OBAMA’S REFUGEE POLICY: NO CHRISTIANS NEED APPLY

Sumwear

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What does it mean to be a Christian? Believing in God, believing in Jesus, the Resurrection, the Immaculate Conception? Do you also have to hold correct views on moral, ethical and political issues? Where does action fit in?

You are Catholic, correct? Does believing in Christ or God alone good enough? Because from I recall, the Church loathes such Christians who say they are but do something that is completely incompatible with the Church.

Yes, Christian they are, but that no longer says much.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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You are Catholic, correct? Does believing in Christ or God alone good enough? Because from I recall, the Church loathes such Christians who say they are but do something that is completely incompatible with the Church.

Yes, Christian they are, but that no longer says much.
I'm Catholic but also agnostic. I am active in my parish, support the Church, pray, study, and try to live my life in a good way. I'm even pro life. I just doubt the existence of God. That's why I find it funny that people who claim they do believe in God ( and Jesus and the Holy Spirit ) are often still labeled as not being Christian by others for reasons not related to spiritual belief.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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SolomonVII

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But it doesn't seem that is in fact true. Obama isn't as far as I know putting a religious test on immigration or accepting refugees.
Doing a bit more checking, I found this collection of information
http://www.factcheck.org/2015/11/facts-about-the-syrian-refugees/
I haven't argued the OP either way. Others has, so it is still disputed, though not my particular dispute.

I am more answering your more general question of what it would mean to be a Christian.
For members of churches that advocate racist policies like Aryans or Black Lib, for politicians who would turn their back on Christians and not even recognize the genocide against their brothers in Christ, pointing to the common faith has the same sound as a clanging bell. Paul had a few things to say against that too.
 
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One Voice Among Many1

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Mountain_Girl406

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I haven't argued the OP either way. Others has, so it is still disputed, though not my particular dispute.

I am more answering your more general question of what it would mean to be a Christian.
For members of churches that advocate racist policies like Aryans or Black Lib, for politicians who would turn their back on Christians and not even recognize the genocide against their brothers in Christ, pointing to the common faith has the same sound as a clanging bell. Paul had a few things to say against that too.
Then there's a lot of Christians that aren't true Christian, I guess. Those who owned slaves or permitted slavery to continue, those who sat on the sidelines during the Rwandan genocide, etc.
 
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SolomonVII

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Then there's a lot of Christians that aren't true Christian, I guess. Those who owned slaves or permitted slavery to continue, those who sat on the sidelines during the Rwandan genocide, etc.
I am not really expecting people to be angels, or better than their times in order to reach my standards of what a Christian should be.
Heck, I think I am already on record here as saying that faith the size of a mustard seed being comparable to someone who has lost all belief in God but still wants to believe, and carries on as if the belief was still there. Mother Teresa shows what can be accomplished with her own admission that that is really all she had in the end.

But there must come a point where it really ought to be noted that my own Christianity has nothing whatsoever in common with what some of the self-professed believe, and if that is what Christianity includes, then it would likely preferable not to even be a Christian.
 
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benedictaoo

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The only problem with your theory, Bene, is that God doesn't put conditions on his compassion. God loves unconditionally (unlike the hateful preachers and governors). President Obama's vision is closer to God's vision because, like God, he is not seeking to exclude people on the basis of religion. He is seeing people fleeing oppression, not "Christians" or "Muslims" fleeing oppression.

I quoted the President's exact words--unlike the sources you posted that were deliberately inflammatory and misleading.

I know it must upset you to realize that the President's position is closer to God's than the hate-mongering preachers. I guess they just don't understand much about who God is.
A. I don't post sources. B) comparing Bams to God?!! Look his compassion is fake. He kills babies in the womb. Don't talk to me about his compassion or any other liberals compassion when liberals support killing babies and selling their parts. If bamma thinks he can play the compassionate one with out God, good luck. His not God. Although too many thinks he is.
 
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LivingWordUnity

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You think Obama's lying when he says he's a Christian?
Jesus said that we shall know the tree by its fruit. Obama can't be against Christians and be one of us at the same time. And he has lied about other things such as his position on so-called "same-sex marriage" and the HHS mandate, siding against the religious freedom of Catholics and other Christians.

