Biblical Evidence or Verses for the Sinner's Prayer.

nobdysfool said:

Stop trying to put words i n my mouth. i was very clear about what I said, but you're trying to read all kinds of other stuff into it. Knock it off!

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You said yourself that if a believer sins they are not in any danger in the afterlife in any way. This means that you are exempt from God's laws. In other words it would be like a law that passed that said you can now do whatever speed limit you want on the high way (and the speed limit posting now is just suggestive for safety reasons). Hence, if there is no punishment to a law anymore, it does not have any force to get people to obey it. It is as if it now does not exist. For if people knew that they would not be punished for disobeying the speed limit, more people would speed. You believe that a believer is to uphold God's laws, but they are not really necessary to do so ultimately because one can still make it into heaven and disobey God's laws (according to your world view).

You quoted Rom 8:4. I said read the whole chapter. Pay attention!

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Do not insult me. I have read Romans 8 many times. But you are failing to explain what Romans 8:4 means (Which does not help to prove your case in any way).

The Law of Moses has been superseded by the New Covenant, or Law of Grace. Why? Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses. Completely.

No one is arguing that. I totally agree that we fulfillJesus commandments by walking by the spirit. Stop trying to make it appear that I disagree.

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But you do disagree. When you tell others that their are no afterlife dire consequences to sinning, you are giving some people a license to sin whether you want that to happen or not.

Also, Jesus did not fulfill the moral law whereby it was abrogated now. Even Paul says in Romans 13 that if we love our neighbor we will fulfill the aspect of the Old Law like not coveting, etc.

I have seen you say that we must dredge up and confess every sin we can remember in order to remain saved.

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I do not believe a person coming to the faith for the first time has to confess every single sin in order to be saved. Simply admitting that they are a sinner and or that they have sinned and need to be forgiven of that sin by Jesus is the first step in their walk in Christ (Who is the source of their salvation).

But if a believer sins again, they have to confess of their sin so as to be forgiven of it.

Where is Grace? When you received Christ, your sins were forgiven. Why dredge them up again? They have already been removed, as far as the east is from the west. God doesn't remember them anymore.

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Only past sins. God does not remove present unrepentant sin or future sin. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever teach such a thing. For one it goes against the holiness of God for the Lord to allow one of His people to continue in rebellion against Him. Second, it appears that one's argument suggests they have something to gain (By defending possible sin in their own life or by possibly defending sin in others). So I do not see your argument as being selfless and good but as a selfish one that is focused on self and not God because your belief makes room for a person to think they can abide in horrible unrepentant sin and still be saved.

Good grief! You keep changing the paradigm. If you sin, once, you are not in danger of losing your salvation, and you certainly haven't lost it. Grace, Jason. Your view ignores the Grace of God. Now, if it becomes habitual, repeat sinning, there is the Father's discipline. Once you're a child of God, you fall under His discipline for habitual sin. His discipline is an aspect of His Grace.

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But that is not really a deterrent for someone who wants their sin, though. They will think they can serve two masters. But Jesus said you cannot serve two masters. But in your belief, you can.

Consider this:

1Co 5:1-5 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. (2) And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. (3) For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. (4) When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, (5) you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
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Paul didn't indicate that this man had lost his salvation. Rather, paul called for them to turn this man over to Satan to be destroyed in the flesh, so that the man's spirit would be saved. Loss of Salvation? Nope.

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If a man's spirit is not saved, that means he is not saved. I am not sure how you can not see that.

If you are a Christian, you are no longer counted as unrighteous. The heathen are unrighteous. The Christian is not.

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No. The Scriptures say God is not a respecter of persons. Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Your teaching that a believer can sin and still be saved is a doctrine that allows for ungodliness (and it is against Godliness).

Then why do you advocate works to remain saved? Works flow from faith. Walking in the Spirit, doing what HE leads you to do, not busy-work, "doing something for Jesus" indiscriminately. A lot of damage is done to the Gospel witness by over-zealous people who think they can do practically anything and stick the name of Jesus onto it, and somehow that will count as good works.

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I do not believe man directed works save anyone. I believe works in a true believer's life are God directed works and WILL be present in their life because Christ (God) lives within them.

Lots of misinterpretation in your commentary on the above verses.

