Ask a Christian philosopher a question

anonymous person said:

The problem you have is that you think people are going to actually take you serious with your whole "Jesus never existed" position.

You failed miserably in our debate on this topic. You did not even deal with much of what I wrote.

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You didn't write all that much until the second and third rounds.

anonymous person said:

You need to change your views on this. If not you are not being intellectually honest.

Intellectually honest.......there it goes again....

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Do you want to recommence our discussion on intellectual honesty?

bhsmte said:

I don't see how this would allow one to discern patterns are reliable and align with the truth, in any objective way.

But hey, whatever works for you.

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It took time for me to see truth in HitchSlap's statement earlier. It took over a week. I think you should not write off the possibility.

bhsmte said:

You would have to show, that those who don't believe in a God, live sinful lives and have lives where they are stricken with guilt in their conscience.

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Who must I show this to?

oi_antz said:

Who must I show this to?

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Anyone you desire to demonstrate your claims are credible and supported with something other than just your opinion.

Ana the Ist said:

For some reason, I thought we were speaking about recognizing a "pattern' of truth that allows us to draw correct conclusions. You were actually discussing emotions?

I happen to see 'guilt" and "shame" as closely related...any very different from how you see them.

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Please explain more, as I do not have enough information from this to identify possible cause of our disagreement. Yes emotions, true. This does not yet appear to negate that the pattern is reliable.

oi_antz said:

It took time for me to see truth in HitchSlap's statement earlier. It took over a week. I think you should not write off the possibility.

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We all observe and absorb information at our own rate.

bhsmte said:

Anyone you desire to demonstrate your claims are credible and supported with something other than just your opinion.

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What if such a person prefers to not accept it? Do you think that it is always possible in such case for objective truth to be found agreeable?

oi_antz said:

What if such a person prefers to not accept it? Do you think that it is always possible in such case for objective truth to be found agreeable?

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The point here, is for the person making the claim, to demonstrate their claim is something other than just their opinion and based on something that has some means of objective evidence that can be verified. It is not difficult to discern, when one makes a claim based on personal opinion, vs making a claim and sourcing objective and external sources that support their claim.

You make a lot of claims based on your personal opinion and or beliefs and do not support the same with anything that is outside of your simple opinion, that supports what you claim.

And hey, there is nothing wrong with you believing what you do and making claims based on your personal opinion, but I wouldn't be shocked, if others call it for what it is; your opinion.

oi_antz said:

Please explain more, as I do not have enough information from this to identify possible cause of our disagreement. Yes emotions, true. This does not yet appear to negate that the pattern is reliable.

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Perhaps you should just tell me what the pattern is before we continue this any further. It seems that is the point I am mistaken about.

bhsmte said:

The point here, is for the person making the claim, to demonstrate their claim is something other than just their opinion and based on something that has some means of objective evidence that can be verified.

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That's the point you want to make. You are avoiding giving me the ability to make my point, which sort of counts toward the point I am making too.

bhsmte said:

And hey, there is nothing wrong with you believing what you do and making claims based on your personal opinion, but I wouldn't be shocked, if others call it for what it is; your opinion.

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It doesn't shock me. I expect it from that sort of person.

Ana the Ist said:

Perhaps you should just tell me what the pattern is before we continue this any further. It seems that is the point I am mistaken about.

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Good call. I suppose a most general way to say it might be those who have truly resolved to live obediently to Him, feel comfort with when they come to face Him, that He will accept them. They base this on the forgiveness they know, that He has already accepted them. That is a reliable pattern of subjective interpretations.

oi_antz said:

That's the point you want to make. You are avoiding giving me the ability to make my point, which sort of counts toward the point I am making too.

It doesn't shock me. I expect it from that sort of person.

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No on is stopping you from making your point. It is just obvious, the point you are making is your personal opinion.

bhsmte said:

No on is stopping you from making your point. It is just obvious, the point you are making is your personal opinion.

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What is the reason you would rather me to believe, that you did not answer my question from #1327:

Do you think that it is always possible in such case for objective truth to be found agreeable?

oi_antz said:

What is the reason you would rather me to believe, that you did not answer my question from #1327:

Do you think that it is always possible in such case for objective truth to be found agreeable?

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You can personally believe for whatever reason you like. Of course, if you are making an attempt to get others to understand that your belief is correct, something based on personal opinion only and void of any objective verification, may not get the job done.

Whether the likely hood of something being true or not is "agreeable", to more than on party depends on certain variables. One of them would be, the method each person utilizes, to determine if something is likely true. The simple psychological need to believe something can play a role and or, the need to rely on external objective evidence which is verifiable, may be important to others.

bhsmte said:

You can personally believe for whatever reason you like. Of course, if you are making an attempt to get others to understand that your belief is correct, something based on personal opinion only and void of any objective verification, may not get the job done.

Whether the likely hood of something being true or not is "agreeable", to more than on party depends on certain variables. One of them would be, the method each person utilizes, to determine if something is likely true. The simple psychological need to believe something can play a role and or, the need to rely on external objective evidence which is verifiable, may be important to others.

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I am pretty sure that means "no", please confirm otherwise correct me if that is wrong.

oi_antz said:

Good call. I suppose a most general way to say it might be those who have truly resolved to live obediently to Him, feel comfort with when they come to face Him, that He will accept them. They base this on the forgiveness they know, that He has already accepted them. That is a reliable pattern of subjective interpretations.

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Really? You don't see how confirmation bias could be the sole reason for interpreting your feelings the way you do?

Ok...here's a helpful thought exercise then...

You're saying that under certain circumstances a believer feels comfort...and it's due to god for some reason. Is there ever going to be a way to show that these feelings of comfort aren't from another source than god? Conversely, is there any way to show that they are from god to begin with?

Is it possible to be wrong about the "cause" of your feelings?

I would guess your answers to these questions are "no, no, and yes" respectively. If that's so...I'm curious how you rule out confirmation bias.

Ana the Ist said:

Really? You don't see how confirmation bias could be the sole reason for interpreting your feelings the way you do?

Ok...here's a helpful thought exercise then...

You're saying that under certain circumstances a believer feels comfort...and it's due to god for some reason. Is there ever going to be a way to show that these feelings of comfort aren't from another source than god? Conversely, is there any way to show that they are from god to begin with?

Is it possible to be wrong about the "cause" of your feelings?

I would guess your answers to these questions are "no, no, and yes" respectively. If that's so...I'm curious how you rule out confirmation bias.

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I made bold the word "show" in your questions above - can you please describe what you mean when you use this word there?

oi_antz said:

I made bold the word "show" in your questions above - can you please describe what you mean when you use this word there?

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I will give my two cents without speaking for Ana.

Did you ever take a math test in school in which you had to "show" your work, in regards to how you got the answer?

Show us, and or demonstrate to us, how you didn't allow confirmation bias to influence your conclusions.

bhsmte said:

I will give my two cents without speaking for Ana.

Did you ever take a math test in school in which you had to "show" your work, in regards to how you got the answer?

Show us, and or demonstrate to us, how you didn't allow confirmation bias to influence your conclusions.

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This...but really, I'll accept any claim that you believe can demonstrate the "source" of your emotions.

bhsmte said:

I will give my two cents without speaking for Ana.

Did you ever take a math test in school in which you had to "show" your work, in regards to how you got the answer?

Show us, and or demonstrate to us, how you didn't allow confirmation bias to influence your conclusions.

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Ana the Ist said:

This...but really, I'll accept any claim that you believe can demonstrate the "source" of your emotions.

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I am showing you.