What's in it for HaSatan?

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

danny ski said:
What I don't understand is that there is a belief that there is an angel that actually turned against Gd and is planning to go to war against the all knowing, all powerful and all seeing Creator. I find the idea of the satanic contender incredulous.

Hey Danny, how is Dar?

I agree, the notion of some one attempting to contend with our Sovereign Author is completely rediculous!

In my estimation, our Father is mocking the disbelief of his own children, and handing whosoever does not believe the תורת (towruth) over to a delusion as promised.

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

Hoshiyya said:
Actually I think it relates to this passage:

Ps. 8:
5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

We read that despite being lower than the angels, all things are under his (Adam's) feet, particularly the beasts of the field. The serpent is called the most clever of the beasts of the field, and it says the son of man (2nd Adam) will step upon the serpent.

מָה אֱנוֹשׁ כִּי תִזְכְּרֶנּוּ וּבֶן אָדָם כִּי תִפְקְדֶנּוּ:
Who is A'nowsh, that you should consider him, or the Son of Adam, that you should vist him;
וַתְּחַסְּרֵהוּ מְּעַט מֵאֱלֹהִים וְכָבוֹד וְהָדָר תְּעַטְּרֵהוּ:
For you have made him a מעט (mowt) 'miniture' Elohym, and Crowned him with H'dar (Glory), and K'bowd (honor); [Psalms 8:6 Tanakh]

Adam was created in the image and likeness of Elohym, not lessor than a מלאכ (m'lak), who is but a messenger of Elohym;

How can the Sovereign ruler of the kingdom be lessor than a messenger of the kingdom?

Twice I have received correction from an angel, and both times I was told, "We can not say that you are wrong!"

Upon hearing these words I knew two things imediately, one, I better rethink whatsoever it was I was contimplating at that moment, and two, whosoever was speaking to me spoke to me as if I were greater than them.

Crowned with כבוד Laurel means he was given a Halo which is a token of The Covenant, in that such a bearer is endowed with divine, gifts, and illumination, and otherwise receives direct comunicae with Elohym via the Son;

I believe the Crown of H'dar is actually a Leah (wreath) of Dar (pearls), worn around ones neck to indicate the vocal chords precious ability to speak as a prophet;

Furthermore, I believe that this biblical passage portrays both Adam and Eve of whom Seth (the Son of Adam) was begotten;

The head of A'nowsh is H'Meshiyach, aka the Son of Adam (Seth), and a Crown of K'bowd is placed upon his head;

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

Hoshiyya said:
"So what is the difference?"

The difference is the actual verses.

Ps. 8:
5For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.
6Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
7All sheep and oxen, yea, and the beasts of the field;

We read that despite being lower than the angels, v.5
all things are under his (Adam's) feet, v.6
particularly the beasts of the field, v.7.

The serpent is called the most clever of the beasts of the field, Ge. 3, and the same chapter says the son of man (2nd Adam) will step upon the serpent.

This relates very directly to the story of Michael telling Satan to bow/prostrate before Adam.

Yet who is Michael (Like Elohym)? If not Adam who was created in His Likeness!

The pride-ego of Adam-Mankind is Satan, Michael and his Angels come to battle their own ego's.

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

sickntired771 said:
What I don't understand is if he knows how it's gonna end why is he doing this? He knows he can't defeat God so what's his gain to cause problems in the meanwhile.

Satan is our disbelief!

Elohym created Adam & Eve in His own image and Likeness, yet Eve did not believe, or else she would not of had the reason to attempt to be Like Elohym.

Y'shua was tested in the same manner, to see if he had any doubt of who he is, or what Elohym has testified;

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

sickntired771 said:
Well the analogy to someone knowing they are going to die and doing as they please in hedonism is a good one but even if Satan knows he will be defeated, what is his gain in causing suffering to all? What joy or benefit does he get by causing a child to suffer with cancer or to create a rift in a relationship?

