LDS LDS: Celestial Marriage versus Jesus' Teaching

jackcv · Nov 23, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
That's not happening. Why would I taint Biblical understanding with another book. We know that the Bible is enough to prepare man for every act of righteousness.

I respect that. Righteousness is doing the best you can, with what you have, where you are. If you do it with an eye single to serving God and his children, then it is in the name of Jesus Christ. God bless you forever.

ToBeLoved · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
And Jesus said about marriage, "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." How does that apply to Adam and Eve, or to the wives that Nathan gave to David, or the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Or the fathers and children whose hearts must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

Families can be together forever.

"The ultimate end of all activity in the Church is

that a man and his wife and their children might be happy at home,
protected by the principles and laws of the gospel,
sealed safely [together forever] in the covenants of the everlasting priesthood."
Apostle Boyd K Packer

No marriage in heaven is a destructive, demoralizing, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of the Lord's Plan.

How do you reconcile Jesus saying "Let NO MAN put asunder" with eternity.

jackcv · Nov 23, 2015

fatboys said:
No. He was not a prophet or an apostle. I believe that he was inspired to write many of things but did not give a full accounting of the oral traditions that he was able to remember. He was a companion to Peter and was the first to write down the gospel. But his record is probably most accurate. Matthew who was an apostle did not write the gospel of Matthew. No one knows who did. But they must have thought it was good enough because who ever wrote Luke also copied a lot of Mark. I believe that knew Joseph Smith all too well about these writings and was inspired to bring it back to a more pure intent.

Oh, so you don't believe Mark was an inspired writer? Or Matthew or Luke either? Well, that's thoughtful, but it is a fringe position in our church. Good to know where you're coming from. Most of what you write here I agree with.

jackcv · Nov 23, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Oh my, Fatboys and I agree!

Nope.

I don't think so. See #224 above.

ToBeLoved · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
I don't think so. See #224 above.

If you look at the quote, it is from #216

jackcv · Nov 23, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
How do you reconcile Jesus saying "Let NO MAN put asunder" with eternity.

That is a great question. I usually phrase it differently, "How can both of these scriptures possibly be true?"

The answer, as usual, is in further questions:

How does [this Messianic statement] apply to Adam and Eve?
How to the wives that Nathan gave to David?
How about the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? They just go their own ways after this life?
Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Why should they care about children as numerous as the sands of the sea?
Or the fathers and children whose hearts Malachi concludes his book saying must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

ToBeLoved · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
That is a great question. I usually phrase it differently, "How can both of these scriptures possibly be true?"

The answer, as usual, is in further questions:

How does [this Messianic statement] apply to Adam and Eve?

How to the wives that Nathan gave to David?

How about the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? They just go their own ways after this life?

Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Why should they care about children as numerous as the sands of the sea?

Or the fathers and children whose hearts Malachi concludes his book saying must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

What is clear is that in the Bible when a spouse passes away, that that person is then freed from marriage and is able to marry again.

1 Corinthians 7:8–9
8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that cit is good for them to remain single das I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, ethey should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

1 Timothy 5:14
14 So I would have younger widows marry, bear children, manage their households, and wgive the adversary no occasion for slander.

jackcv · Nov 23, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
If you look at the quote, it is from #216

He was responding to the first paragraph of #214. This leads one to worry about your attention to detail, and willingness to reevaluate when given new information.

ToBeLoved · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
That is a great question. I usually phrase it differently, "How can both of these scriptures possibly be true?"

The answer, as usual, is in further questions:

How does [this Messianic statement] apply to Adam and Eve?

How to the wives that Nathan gave to David?

How about the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? They just go their own ways after this life?

Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Why should they care about children as numerous as the sands of the sea?

Or the fathers and children whose hearts Malachi concludes his book saying must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

Why don't you tell me, since you believe this.

ToBeLoved · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
He was responding to the first paragraph of #214. This leads one to worry about your attention to detail, and willingness to reevaluate when given new information.

I said I was replying to the reply in 216.

Also, if you do not want to talk with me, by all means do that. No ones forcing you.

mmksparbud · Nov 23, 2015

jackcv said:
And Jesus said about marriage, "What God has joined together, let no man put asunder." How does that apply to Adam and Eve, or to the wives that Nathan gave to David, or the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Or the fathers and children whose hearts must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

Families can be together forever.

"The ultimate end of all activity in the Church is

that a man and his wife and their children might be happy at home,
protected by the principles and laws of the gospel,
sealed safely [together forever] in the covenants of the everlasting priesthood."
Apostle Boyd K Packer

No marriage in heaven is a destructive, demoralizing, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of the Lord's Plan.

Do you understand what you just said???
"No marriage in heaven is a destructive, demoralizing, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of the Lord's Plan."

So what is your view about what Jesus said?
(Mar 12:25) For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
(Mat 22:30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(Luk 20:34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

This is Christ Himself talking. 3 different apostles say it---not an accidental misquote. What is your opinion on Christ, then? Does He not have the right to say what will be or will not be in heaven, or is that up to Joseph Smith? He said "THE CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD MARRY" Salvation is not a family deal. Sometimes they are saved all together, and it is the ideal, but salvation is an individual matter, God alone decides who is saved. The wife or the spouse of a believer may end up lost. Once the spouse dies, the bond is broken and a spouse is free to remarry. They are not bound to the dead, death ends the bond--it is till death do us part. Who are you or JS or the Mormon church to say that what Jesus Christ says is "destructive, demoralizing,, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of of the Lord's plan"?? HE IS THE LORD!! What He says is the plan! What anyone else says, contrary to His words, is exactly garbage!!