"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters." - Jesus (Matthew 12:30)
 
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benedictaoo

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Syrian Muslims showing up at the border with Mexico are being welcomed, but Chaldean Christians fleeing the horror and brutality of the Islamic State are being incarcerated in a federal detention center outside of San Diego, and Yazidis are not even on the administration’s radar.
but Obama's compassionate. He let's in Muslims and detainees Christians.
 
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benedictaoo

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Then there's a lot of Christians that aren't true Christian, I guess. Those who owned slaves or permitted slavery to continue, those who sat on the sidelines during the Rwandan genocide, etc.
Like those, especially those who support abortion and planned parenthood.
 
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benedictaoo

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I'm Catholic but also agnostic. I am active in my parish, support the Church, pray, study, and try to live my life in a good way. I'm even pro life. I just doubt the existence of God. That's why I find it funny that people who claim they do believe in God ( and Jesus and the Holy Spirit ) are often still labeled as not being Christian by others for reasons not related to spiritual belief.
Because they are hypocrites. You actually display obedience, a fruit of faith. You serve even if in doubt. That's actually strong faith.
 
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FlaviusAetius

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Then there's a lot of Christians that aren't true Christian, I guess. Those who owned slaves or permitted slavery to continue, those who sat on the sidelines during the Rwandan genocide, etc.

Doesn't Acts describe what moral obligations slave owners have to their slaves and that slaves should be obedient to their master as they would be to God?

Isn't that at the very least a toleration of slavery?
 
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dzheremi

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I have not seen any credible evidence that the Obama administration is favoring one religious group at the expense of another. After reading this thread, I still haven't.

As for President Obama's claim that we do not have a religious litmus test for refugees in this country, it is my understanding that the new reality (in which this is indeed the case) is the result of changes to the immigration system in the 1960s, and that before that time the religion of people coming into this country was at least taken into consideration with regard to their ability to adjust to a society made up primarily of Christians and Jews. Some would say that this would not be a bad thing to return to, and I would agree insofar as I think that pretending that religious difference doesn't matter just because we'd like it not to is a bit like people who claim not to see skin color or what have you. Okay, sure, you try to treat everyone equally, but usually the people you're trying to impress by saying that sort of thing are already well aware of their skin color and the impact it has on their daily lives as minorities in this country. So I can't help but say that it strikes me as at best disingenuous. I probably like President Obama more than most people on this board, but I must admit it does bother me that he (and with him, seemingly large numbers of secular society) seems to treat religion as an afterthought or non-issue when the people he's actually talking about don't. I remember some years ago when the author Salman Rushdie (who I would think knows a thing or two about the threat posed by Islamic extremism) was asked by Bill Moyers of PBS in the latter's "Faith and Reason" interview series whether or not he ever had trouble writing about religion or religious people, since Rushdie himself is an atheist. Rushdie's brilliantly simple reply was something like "Well, no, not really; it doesn't matter if I'm a believer, since all the people I'm writing about are."

It seems to me that large numbers of the current political elite and even ordinary citizenry cannot see the wisdom in this kind of approach, and in enforcing through various means their secularist worldview, are setting all of us up for great harm in the future via the inevitable clash between those who are really, really committed to extremist versions of their religions (Islam and others), and those who cannot even countenance that this could ever be the case because after all religion is a private matter, not relevant to public policy because we're not a theocracy, irrelevant and for old people anyway, or any of the other things I'm sure we've all regularly heard in several iterations for quite a long time now.

The propagation of this secularist worldview (even or perhaps especially by self-identified Christians like President Obama) means that we are in fact, as a society, thoroughly unequipped to deal with the reality of religion-based terrorism (and Islam-based terrorism in particular, given how we don't understand Islamic societies like we think we understand or at least can contain Christianity and Judaism, which historically as religions are far more amenable to life under governments that do not defer to their religious sensibilities than Islam has ever been; e.g., in the Coptic liturgy of St. Basil we have prayers for the ruler of the land, without specifying that they are to be Christian, since the liturgy was authored at a time when Christians were not governing any country). It is interesting, because for me as a member of a native Middle Eastern church, I interact regularly with people who have felt the sharp edge of Islam and Islamicization for 14 centuries and counting now, and if an ignorant Westerner who did not have such a background were to place their overall views on Islam and Muslims on a graph, they'd probably be seen as somewhere to the right of Cruz or even Trump. But the idea that this is not a matter of a (only US-relevant) left/right dichotomy is lost on people who cannot see things in religious terms, and instead place their political beliefs (in the absolute equality of all religions, societies, etc.) at the center of how they are going to deal with what are essentially religion-rooted problems (again, according to the people actually fighting and propagating this ideology; it's not as though they don't understand why they themselves are doing these things even as they're telling us and their own recruits that it is all about religious war between Muslims and non-Muslims...give terrorists a little more credit than that! They're dangerous, not stupid).
 
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Sumwear

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I'm Catholic but also agnostic. I am active in my parish, support the Church, pray, study, and try to live my life in a good way. I'm even pro life. I just doubt the existence of God. That's why I find it funny that people who claim they do believe in God ( and Jesus and the Holy Spirit ) are often still labeled as not being Christian by others for reasons not related to spiritual belief.

You divulged about yourself but you still missed my one question. Does faith alone pass the test? The answer is simple: no. The reason being we are not Protestants in that faith alone is all that is needed. Christians in practically name only [Living a life that is incompatible of said faith]. A faith of errors [Proclaiming to be a divine spirit, races are superior, inferior in God's eyes]. The Church can't stand these supposed Christians, correct?

Going back to these politicians, sorry if I don't buy into what they say. I'm not automatically saying they aren't, but I definitely am not saying their faith is genuine or even there to begin with.

Two politicians come to mind who had no issues using the faith, God card when trying to assume a political office, and also have had no issue of critiquing both once they left politics [Frank, Ventura]. I can at least respect the both of them for telling the truth. Question is how many other politicians flaunt a fake faith.
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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You divulged about yourself but you still missed my one question. Does faith alone pass the test? The answer is simple: no. The reason being we are not Protestants in that faith alone is all that is needed. Christians in practically name only [Living a life that is incompatible of said faith]. A faith of errors [Proclaiming to be a divine spirit, races are superior, inferior in God's eyes]. The Church can't stand these supposed Christians, correct?

Going back to these politicians, sorry if I don't buy into what they say. I'm not automatically saying they aren't, but I definitely am not saying their faith is genuine or even there to begin with.

Two politicians come to mind who had no issues using the faith, God card when trying to assume a political office, and also have had no issue of critiquing both once they left politics [Frank, Ventura]. I can at least respect the both of them for telling the truth. Question is how many other politicians flaunt a fake faith.
But it almost sounds like you are saying that Protestants aren't Christian. I think that the thing that makes one a Christian should be first and foremost faith. Then you have basic morality, which is usually shared by people of other faith, and those of no faith. But even within Christianity, there are disagreements, for instance some denominations see gay marriage as a sin, others celebrate it.
 
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Sumwear

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But it almost sounds like you are saying that Protestants aren't Christian. I think that the thing that makes one a Christian should be first and foremost faith. Then you have basic morality, which is usually shared by people of other faith, and those of no faith. But even within Christianity, there are disagreements, for instance some denominations see gay marriage as a sin, others celebrate it.

No, I'm just reiterating what the Church has said on the matter. You can very well say you are Christian beneath to core, but if your private life is the polar opposite of what Christ wants of yourself, then when do you begin to acknowledge the badge is coming off the seams? Not including the doctrinal or dogmatic disputes, how good is a Christian killer, rapist, pedophile, thief, assualter, xenophobe?

Furthermore, the Bible calls out so called people of faith. Only finding it suitable to show off their faith in public, but in their own privacy, God becomes a foreign concept. That's my feeling with certain Christians, spiritualusts, and even Jewis politicians. How much of it is pandering to the crowd?
 
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Mountain_Girl406

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No, I'm just reiterating what the Church has said on the matter. You can very well say you are Christian beneath to core, but if your private life is the polar opposite of what Christ wants of yourself, then when do you begin to acknowledge the badge is coming off the seams? Not including the doctrinal or dogmatic disputes, how good is a Christian killer, rapist, pedophile, thief, assualter, xenophobe?

Furthermore, the Bible calls out so called people of faith. Only finding it suitable to show off their faith in public, but in their own privacy, God becomes a foreign concept. That's my feeling with certain Christians, spiritualusts, and even Jewis politicians. How much of it is pandering to the crowd?
But where do you draw the line? Can you be gay and Christian, for instance? Is Bishop Robinson a Christian as an example?
 
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Sumwear

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But where do you draw the line? Can you be gay and Christian, for instance? Is Bishop Robinson a Christian as an example?

Christian. But what kind of Christians does the Church view such individuals? Also, do you suspect everyone who proclaims faith as not being deceiving?
 
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