The Firmament Is Real

SnowyMacie · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
1. Go get your own plane and fly over Antarctica...oh wait you can't its blocked by the military. So you'll never know.
There is no such thing as the south pole, it doesn't exist, you're still stuck on the Globe earth, engraved in your mind.

2. Solar eclipses happen when the 2 paths of the Moon and Sun intersect with each other.

1) People fly over Antarctica ever day, cruise to it, etc. If the poles don't exist, how do compases work?
2) I didn't ask that, I asked how lunar eclipses don't happen every night if the Earth is directly between the Sun and Moon.
3) You've still yet to explain how one can continously travel East or West.
4) You also still haven't explained equinoxes and solstices.

mnorian · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
Oh you must mean except for these right ?

You "Christians" sure don't know the Bible very well...

"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." - Psalms 104:5

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." - Matthew 4:8

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree." - Revelation 7:1

"Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?" - Job 37:18

"Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." - Job 37:3

"He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." -
Isaiah 11:12

"For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens." - Job 28:24

"When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah" - Psalms 75:3

"Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." - 1 Chronicles 16:30

"Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:" - Isaiah 42:5

"The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises." - Ecclesiastes 1:5

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." - Genesis 1:6

Nothing here proves flat earth.

mnorian · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
I actually made a model of this a 3d simulation program called Cinema 4d, and entered all of the distances, I even tried making the camera 350 miles, rather than 70 ( tested out both ), and you still couldn't see the moon, not even close, completely blocked by the earth. I tested it out all myself. You are 100% incorrect. Thats the only argument people use against this video. The "perspective". I entered it in all myself.

Your calculations are wrong. Are you a scientist? You should leave esoteric things to those that have had the training and years of study; but I see by your profile your only 18; there is hope for you; you could grow out of this delusion; God willing.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

TX_Matt said:
1) People fly over Antarctica ever day, cruise to it, etc. If the poles don't exist, how do compases work?
2) I didn't ask that, I asked how lunar eclipses don't happen every night if the Earth is directly between the Sun and Moon.
3) You've still yet to explain how one can continously travel East or West.
4) You also still haven't explained equinoxes and solstices.

1. No they don't. They flight routes are lying.
2. The Earth is not between, The sun and moon are INSIDE the firmament, and both follow separate paths
3. That has to do the compass. A compass points how close or far you are from the North Star. North Pole is north, Antarctic region is south, going either clockwise or counterclockwise determines east or west. So you if you keep going clockwise or counterclockwise in one direction, your compass will continually read East or West.
4. Equinoxes don't disprove a flat earth.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

mnorian said:
Your calculations are wrong. Are you a scientist? You should leave esoteric things to those that have had the training and years of study; but I see by your profile your only 18; there is hope for you; you could grow out of this delusion; God willing.

There are only so many numbers to enter. Size of the Earth, Size of the moon, Distance between the earth and moon, position of the moon relative to the earth, distance from the rocket to the earth, position of rocket relative to the earth.

Those are 6 numbers to type in. I checked all of them multiple times. Why do I need to be a scientist to enter in values in 3d program that I have used for over 4 years?

I hope one day you can emotionally, mentally, and spiritually handle that NASA and Government has been lying to the public for over 50 years and an 18 year old saw through the lie sooner than you did, but seeing as you have been spoon fed this lie for longer than I have it is unlikely.

You could come to truth; God willing.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

mnorian said:
Nothing here proves flat earth.

"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." - Psalms 104:5

How can a sphere be set on foundations, God said the Earth isn't moving, so it is not orbiting the sun

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." - Matthew 4:8

You can't see all the kingdoms of the world from a mountain unless its flat

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree." - Revelation 7:1

There cannot be four corners of a sphere

"Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?" - Job 37:18

You can't spread out the skies over a sphere, but you can over a plane or disc

"Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." - Job 37:3

A sphere doesn't have corners

"He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." -
Isaiah 11:12

"For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens." - Job 28:24

A sphere does not have ends

"When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah" - Psalms 75:3

A sphere cannot be on pillars, and it cannot be steady if it is "orbiting"

"Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." - 1 Chronicles 16:30

The earth is not moving. Thus it is not a globe orbiting around the sun.

"Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:" - Isaiah 42:5

You cannot stretch out heavens over a globe, only a flat surface

"The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises." - Ecclesiastes 1:5

The sun moves back to where it rose, we do not orbit around the sun

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." - Genesis 1:6

A Globe cannot be surrounded by a firmament

mnorian · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
Those are 6 numbers to type in. I checked all of them multiple times. Why do I need to be a scientist to enter in values in 3d program that I have used for over 4 years?

Maybe it's lying to you.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

mnorian said:
Maybe it's lying to you.

Thats the best response you can come up with ?

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

Here is what I am taking about. The red dot represents the rocket over Nevada, and the green box, is the point of view from the rocket

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

In the background there SHOULD be another Red dot, which represents the moon, but it can be seen because the Earth is blocking it, and it has behind Australia. It is only possible to see the moon from Nevada when its over Australia on a FLAT earth. This is the point of view from the Rocket and as you can see the red dot representing the moon is not visible:

mnorian · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
It is very hard for people to emotional understand that the world government, NASA, and education system is lying to us.

MaxR1996 said:
No they don't. They flight routes are lying.

If you think that all these are in a conspiracy to lie to the public (as if the government could keep something secret for so long) how do you know the computer program that runs your 3D program; isn't maybe, a reverse conspiracy to confuse gullible people into arguing about things that were taken for fact by the church 500 years ago. Could be the enemy of your soul so you don't concentrate on the important things in God's word; like saving lost sinners.

MaxR1996 said:
It is only possible to see the moon from Nevada when its over Australia on a FLAT earth

Then why DON'T you see the moon when it is over Australia in the USA?

MaxR1996 said:
Thats the best response you can come up with ?

See above: yup.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

mnorian said:
If you think that all these are in a conspiracy to lie to the public (as if the government could keep something secret for so long) how do you know the computer program that runs your 3D program; isn't maybe, a reverse conspiracy to confuse gullible people into arguing about things that were taken for fact by the church 500 years ago. Could be the enemy of your soul so you don't concentrate on the important things in God's word; like saving lost sinners.

Then why DON'T you see the moon when it is over Australia in the USA?

See above: yup.

Because once you go 70 miles above, you see the most of the flat earth. On a globe earth 70 miles wouldn't be enough to see the other side of the globe, on a flat earth, once you go high enough you can see both the Sun and Moon.

Swan7 · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
Oh you must mean except for these right ?

You "Christians" sure don't know the Bible very well...

"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." - Psalms 104:5

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." - Matthew 4:8

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree." - Revelation 7:1

"Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?" - Job 37:18

"Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." - Job 37:3

"He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." - Isaiah 11:12

"For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens." - Job 28:24

"When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah" - Psalms 75:3

"Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." - 1 Chronicles 16:30

"Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:" - Isaiah 42:5

"The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises." - Ecclesiastes 1:5

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." - Genesis 1:6

That's a very bold statement to be passing around. Don't condemn others of their salvation, for you only condemn yourself. Matthew 7:1-2

Those verses talk about various things, and Revelation is very symbolic. It really sounds like to me you're not a scientist and the "proof" you are giving isn't even correct as others have pointed out. Those pictures even look like a sphere! It's not flat. Why would God be limited to His creation? Clearly, man has pointed out the sheer brilliance of God's Design, intended or not.

But I digress, believe what you clearly so want to believe and twist scripture to that belief and miss out on the much bigger picture of sowing seeds for the lost, that they might be saved.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

Swan7 said:
That's a very bold statement to be passing around. Don't condemn others of their salvation, for you only condemn yourself. Matthew 7:1-2

Those verses talk about various things, and Revelation is very symbolic. It really sounds like to me you're not a scientist and the "proof" you are giving isn't even correct as others have pointed out. Those pictures even look like a sphere! It's not flat. Why would God be limited to His creation? Clearly, man has pointed out the sheer brilliance of God's Design, intended or not.

But I digress, believe what you clearly so want to believe and twist scripture to that belief and miss out on the much bigger picture of sowing seeds for the lost, that they might be saved.

Do you mean the picture I posted?