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Just saying so does not mean you are right. You need to show by the context that you are right.

When I mentioned a break in fellowship with God (over sin) I was not meaning any kind of a situation where the break was of long duration. You seem to think that the moment a Christian sins, they have lost their salvation. That is not biblical.

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Nowhere did I ever suggest that the instant a believer sins, they lose salvation and Christ. God first leads a person to repent. If they keep refusing to do so, then God will depart from them. Also, there are cases where a believer's sin was very serious and it caused God to immmediately judge them by destroying them physically (Whereby they then forfeited their salvation). Ananais and Saphirra are just one case as an example.

You run off half-cocked and put words in peoples' mouths that they did not say because you refuse to be corrected by anyone.

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I am merely saying a truth that you refuse to except. If you are exempt from God's laws salvation wise that means you are not under law of any kind. You are free to just believe in Jesus and be saved no matter what sins you commit.

You don't answer what people say to you, you talk past them and vomit out the same old stuff that we are trying to correct you on. if you're unteachable, just say so, and we'll ignore you.

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I talk past what people say because they are dishonest about what they believe. They are not even consistent in what they believe. They say on one hand they uphold God's laws but then make allowance to then disobey them. Choose this day in whom ye will serve.

Side Note:

Also, chastisement is not a true deterrent for someone who wants the pleasure of their sin. For bad things happen to both good and bad people.


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I know you like to believe that it is not okay for Christians to sin. But that is not possible if you tell others that there are no dire after-life consequences for their sin. It is giving the believer the thumbs up to sin, even if that is not your intended desire. For example: If there were no consequences in eating whatever a person wants because of some natural cure all drug for weight loss, more people would eat whatever they wanted. It doesn't matter if you desired for them to lose weight the proper way. For this cure is not to replace exercise or eating healthy in order to be strong and healthy.


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Also, if I am wrong in assuming the worst, how is your belief personally working in your life? Has it helped you to become more sensitive to sin and or to overcome it? Has your life been changed righteously or in a good way?



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nobdysfool said:

You wouldn't believe me if I told you. it's working fine. I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that i have been a Christian and walked with the Lord longer than you've been alive. For you to attempt to pass judgment and lecture me on my walk, and what I believe, would be funny if it wasn't so serious.

You're skimming the surface of the Scriptures, looking for little soundbites to prop up what you think you see. Your view of 2 Peter 3:9 alone is proof that yours is a soundbite theology, a mile wide, and a quarter of an inch deep. if you were to actually think about that verse, you would realize that your view makes it impossible for Jesus to return. Chew on that one a while....

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You allow for believers to sin and still be saved on some level or in certain cases. You essentially said so yourself. Also, if you have not grieved over your sin with God, then you haven't repented (which would lead to fruits worthy of repentance).


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sdowney717 said:

Perhaps those who continue to sin so much are not converted at all.
Where is the transforming power of the Holy Spirit in their life? Of no effect it seems.

Romans 6, we are dead to sin, so sin does not reign in those who are saved, they do not sin as John the apostle says, we are in Christ if the Holy Spirit has made you born of God, and that can not be undone..
This is important teaching here not to be ignored.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him. 10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

OK now how about it, for your own sake, do you really believe this!

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

And Colossians 3, if you were raised with Christ, THEN these things apply, otherwise your still a slave to sin and unsaved.
See a truly saved born of God believer is dead, there life hid with Christ in God. They have DIED to SIN, sin no longer reigns over them in life.
Those who say they believe, well they should be walking as Christ walked, else maybe they are false brethren.

Colossians 3New King James Version (NKJV)
Not Carnality but Christ
3 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.

3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ who is our life appears, then you also will appear with Him in glory.

5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience, 7 in which you yourselves once walked when you lived in them.

8 But now you yourselves are to put off all these: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth. 9 Do not lie to one another, since you have put off the old man with his deeds, 10 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.

Character of the New Man
12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13 bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do.14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15 And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful. 16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. 17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.

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I agree.

nobdysfool said:

For that logic to be true, then you MUST believe that even one sin can take away the salvation of a believer, if they don't do as you insist, and go through the whole repentance-ask forgiveness dance, with the weeping and wailing-feeling profoundly remorseful-doing penance rigamarole. For post after post, thread after thread, that has been what you preach. I'm surprised you don't advocate self-flagellation, with whips embedded with sharp metal objects, too.

The fact of the matter is, you really don't understand what the crucifixion accomplished, along with the burial and resurrection of Jesus. You don't understand where that puts a believer, positionally.




I am doing nothing of the sort. And you betray your negative view of all believers. You don't understand the power of the Holy Spirit to keep the believer from sin, and I think I know why: most of the people who mumble the words of the sinner's prayer (so-called), are not actually saved, so their slipping back into sin is virtually guaranteed, because they have never been delivered from sin in the first place. Just because someone says they have believed on Christ, doesn't mean they actually have. Intellectual assent is not belief, it is not faith, it is merely a mental acceptance of some historical facts on an intellectual level.

This is where your entire theological construct collapses. You don't understand what it means to call on the Lord. You don't understand that calling on the Lord is done from the heart, not the head, not the emotions (churches are skilled at manipulating the emotions to add to their number). You don't understand that unless the Lord quickens the heart of the one who calls, that call is unheard. God is not fooled.



Poor analogy, further betraying your lack of understanding of the keeping power of the Holy Spirit for true Christians. You have much to learn.

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I also DO believe it only takes one sin to separate God and man. For if it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to fall out of fellowship with God (Whereby they needed a Savior), then that means it is true for everyone else.

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nobdysfool said:

So if one sins, and doesn't immediately repent to the level that you think is acceptable, have they lost their Salvation?

And I notice, you avoid addressing most of what I say, and cherry-pick the rest for what you think you can turn to your advantage. it's not working. Other people are beginning to notice that you won't answer the hard questions that might actually prove your works-based salvation wrong.

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Yes, if a believer refuses to repent, then they would not be saved. Ever read Luke 13:3? Also, what do you make of this passage?

Romans 2:6-9
(Good News Translation)
"For God will reward each of us according to what we have done. Some people keep on doing good, and seek glory, honor, and immortal life; to them God will give eternal life. Other people are selfish and reject what is right, in order to follow what is wrong; on them God will pour out his anger and fury. There will be suffering and pain for all those who do what is evil, for the Jews first and also for the Gentiles."

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AndOne said:

There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Rom 8:1

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And you're not quoting the entire verse.

"There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" (Romans 8:1).

For the key words you are leaving out in not being under the Condemnation is not only in being in Christ Jesus but it is to:

(a) Walk after the Spirit
(b) And walk not after the flesh.

What else does the "Condemnation" say in Scripture?

"And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God." (John 3:19-21).

Did you catch that?

Verse 20 says all who do evil hate the light.

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nobdysfool said:

Explain to us what the Crucifixion accomplished and how that translates to the Believer in their daily life. Where does Scripture say we are? What is our standing before God? is Salvation a revolving door? Surely you know....

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Salvation is not forced upon a person once they made a one time decision to accept Christ or to temporarily live in Him and His good ways. Ezekiel 18 says if you do evil, all the righteousness you did before will not be remembered. In other words, it will be as if God never knew the person you are in doing good if you draw back and do wrong again (like the old man).

What does Christ's death upon the cross accomplish? Well, it is both His death, burial, and resurrection that provides the free gift of eternal life. Christ's death accomplished many things. One major thing it accomplished is that His blood is able to wash away past sin for anyone who would receive His free gift by admitting that they sinned before God (with the hope that they do not want to do it again) and calling upon Jesus to save them. But if one sins again, they need to go back to Christ who is their advocate (1 John 2:1). For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


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AndOne said:

I'm sorry but in quoting Romans 8 you conveniently left out verses 2-4. Go back and read it again and quote it in its entirety please. Also a good look at verses 10-11 will show that your argument is not biblical.

Indeed we are to walk in the Spirit - but I see nowhere in the text where it says that this means we will become sinless. It just isn't there.

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And you need to read verse 6. It says,

"For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Romans 8:6).

To be carnally minded is death. This is spiritual death seeing that all people are going to physically die.

And the context for verses 10-11 is verses 12-13.

"Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do put to death the deeds of the body, you shall live." (Romans 8:12-13).

For if you live after the flesh, you will die.


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