if you "smother me" at times..... just don't make it ALL the time.

4) Yes, I AM a huge flirt when I am single, but I shut it off when I become a taken bull. Me saying "Hi" to someone that happens to be a woman.... is NOT me flirting with her. Especially if I am not even really looking at her when I say it.

Thanks for sharing everyone. It's always hard to tell what people might not understand about me.

-Like @leothelioness , I'm also an introvert. It's not something I understood, let alone was proud of, until recent years. I think extroverts have the hardest time understanding how an introvert functions and so we tend to be seen as antisocial, broken, or socially inept. I actually enjoy interacting with others, preferably in small groups or one-on-one. If you're willing to engage in deep conversation, then you may very well have yourself a loyal friend for life. It takes a biblical level of misconduct for me to cut anybody off, and it's only happened maybe 1-2 times in my entire life. I've learned in recent years that introversion is an untapped asset in the American populous, so I'm glad to know I have a resource that I can use to my advantage in the workplace.

-In the words of Tony Stark, I have "breathtaking anger management skills". I really don't get mad much, I keep a very even-keel. If I do, I just give myself some alone time and let it cool off, it usually doesn't take long.

-I'm a creative type, I like to develop ideas for stories, write them, film them and generally try to create compelling works of art (both fiction and non fiction). Some people think that makes me some kind of softy or less than a man. My experience has proven otherwise.

-Being a divorced man under 30, I think people assume I'm some kind of scumbag. That maybe I cheated on my ex-wife or was abusive or something like that. I don't know if it's the beard or what. Anyway, none of that ever happened. We spent three years of a four-year marriage trying to make it work. Counseling, trying to change different things, etc. Ultimately she asked me to leave and had a new boyfriend within a week (whom she slept with). So in the big picture I feel vindicated over the reasons for which we divorced, I think it holds up to scrutiny. She's not a bad person, she's actually a wonderful lady who's confused on a lot of issues, and I am not a divorced scumbag.

-I come with a great family (my parents 35th anniversary was ~10 days ago), who instilled excellent ethics, morals and values into me. I'm polite, I have good manners and I'm an excellent dining companion. I think my affirmation of a moderate worldview makes people believe that I'm either some kind of redneck slob, or a pretentious jerk. I'm neither of those things.

-I'm from Northern California (no, the real Northern California). Up here it's actually a highly conservative area dominated by agriculture and industry. I'm three hours from the Bay Area. I was raised very conservative, but I do not lean towards either extreme anymore. I think balance is critical if we're going to move forward as a society and end the polarization.

Sorry I think I strayed off topic there...

I was visually impaired for a long time and whatever reasons I'm rather sensitive. I won't be driving at night any time soon, on major freeways, recognizing people at distance isn't easy, nor is finding something I misplaced in many cases.

For the sensitive part I prize communication, honesty, and openness about things. People have thought once or twice I'm not straight for how concerned and caring I am (also this voice of mine.. dang. I pass for like 16 and look like I'm 17-18). I try to tone it down, but really it's not easy, and in the end I'll wind up talking about most topics with ease since I'm a conversationalist which permits others to easily open up. With that, I expect prompt communication, and a decent rapport so I can trust you be it a close friend or something more.

I'm not outwardly that tough (I've done martial arts for 7 years, and now teach the youngest students..) or appear masculine personality wise although that's a deceptive initial impression which I'm attempting to shift. I do want to take the proper role, but your opinion matters, and you're going to be listened to very closely so I don't miss something you're trying to convey.

I'm knowledgeable in a broad range of fields, and like to keep it to myself for a long time to not sound like a know it all. I can handle a lot of situations, and am calm through them. One friend I was very honest with initially, and he said I came off an very arrogant. I'm needing to be more reserved and trickle in things slower.

Another quirk that's relevant to the first. I can be kind of heavy with things. I'm a little too sincere, not emotional but just dedicated to what I say, and like to talk about things that matter a little too much. I like novel stuff, but also life, faith, and so forth is important. But it can be too heavy, and I'm trying to work on that.

I'm a bit eccentric. I can't place it, but I have a very diverse set of interests, hobbies, past times, and experiences. So I won't be watching a lot of TV, any sporting events, or the like.

I don't really adhere to mainstream US culture very much, so hopefully you're internationally minded, have traveled some, or somehow survived Hawai'i like I'm trying to do now. I just can't really handle or interact really closely with people who are the impetus of normalcy in America. The women I'm friends with say I'm very different from most guys, and in a good way. However, they're not from the US, and usually I just lose people who grew up in the states on a close friendship basis unless they're a little quirky.