Those were SUPPOSED to be a sphere, in order to prove that it is impossible to see the moon on the Globe earth, even if the perspective is 70 miles up.

lilmatchgirl · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
"He set the earth on its foundations, so that it should never be moved." - Psalms 104:5

How can a sphere be set on foundations, God said the Earth isn't moving, so it is not orbiting the sun

"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory." - Matthew 4:8

You can't see all the kingdoms of the world from a mountain unless its flat

"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree." - Revelation 7:1

There cannot be four corners of a sphere

"Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a cast metal mirror?" - Job 37:18

You can't spread out the skies over a sphere, but you can over a plane or disc

"Under the whole heaven he lets it go, and his lightning to the corners of the earth." - Job 37:3

A sphere doesn't have corners

"He will raise a signal for the nations and will assemble the banished of Israel, and gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." -
Isaiah 11:12

"For he looks to the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens." - Job 28:24

A sphere does not have ends

"When the earth totters, and all its inhabitants, it is I who keep steady its pillars. Selah" - Psalms 75:3

A sphere cannot be on pillars, and it cannot be steady if it is "orbiting"

"Tremble before him, all the earth; yes, the world is established; it shall never be moved." - 1 Chronicles 16:30

The earth is not moving. Thus it is not a globe orbiting around the sun.

"Thus says God, the Lord, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:" - Isaiah 42:5

You cannot stretch out heavens over a globe, only a flat surface

"The sun rises, and the sun goes down, and hastens to the place where it rises." - Ecclesiastes 1:5

The sun moves back to where it rose, we do not orbit around the sun

"And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters." - Genesis 1:6

A Globe cannot be surrounded by a firmament

So I asked my dad (he's a pastor) about this and he said that you're going to have problems if you use poetry and apocalyptc stuff for your basis. Stuff like the "four corners of the earth" is just hebrew idiom for the whole earth. and if you're going that way the verse from 1 Chronicles contradicts Psalms 75:3. My dad also said Isaiah 24:19 and 20 contradict it if you're taking hebrew imagery literally.

PS: He pastors a conservative Baptist church so don't get any ideas about accusing me of being some liberal or something, lol.

Wgw said:
I like your kitteh.

Thanks!! Her name is Spot. ♥

Wgw · Nov 28, 2015

lilmatchgirl said:
So I asked my dad (he's a pastor) about this and he said that you're going to have problems if you use poetry and apocalyptc stuff for your basis. Stuff like the "four corners of the earth" is just hebrew idiom for the whole earth. and if you're going that way the verse from 1 Chronicles contradicts Psalms 75:3. My dad also said Isaiah 24:19 and 20 contradict it if you're taking hebrew imagery literally.

PS: He pastors a conservative Baptist church so don't get any ideas about accusing me of being some liberal or something, lol.

Thanks!! Her name is Spot. ♥

I used to have a very large Siamese cat. He weighed 22 lbs and had a 15" tail. He died over ten years ago, but he was a superb friend growing up.

Your father is quite right by the way. Interestingly the idea that the world is round was known in the ancient world, most likely by a number of early Christians. With some digging I could probably make a case against this argument based on Patristics.

Gnarwhal · Nov 28, 2015

MaxR1996 said:
You "Christians" sure don't know the Bible very well...

Oooh bad move chief, sorry. Maybe re-read the rules:

Listed under flaming/goading:
"●Stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian is not allowed."

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 28, 2015

Wgw said:
Interestingly the idea that the world is round was known in the ancient world, most likely by a number of early Christians. With some digging I could probably make a case against this argument based on Patristics.

Medieval Christians, with small exceptions, did not believe in a flat earth; like Aristotle, they by and large believed in a spherical earth. The myth that medieval Christians believed in a flat earth was developed by the dubious historiography of people like John William Draper.

MaxR1996 · Nov 28, 2015

I apologize. At the end of the day its about our salvation in Jesus Christ.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 28, 2015

I don't really feel the sensation of embarrassment when someone asks me whether I am a Christian and I say yes. But this thread has certainly been eye opening in why it could be embarrassing...

The Firmament Is Real

Well-Known Member

Oldbie--Eternal Optimist

Oldbie--Eternal Optimist

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Oldbie--Eternal Optimist

Active Member

Active Member

Active Member

Oldbie--Eternal Optimist

Active Member

Made in the image of His Grace

Active Member

How He loves us! ♥♥

Pray For Brussels!

☩ Broman Catholic ☩

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads