Help? Transgender friend?

boozle

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Okay. I'm not new here, I often prowl the forums here without contributing through posting.

So I have a tough situation. Someone I love very much as a close friend came out to me as transgender. I don't know what their intentions are in the (distant) future as far as that goes regarding hormone therapy or SRS or whatever, but that is not relevant. We're in high school.

This friend, he (the person in question is male biologically so I will use male pronouns) has started dating someone else that is of the same biological gender as him. So basically they're two guys. (Except one's a girl? Or is he?)

I don't really know what to think, they're both very faithful Christians or at least present themselves that way and I want to offer insightful advice, although I'm not sure what my stance on this should be. Should I be trying to preach to them and forbidding it or embracing it or ignoring it or what? I'm so confused, and I'd love some advice.

Also something useful to know, I'm not going to just blatantly stop being friends with him because of this... He's still one of my closest and most trustworthy friends.
 

ValleyGal

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and I want to offer insightful advice, although I'm not sure what my stance on this should be. Should I be trying to preach to them and forbidding it or embracing it or ignoring it or what? I'm so confused, and I'd love some advice.

Why do you think you need to offer them advice? Did they ask for advice?
 
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boozle

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ValleyGal said:
Why do you think you need to offer them advice? Did they ask for advice?

I'm sorry, I did not word correctly. I intended to say, instead of, "what my stance should be," more, "how much of my buisness this is."

I mean I know it's his life but I want the best for him, he's my closest friend and I want him to stay out of trouble for his own good. If you had a close friend that was using drugs or committing adultery, would you not try to stop them?

I don't know even how worthy this is of the word "sin," that's why I'm asking for advice from people here.

I'm not trying to sound nosy or anything, I just want what's best for him.
 
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Goodbook

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hmm well are they christians..your friend, his friend? I don't just mean go to church but believers saved and born again?

I think..since your friends are young they will have to answer to their parents if they are still at home. And it's their parents who ought to be the ones discipling them OR an elder in church if their parents aren't believers. They may have more wisdom in dealing with this situation.

Yes it is confusing and its ok to say your are confused by this as I would be. I don't know how it is for them. But God is not the author of confusion so I would just pray for these friends of yours.

I have a friend who is a mum and her daughter had come out as lesbian after failed relationships with men. Her mum is a christian and her daughter was raised a christian. It must be hard for her to accept that her daughter is going against God's will but she still loves her daughter. Obviously, you at some point have to acknowledge that some people don't want to listen to God and follow their own desires and there's not much you can do to dissuade them. But keep them in prayer. Try not to judge. (although often, they are the ones who will say you are judging just by saying the truth which is something they might not like to hear).

Have you seen the movie Transamerica. Apparently this issue is a big thing now. I don't really get why it seems so common these days but certainly could be something to do with drugs, fornication, artificial hormones, broken marriages, incest, adultery and all kinds of stuff and basically living in a world that sin gets everywhere. Satan does have a field day when people are confused about who they are in Christ.
 
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boozle

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Thank you. ^.^

I'm certainly not judging, I'm the guy who has off the cliff liberal views on this kind of stuff. (That doesn't mean I believe God supports it to the fullest, or even at all)

I do believe they are making an effort to keep it secret from their churches and parents.

I have something related to this I'd like to mention but it's probably better suited for the ask a chaplain forum.

Thank you again!
 
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Armoured

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Okay. I'm not new here, I often prowl the forums here without contributing through posting.

So I have a tough situation. Someone I love very much as a close friend came out to me as transgender. I don't know what their intentions are in the (distant) future as far as that goes regarding hormone therapy or SRS or whatever, but that is not relevant. We're in high school.

This friend, he (the person in question is male biologically so I will use male pronouns) has started dating someone else that is of the same biological gender as him. So basically they're two guys. (Except one's a girl? Or is he?)

I don't really know what to think, they're both very faithful Christians or at least present themselves that way and I want to offer insightful advice, although I'm not sure what my stance on this should be. Should I be trying to preach to them and forbidding it or embracing it or ignoring it or what? I'm so confused, and I'd love some advice.

Also something useful to know, I'm not going to just blatantly stop being friends with him because of this... He's still one of my closest and most trustworthy friends.
Short answer is, "what concern is it of yours"? "He's" you're friend, so be his friend. If he asks you for advice or your opinion, give it. But beyond that, don't treat him any differently to how you treat any of your other friends.