There are two Satans-Adversaries those who find the concerns of a man more important than the concerns of Elohym, are the Adversary of Elohym, and Elohym is circumstantially an Adversary to them;

If we do not believe Elohym, we make him out to be a liar;

And if we do not possess a Love for His truth, He hands us over to a delusion, and causes us to believe in a lie.

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

Hoshiyya said:
I don't think he supposes he can "defeat" God, who is intangible and omnipotent. I don't see that narrative in Scripture.

However I think he is probably not of clear mind, and chooses for whatever reason to oppose nature and the law of God, and do "opposite" things.

Imagine a person who has a terminal disease, and knows he will die, so he decides to make his last days a party, not caring about anything else but "living life" as he chooses. He is not a rational being. Yeshua, the Logos, has the power of true wisdom and logic, Satan does not.

He might actually be really, really delusional. Maybe he thinks he is the good guy. Maybe he thinks he is an integral part of the creation, and that if God really wanted him to stop, he would just stop him, so the fact that God does not prevent him is taken as approbation.

You just described my fellow man who leans upon his own understanding, and gleans from the princes (educated men) to formulate a path of self righteousness;

Laureate · Nov 1, 2015

Iscah said:
In an effort to understand reality, I'm deeply interested in learning more about God and the interactions He has with His creation and vice versa. So I would like your thoughts on the issue of HaSatan. What's in it for him? Why does he do what he does? What is his role? Is he just a fallen angel or is he also (willingly or unwillingly) God's prosecuting attorney? Why would he rebel, especially after being gifted with such wisdom and enjoying such intimacy with God? More importantly, what does he get out of rebelling? It seems to me as futile as a child's temper tantrum and I'm not gifted with even a fraction of the intelligence of the heavenly host. I often hear that HaSatan just wants the entire world to worship him instead of God. While I agree with that statement, it feels a bit incomplete. Why would he go through the trouble of doing all this if it's all in vain? With his intelligence, he must understand that. Also, what does HaSatan's behavior say about intelligence as an attribute?

This is probably all part of a larger Biblical subtext on the futility of pride and rebelling against God and His ways. But I'd still love to hear what you think.

Also, I've heard a few people say they believe that, in the end, God will redeem every aspect of His creation, including the fallen angels and the nephilim. I think the concept is interesting (although I don't know if it's actually Biblical), so I'd like to hear what you guys think about that as well.

Shalom, guys! Happy Sukkot!

As Danny pointed out, the concept of an Angel who is sent, and speaks words of his own, is a rediculous attempt to undermined the Sovereign Author's concept of an Angel;

An angel is a Messenger Sent by Elohym, they do not send them selves nor do they put words in their own mouths, that is what makes them Angels;

Paul was sent the Messenger of Satan to buffet him three times, and when he asked to have it removed, the buffetting of Satan was called Grace from heaven's perspective;

The angel of Ea'huah stood in the way as Satan (an adversary) when Balaam desired to please the concerns of men;

"And Balaam rose up in the morning, and saddled his ass, and went with the princes of Moab.

And Elohym's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of Ea'huah stood in the way for an Adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him." [Numbers 22:21-22]

Again the anger of Ea'huah represents Satan in the story where David numbers Israel, for the story is told twice, once in 2nd Samuel, and again in 1st Chronicles;

One version starts off, And Satan provoked David to number Israel, and the other reads, And the anger of Ea'huah moved David to number Israel;

Thus the Anger of Ea'huah Elohym is a personification of Satan, yet it is the pride, and disbelief of man that angers him.

Consider the story of Job, what kind of loving Deity would testify to the righteousness of His son, then take the word of a known liar to reek havoc on His own beloved son?

It's just not gonna happen, Satan was Job's alter ego, saying, Golly shucks, I'm only perfect because you have blessed me, and protect me, but remove the protection and I will curse you to your face like any one else who is without your protection;

And Elohym proved Job to be a Liar!

sahjimira · Nov 12, 2015

I think Satan knowing he's going to lose in the end is bent on creating as much destruction as possible to spite God. Draw away and deceive as many people as possible.

BukiRob · Nov 13, 2015

sahjimira said:
Pride which God hates personified in Satan. I've often wondered the same since he knows what the end will be..maybe his enormous pride makes him think he actually change things and sin. God did use him as found in Job. That is interesting. God even is the One who pointed out Job to Satan. God had something to teach Job and God knows best how each one of us learns but He was with Job the whole time. Job did learn and is an example to us that we may know God in our minds but not our hearts.. aslo Be is with us always.

I don't think so... scripture states: "For this reason, rejoice, O heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has only a short time."

Rev 12:7-9
And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels waging war with the dragon. The dragon and his angels waged war, but the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. And the great dragon was thrown down, the serpent of old who is called the devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

Satan took his shot at overthrowing G-d and didn't even come close. He knows how this all ends for him. His goal at this point is to hurt Adonai by destroying as much of mankind as he can. For G-d so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son...How much more hurt can he inflict on G-d's heart by destroying as many of mankind as he can? If Adonai loves us so much that he would ask Yeshua to die in our place... unthinkable love. How much pain and grief must it cause the Father when HaSatan is creating so much devastation.

Elihoenai · Nov 13, 2015

John 8:23 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

23 and he said to them, `Ye are from beneath, I am from above; ye are of this world, I am not of this world;

Elihoenai · Nov 30, 2015

It appears that the Devil is making the Wonderful Claim that he is Yeshua and this claim is believed by many, who give Power to the Devil.

Can you count the number of the Beast and is the Devil hairy?

Revelation 13:8-10 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

8 And bow before it shall all who are dwelling upon the land, whose names have not been written in the scroll of the life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world;

9 if any one hath an ear -- let him hear:

10 if any one a captivity doth gather, into captivity he doth go away; if any one by sword doth kill, it behoveth him by sword to be killed; here is the endurance and the faith of the saints.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

2 And we ask you, brethren, in regard to the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and of our gathering together unto him,

2 that ye be not quickly shaken in mind, nor be troubled, neither through spirit, neither through word, neither through letters as through us, as that the day of Christ hath arrived;

3 let not any one deceive you in any manner, because -- if the falling away may not come first, and the man of sin be revealed -- the son of the destruction,

visionary · Nov 30, 2015

Things we do know. HaSatan is a leader of angels. He was on the "left" side of God. He is full of knowledge. He is full of pride. He gets blamed for all the evil in this world. He is the prosecutor in God's court room. He wages war in heaven. He gets kicked out of heaven. He rules the world, kingdoms, and nations. He is the epitome of all evil. He burns in the lake of fire in the end.

Norbert L · Dec 3, 2015

visionary said:
Things we do know. HaSatan is a leader of angels. He was on the "left" side of God. He is full of knowledge. He is full of pride. He gets blamed for all the evil in this world. He is the prosecutor in God's court room. He wages war in heaven. He gets kicked out of heaven. He rules the world, kingdoms, and nations. He is the epitome of all evil. He burns in the lake of fire in the end.

And then there's 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, he has beliefs about creation, how people should act within the nations of this world and people are buying it. A deceiver of this world. Revelation 20:7-8 Its a reason why topics like abortion, marriage are being debated and in large the people are willingly enslaved to his ideology and defend his positions on those topics within these discussion boards.

sunsurfkdt · Dec 6, 2015

Hoshiyya said:
I don't think he supposes he can "defeat" God, who is intangible and omnipotent. I don't see that narrative in Scripture.

However I think he is probably not of clear mind, and chooses for whatever reason to oppose nature and the law of God, and do "opposite" things.

Imagine a person who has a terminal disease, and knows he will die, so he decides to make his last days a party, not caring about anything else but "living life" as he chooses. He is not a rational being. Yeshua, the Logos, has the power of true wisdom and logic, Satan does not.

He might actually be really, really delusional. Maybe he thinks he is the good guy. Maybe he thinks he is an integral part of the creation, and that if God really wanted him to stop, he would just stop him, so the fact that God does not prevent him is taken as approbation.

Yeah since mental illness, sickness etc come from Satan...that's possible

sunsurfkdt · Dec 6, 2015

sickntired771 said:
Well the analogy to someone knowing they are going to die and doing as they please in hedonism is a good one but even if Satan knows he will be defeated, what is his gain in causing suffering to all? What joy or benefit does he get by causing a child to suffer with cancer or to create a rift in a relationship?

He's evil. He gets great joy in it.

visionary · Dec 6, 2015

sahjimira said:
I think Satan knowing he's going to lose in the end is bent on creating as much destruction as possible to spite God. Draw away and deceive as many people as possible.

I too, think there is an all out insanity in his doings, something like jhadists who have not thought it through to the end. I also think that he thinks that if he can prove that no one can keep His commandments, or lose faith in Yeshua, he wins by default.

pinacled · Dec 8, 2015

Laureate said:
There are two Satans-Adversaries those who find the concerns of a man more important than the concerns of Elohym, are the Adversary of Elohym, and Elohym is circumstantially an Adversary to them;

If we do not believe Elohym, we make him out to be a liar;

And if we do not possess a Love for His truth, He hands us over to a delusion, and causes us t
Brother,
I beg of you please forgive me.

I have deceived you and our father. I took you place with a hairy mantle. Long ago a blessing was given.

Please will you lead on ahead with your company.
I will stay behind.

I am unworthy of my own brother.

Yet I cant help this heart of mine. It sees him and it is in the midst of travail to see his Son.
o believe in a lie.

pinacled · Dec 8, 2015

Brother,
I beg of you please forgive me.

I have deceived you and our father. I took your place with a hairy mantle. Long ago a blessing was given.

Please will you lead on ahead with your company.
I will stay behind.

I am unworthy of my own brother.

Yet I cant help this heart of mine. It sees him and it is in the midst of travail to see his Son.

Why do I see this Lily upon a pillar. and the same flower seems to bloom twice every year.
All that i have been given I will give. I can only hope that a Widows Son will be given new Life,

pinacled · Dec 8, 2015

pinacled said:
Brother,
I beg of you please forgive me.

I have deceived you and our father. I took your place with a hairy mantle. Long ago a blessing was given.

Please will you lead on ahead with your company.
I will stay behind.

I am unworthy of my own brother.

Yet I cant help this heart of mine. It sees him and it is in the midst of travail to see his Son.

Why do I see this Lily upon a pillar. and the same flower seems to bloom twice every year.
All that i have been given I will give. I can only hope that a Widows Son will be given new Life,

Laureate · Dec 9, 2015

pinacled said:
Brother,
I beg of you please forgive me.

I have deceived you and our father. I took your place with a hairy mantle. Long ago a blessing was given.

Please will you lead on ahead with your company.
I will stay behind.

I am unworthy of my own brother.

Yet I cant help this heart of mine. It sees him and it is in the midst of travail to see his Son.

Why do I see this Lily upon a pillar. and the same flower seems to bloom twice every year.
All that i have been given I will give. I can only hope that a Widows Son will be given new Life,

The lily is offered to the dearly departed, and a pillar represents a permanent structure in the temple, while others go in and out, the pillar remains;

The position of a pillar is given unto those who receive the promise made unto the Angel, and Congregation of Philadelphia;

I would be more curious as to what time(s) of the year that you see it in bloom.

There is no need to ask for forgiveness here, from my perspective, all are forgiven, because I personally desire to be forgiven, besides those who receive forgiveness receive it from on high, for when we sin, we transgress against that one;

Though I may be in the dark as it pertains to details here and there, I do not see how your discretion can be counted as deception.

Yet, a clarification may spare me from battling needless speculations, if, and when your ready, we can converse privately via FB messenger;

What's in it for HaSatan?

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