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 · Nov 30, 2015

Ironhold said:
The answer to your question is right in the text of D&C 132 itself.

15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.

16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God.

19 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise, by him who is anointed, unto whom I have appointed this power and the keys of this priesthood; and it shall be said unto them—Ye shall come forth in the first resurrection; and if it be after the first resurrection, in the next resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then shall it be written in the Lamb’s Book of Life, that he shall commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, and if ye abide in my covenant, and commit no murder whereby to shed innocent blood, it shall be done unto them in all things whatsoever my servant hath put upon them, in time, and through all eternity; and shall be of full force when they are out of the world; and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

It's clear as day that if a marriage is not conducted by the proper authority, then the marriage is invalid and the individuals involved in the marriage are as angels. This is in perfect harmony with the passage you cited in Matthew.

question..

According to the LSD..
SAints of LSD church only WILL MARRY IN HEAVEN .. AND if possible super righteous men and women (humans ) become elevated beings and become gods of other multi universes..

Romans 16:17King James Version (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

throughfiierytrial · Nov 30, 2015

jackcv said:
That is a great question. I usually phrase it differently, "How can both of these scriptures possibly be true?"

The answer, as usual, is in further questions:

How does [this Messianic statement] apply to Adam and Eve?

How to the wives that Nathan gave to David?

How about the wives through whom God blessed Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? They just go their own ways after this life?

Or the promised progeny of these great patriarchs? Why should they care about children as numerous as the sands of the sea?

Or the fathers and children whose hearts Malachi concludes his book saying must turn toward each other lest the Lord smite the whole earth with a curse?

Jesus says that divorce was permitted because of the hardness of their hearts...one can safely extrapolate I believe to say that there was a hard heartedness that existed in regards to the LAW. Romans tells us that one of the reasons the LAW was added was so that sin would would increase and sin would become utterly sin, so that mankind could recognize their sinful condition and lead them to the only One who could help them: Jesus.
You as Mormons are handling Scripture in a wreckless, careless way in writing in additional doctrine and it doesn't seem to cause you a bit of pause or hesitation. It's quite frankly nothing short of shocking and alarming...I fear for your souls.

Ironhold · Nov 30, 2015

AGODBELIEVERlove1stfaith2 said:
question..

Before I respond to anything -

Was your typing "LSD" an accident?

ToBeLoved · Nov 30, 2015

mmksparbud said:
Do you understand what you just said???
"No marriage in heaven is a destructive, demoralizing, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of the Lord's Plan."

So what is your view about what Jesus said?
(Mar 12:25) For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
(Mat 22:30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(Luk 20:34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

This is Christ Himself talking. 3 different apostles say it---not an accidental misquote. What is your opinion on Christ, then? Does He not have the right to say what will be or will not be in heaven, or is that up to Joseph Smith? He said "THE CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD MARRY" Salvation is not a family deal. Sometimes they are saved all together, and it is the ideal, but salvation is an individual matter, God alone decides who is saved. The wife or the spouse of a believer may end up lost. Once the spouse dies, the bond is broken and a spouse is free to remarry. They are not bound to the dead, death ends the bond--it is till death do us part. Who are you or JS or the Mormon church to say that what Jesus Christ says is "destructive, demoralizing,, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of of the Lord's plan"?? HE IS THE LORD!! What He says is the plan! What anyone else says, contrary to His words, is exactly garbage!!

fatboys · Dec 1, 2015

mmksparbud said:
Do you understand what you just said???
"No marriage in heaven is a destructive, demoralizing, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of the Lord's Plan."

So what is your view about what Jesus said?
(Mar 12:25) For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.
(Mat 22:30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
(Luk 20:34) And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

This is Christ Himself talking. 3 different apostles say it---not an accidental misquote. What is your opinion on Christ, then? Does He not have the right to say what will be or will not be in heaven, or is that up to Joseph Smith? He said "THE CHILDREN OF THIS WORLD MARRY" Salvation is not a family deal. Sometimes they are saved all together, and it is the ideal, but salvation is an individual matter, God alone decides who is saved. The wife or the spouse of a believer may end up lost. Once the spouse dies, the bond is broken and a spouse is free to remarry. They are not bound to the dead, death ends the bond--it is till death do us part. Who are you or JS or the Mormon church to say that what Jesus Christ says is "destructive, demoralizing,, anti-biblical dogma that strikes at the heart of of the Lord's plan"?? HE IS THE LORD!! What He says is the plan! What anyone else says, contrary to His words, is exactly garbage!!

When the resurrection begins marriages will not be performed. When two people get engaged after the engagement they will marry. After the resurrection people cannot marry. It has to be done before the resurrection. The same is true for those who are given in marriage. It is an earthly ordinance and will no longer be performed after the resurrection.

drstevej · Dec 1, 2015

fatboys said:
When the resurrection begins marriages will not be performed. When two people get engaged after the engagement they will marry. After the resurrection people cannot marry. It has to be done before the resurrection. The same is true for those who are given in marriage. It is an earthly ordinance and will no longer be performed after the resurrection.

In Mormonism, is there post resurrection marital sex?

fatboys · Dec 1, 2015

drstevej said:
In Mormonism, is there post resurrection marital sex?

Don't know

fatboys · Dec 1, 2015

drstevej said:
In Mormonism, is there post resurrection marital sex?

Would that bother you if there were?

drstevej · Dec 1, 2015

Do angels have sex in heaven?

LDS LDS: Celestial Marriage versus Jesus' Teaching

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