Unless he requests you start calling him "her". Then do that.
 
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com7fy8

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If they are hiding it from their families and church, it is possible they already know that their families and church consider what they are doing to be wrong.

But if their families and church have real Christian people, a Christian can be able to tell that someone is not being for real; they might not be fooled, but are praying for them. And someone might have already let them know.

And we are not into controlling people. The Bible does say >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

By the way . . . if they are betraying their families' and church's trust, by deliberately trying to fool them . . . I do not think someone can know how to love another human being, while someone is able to betray trust. So, if they really are betraying their families and church, they are in much more deep trouble, than being confused about what gender they should have. What they are doing is wrong; but if they value their wrong thing more than loving their families and church by being trustworthy, they have a major problem.

But a Christian can sense if they are in real love character or not. And if they have people who can see through them, possibly they are praying for them and letting them come to church so they can hear preaching which can help them and have people who are a good example for them, of how to love.

So, you might talk with him about if he values being a truly honest and loving and trustworthy person. If you are considering having him as a friend, I "suppose" it is your business to know if he is about honesty and real friendship, or if he actually insists on betraying people's trust.

And, "of course", this would go for heterosexual relationships > a guy can't truly love a lady, while he is betraying her by lying to her, abusing her or cheating on her.

If someone is able to betray people, this is a character problem, though; only God is able to change a person's character from being evil enough to betray people; and God alone can have that person become a genuinely loving person. So, we all need to make sure we are becoming genuinely loving people, by trusting You, O God our Father, to truly correct us. If we really desire to get into real loving, we can not betray anyone or just be trying to use people; but care about any and all people.
 
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boozle

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Thank you everyone for your input.

As far as trust goes, I know this person has had issues with that sort of thing with his family especially because of life issues. But I've known him for a long time and as far as my relationship with him goes he has always been completely committed to honesty. He's part of an evangelical church that is just about as far right leaning as it gets, if it makes any sense why he'd have to hide it. He intends to join the Catholic Church once he's out of high school, his parents would not honor that decision. It's a tough situation.
 
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grandvizier1006

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Just be there for your friend and his boyfriend. It seems to me that they are making a decision just because it sounds appealing and would supposedly grant happiness, but it might not. They could break up, for example. Transgendered people have a high rate of suicide. You've already said he didn't trust his parents, so he probably considers you and the boyfriend the only important people in his life. So, you'll have to be there for him no matter what. show him Christian love and compassion, and maybe ask him to re-asses his priorities if disaster strikes.
 
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com7fy8

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Well, if the parents are into a "far right" thing . . . "far right" can be two very different ways >

far self-righteous > with ability to be about control and judging and abusing;

or far into learning the right way to love, meaning they are seeking God for real correction (Hebrews 12:4-11) for their own selves, and they are learning how Jesus has us loving.

In case parents are into a self-righteous thing . . . or if they are just in a church to use people for social reasons . . . they themselves can be hiding sin problems, so they fit in. And a child can pick this up, but the child might not want to use a church for social acceptance. So, the child can find another way to go, and this could be "awkward" for the parents who might want to show everyone how well they have brought up their children. And then "what goes around comes around" > the parents have been covering up things so they can use people, and now the child is covering things up with those parents.

So, my opinion is, if you know the parents are for real and therefore trustworthy, tell them. And maybe talk with him first and make the point of how he full well should know they are trustworthy and therefore truly love him. And he should know better. Make the point that if they really love him, and are not just worried about how his behavior could make them look, then they care about him, and he should know they will accept him and still love him.

If you can be sure they are doing a chameleon thing . . . I am not sure about trusting them, then. I think, in any case, you need to start with someone you know for sure is really Christian with good example, and if this is not a parent, leave it up to a mature adult to deal with the parents. The wife of a real pastor can be easier to approach.

But, "of course", you might not really know the parents. If you are not sure about the parents, the pastor's wife could be easier to approach; and she could have a pretty good chance of knowing how the parents are, and she with her husband can know what to do :)
 
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Goodbook

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Well im not sure about the catholic church as not in it but I would be wary of the priests as they had covered up a lot of child abuse. Also those priests are not married in the RCC as they actually forbid it. Not that theres things wrong with being celibate but they cannot be an example of a loving marriage.

So. I think if your friends are lying to their parents and thus lying to themselves they are in deception so I think you just have to pray that God will bring them out of darkness.
 
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boozle

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I will read the rest of this later due to AP Homework, but to clarify when I say far-right, I mean in their political and ideological philosophy.

Edits:
When someone calls this "destructive" I can't help but disagree in some aspects. What are they actually doing that is forbidden? I'm not trying to turn this into a debate, but it's not like they're committing Sodomy.

Also, I am a member of the RCC myself and the priests don't have wives. Although I have trust in my parish's priests, I have no reason not to. So should I go to them about this, perhaps without revealing their identities?
 
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Goodbook

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Not sure what they are 'doing' but if they are fornicating whether same sex or opposite sex it would be wrong.

As they dont belong to your church i dont see how going to a catholic priest would help them. It would be more for yourself. You can always ask a chaplain on here who might be more familar with their evangelical church for counsel on how they would handle it and what they would advise or say.
 
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grandvizier1006

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I will read the rest of this later due to AP Homework, but to clarify when I say far-right, I mean in their political and ideological philosophy.

Edits:
When someone calls this "destructive" I can't help but disagree in some aspects. What are they actually doing that is forbidden? I'm not trying to turn this into a debate, but it's not like they're committing Sodomy.

Also, I am a member of the RCC myself and the priests don't have wives. Although I have trust in my parish's priests, I have no reason not to. So should I go to them about this, perhaps without revealing their identities?
That sounds like a good idea.
 
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aiki

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So I have a tough situation. Someone I love very much as a close friend came out to me as transgender. I don't know what their intentions are in the (distant) future as far as that goes regarding hormone therapy or SRS or whatever, but that is not relevant. We're in high school.

This friend, he (the person in question is male biologically so I will use male pronouns) has started dating someone else that is of the same biological gender as him. So basically they're two guys. (Except one's a girl? Or is he?)

I don't really know what to think, they're both very faithful Christians or at least present themselves that way and I want to offer insightful advice, although I'm not sure what my stance on this should be.

Well, if you want to respond as a disciple of Christ, if you want to honor God and truly love your friend, then you must tell him that his "transgenderism" is sin and that God promises judgment and death (Ro. 6:23; Ga. 6:8) upon those who live in sin. I would also remind you that Scripture is very clear that anyone carrying on in a homosexual lifestyle is not part of God's kingdom and cannot enter into His kingdom (1Cor. 6:9) until they repent of their sin and turn to God for cleansing and healing. If your friend thinks he is a Christian, he needs to think again. According to the Bible, his decision to act in a homosexual way with his "boyfriend" is an abomination to God, and a testimony to the fact of your friend's spiritual lostness.

Apart from the sin issue, your friend is also behaving in a profoundly irrational way. If he came to you and said he believed deep inside he was really a chicken, that he had always felt drawn to feathers, and pecking and scratching in the dirt, you would probably want to laugh. But if it was clear to you he was absolutely serious, then as a good friend to this guy, you ought to be very concerned about his psychological state. Your friend has told you that, in spite of being a guy, he thinks he is a girl. He doesn't have female chromosomes; he'll never have a period; he'll never be pregnant; he doesn't have any of the normal female plumbing; but he does have all of the typical physical characteristics of a male. No matter what your friend may feel, then, the reality of his situation is that he is not a woman but a young man. When people start denying reality, they generally do so because they are psychologically sick, not courageous. Your friend, if he is truly serious about his "transgenderism," if he is not just being faddish about his new self-perception, is not being brave, or being true to himself, but demonstrating that he is ill in his mind. As a friend to this guy, you should help him get his thinking right.

Selah.
 
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com7fy8

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Nonsense. Stop conflating transgenderism with homosexual acts. Utterly different issues.
The two can be connected. Because if a man decides he is going to change himself so he thinks he is a female, and then act as a female with men . . . this is homosexuality. And, to my knowledge, this can be included in someone's motive for seeking to be of the other gender . . . so the person can then function as the opposite sex, with someone of that person's same sex.

Also, it is bearing false witness about how God has created the person. And it is deception by acting and showing he is what he is not. So, it is sin, also, in these ways.

God has made his body for functioning as a man; so this is God's will. So, it is sin to deny God's will and go against this. The man can get with God in love and joy and peace, so he becomes able to know what he is for and enjoy this, and be good and help people.

But . . . I will offer > his physical gender is not his main identity. Either he is with Satan in sin and Satan's kingdom and therefore his identity is that he is a child of Satan; or he is a child of God, living in God's love in God's kingdom. His gender is only the sexual identity of his physical body.

It is sin which makes him unable to do well with the fact that he is a man. If he is having problems because of sin, he does not need to go along with sinful self-deception about how God created his body and genes; he needs to get with God so he is accepting what is true . . . and finding out how to do what is right as a man.

So . . . then . . . why according to the Bible do you believe that other-gender faking and imitating is not sin? The motives behind it are a big part, by the way, for if it is sin or not. So, if you really believe it is not sin, why? by what authority? I have offered scripture and some basic Christian standards. And I have brought out how betraying trust can be involved, by misleading and tricking people into thinking what is not true.

If he's having problems being a man, he can get with God so His creator can have him discover all the good he can be and do as a man; so if instead he tries to retreat to trying to make himself female, this is not trusting God and learning with God. Every man, by the way, needs to get with God so we can find out how really to be men. Every male born in sin has had problems with how to be a male.

And in God's love we can be strong, and we can become creative to use what God has given to us. So, if he can't handle being created a man, sin is what can keep us from benefitting from what God has given to us. And we do not need to fake a gender change in order to be able to relate well with people; we need how God's love alone can change our hearts so we can relate well with any and all people. So, gender faking is sin if it is an attempt to get into desirable relating with someone else > because only God's love can change us so we find out how to relate in love with people.
 
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Armoured

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The two can be connected. Because if a man decides he is going to change himself so he thinks he is a female, and then act as a female with men . . . this is homosexuality. And, to my knowledge, this can be included in someone's motive for seeking to be of the other gender . . . so the person can then function as the opposite sex, with someone of that person's same sex.

Also, it is bearing false witness about how God has created the person. And it is deception by acting and showing he is what he is not. So, it is sin, also, in these ways.

God has made his body for functioning as a man; so this is God's will. So, it is sin to deny God's will and go against this. The man can get with God in love and joy and peace, so he becomes able to know what he is for and enjoy this, and be good and help people.

But . . . I will offer > his physical gender is not his main identity. Either he is with Satan in sin and Satan's kingdom and therefore his identity is that he is a child of Satan; or he is a child of God, living in God's love in God's kingdom. His gender is only the sexual identity of his physical body.

It is sin which makes him unable to do well with the fact that he is a man. If he is having problems because of sin, he does not need to go along with sinful self-deception about how God created his body and genes; he needs to get with God so he is accepting what is true . . . and finding out how to do what is right as a man.

So . . . then . . . why according to the Bible do you believe that other-gender faking and imitating is not sin? The motives behind it are a big part, by the way, for if it is sin or not. So, if you really believe it is not sin, why? by what authority? I have offered scripture and some basic Christian standards. And I have brought out how betraying trust can be involved, by misleading and tricking people into thinking what is not true.

If he's having problems being a man, he can get with God so His creator can have him discover all the good he can be and do as a man; so if instead he tries to retreat to trying to make himself female, this is not trusting God and learning with God. Every man, by the way, needs to get with God so we can find out how really to be men. Every male born in sin has had problems with how to be a male.

And in God's love we can be strong, and we can become creative to use what God has given to us. So, if he can't handle being created a man, sin is what can keep us from benefitting from what God has given to us. And we do not need to fake a gender change in order to be able to relate well with people; we need how God's love alone can change our hearts so we can relate well with any and all people. So, gender faking is sin if it is an attempt to get into desirable relating with someone else > because only God's love can change us so we find out how to relate in love with people.
If a transgender person has sex with someone, then there may be homosexual activity, sue. But it's not inherent to being transgendered. There are actually a number of celibate transgender people who post on this very forum.

As for "bearing false witness", I suggest you go look up what it means.
 
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aiki

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Being transgender is no more sinful than having any other medically recognised condition, and it's certainly not a matter of choice.

I don't believe that. I think transgenderism and all the other assorted sexual aberrations rising in western societies are symptomatic of their having turned away from the Ground of All Reality, who is God, to embrace fantasy, and illusion, and insanity instead. You really can't do the former without doing the latter. And as western cultures persist in their movement away from God, the denial of reality and pursuit of mad fantasies will only increase.

Selah.
 
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