It sure is easy to blame things on the devil

It becomes our fault when we choose to be ignorant, refuse to accept instruction, and continue in our rebellious ways. God has given us a choice, if we choose the latter-thats on us. And our condemnation is just...

I'm speaking from personal experience...

Abram's Awakening said:

It becomes our fault when we choose to be ignorant, refuse to accept instruction, and continue in our rebellious ways. God has given us a choice, if we choose the latter-thats on us. And our condemnation is just...

I'm speaking from personal experience...

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I agree.

But the devil does bear some responsibility. Even with our best efforts we still mess up. That's because we were all sons of the devil at some point and our human nature has been corrupted by his influence.

"You are of your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire." -- (Joh 8:44).

We have all been there.

Wgw said:

@Isaacsname

What you have not done thus far is express what it is you are actually trying to argue, at least not in a way I myself or several other members of considerable learning and erudition can decipher. If you might seek to express your view with grearer clarity, we might well make progress.

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From his last post He simply puts out what he claims is cultural event in ancient history and only links the region he claims they are from, instead of any direct evidence that they ever did this. I guess the idea is to make it sound like the Israelite's stole the practice from some earlier civilization instead of having it come down from god.

I'm basically tired of treating with the guy, that's why I'm responding to everyone else. If the guy would come clean it would be better, but having been sneered at so many times I hold little hope for. that.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

From his last post He simply puts out what he claims is cultural event in ancient history and only links the region he claims they are from, instead of any direct evidence that they ever did this. I guess the idea is to make it sound like the Israelite's stole the practice from some earlier civilization instead of having it come down from god.

I'm basically tired of treating with the guy, that's why I'm responding to everyone else. If the guy would come clean it would be better, but having been sneered at so many times I hold little hope for. that.

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Alas his erroneous argument is not even compelling. Compare and contrast with the interesting, if wrong from a Christian, NT-informed perspective, as well as a Rabinnical Talmudic perspective, view of the Karaites, that the idea of the devil is alien to authentic Judaism and stems from Zoroastrian influence.

Doveaman said:

Well he did lead us into this mess.
I guess the idea is that we wouldn't be making such bad decisions if the devil didn't deceive us in the first place, right?

It's all his fault that we are making such bad decisions. Or so it seems.

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I don't believe that we are using the Devil for a scapegoat, since that practice died off a long time ago. Satan most asuridly started the world off when he actively worked to bring sin into the hearts of Adam and Eve, but I hardly think we could blame him for succumbing to the temptations that we have.

I mean the last time I heard of him tempting anyone directly, face to face was during the 40 days of fasting that Christ went through.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

I don't believe that we are using the Devil for a scapegoat, since that practice died off a long time ago. Satan most asuridly started the world off when he actively worked to bring sin into the hearts of Adam and Eve, but I hardly think we could blame him for succumbing to the temptations that we have.

I mean the last time I heard of him tempting anyone directly, face to face was during the 40 days of fasting that Christ went through.

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There are Patrisric and monastic accounts of such encounters. For example, the Life of St. Anthony, by St. Athanasius.

From my own experiences, pilgrims behave strangely at monasteries. People sometimes freak out. The night watchman monk at an Orthodox monastery in Arizona explained it rather simply "the devil does not want people to be here."

Wgw said:

Alas his erroneous argument is not even compelling. Compare and contrast with the interesting, if wrong from a Christian, NT-informed perspective, as well as a Rabinnical Talmudic perspective, view of the Karaites, that the idea of the devil is alien to authentic Judaism and stems from Zoroastrian influence.

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Well, you definitely are far more educated on this stuff than I, which is why I like coming here. You sir have my envy.

I have googled the Karaites and am reading up on them. As for this persons argument, I don't actually think we can call it that. I don't think he can either, since he hasn't brought one foreword.

Abram's Awakening said:

It becomes our fault when we choose to be ignorant, refuse to accept instruction, and continue in our rebellious ways. God has given us a choice, if we choose the latter-thats on us. And our condemnation is just...

I'm speaking from personal experience...

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i would agree, but with exception of the ignorant part. I think we reject what we find more iritating than devine when we allow ourselves to sin. It's rebelian and sometimes I think that some people think they can walk a fine line and get what they want now and just make up for it in the future. I don't think it works that way, but I'm me and this is how I think. What do you think?

Wgw said:

There are Patrisric and monastic accounts of such encounters. For example, the Life of St. Anthony, by St. Athanasius.

From my own experiences, pilgrims behave strangely at monasteries. People sometimes freak out. The night watchman monk at an Orthodox monastery in Arizona explained it rather simply "the devil does not want people to be here."

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Now that's interesting. Have you ever seen the Movie, "In the name of The Rose"? It looks like a very decent period piece about an investigation of murder at an abby. I don't agree with parts of it, but I can indefinably see what you have stated happening there.

I would agree that The Devil could effect areas he dislikes, but I would make the suggestion that maybe at one point he was allowed entry into that be some sacrilegious act. I mean, I would think that such a place would be blessed before and after it was built and that that blessing would create a barrior against evil.

In the Movie I spoke of there were Heretics hiding in with the regular monks and that might have created a crack in the Abbys spiritual armor and allowed Satan in.

This I've thought up, because of the fact that satan had to ask Gods permission to effect Job. If it were that way for a ritious man, then I supposed it would be for an abby.

This is all fanciful imagination, so if I've erred, please correct me on this.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

Now that's interesting. Have you ever seen the Movie, "In the name of The Rose"? It looks like a very decent period piece about an investigation of murder at an abby. I don't agree with parts of it, but I can indefinably see what you have stated happening there.

I would agree that The Devil could effect areas he dislikes, but I would make the suggestion that maybe at one point he was allowed entry into that be some sacrilegious act. I mean, I would think that such a place would be blessed before and after it was built and that that blessing would create a barrior against evil.

In the Movie I spoke of there were Heretics hiding in with the regular monks and that might have created a crack in the Abbys spiritual armor and allowed Satan in.

This I've thought up, because of the fact that satan had to ask Gods permission to effect Job. If it were that way for a ritious man, then I supposed it would be for an abby.

This is all fanciful imagination, so if I've erred, please correct me on this.

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I have indeed viewed that film. Its not so much that the abbey is a locality offensive to the devil, but rather that the devil is opposed to what monasticism entails. I have known several Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant clergymen who have mentioned to me demonic attacks that they seem to experience ex officio.

Wgw said:

I have indeed viewed that film. Its not so much that the abbey is a locality offensive to the devil, but rather that the devil is opposed to what monasticism entails. I have known several Orthodox, Catholic and Protestant clergymen who have mentioned to me demonic attacks that they seem to experience ex officio.

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I can see that. I would think that what happens inside an abby would be the target. Any way Satan could interupt that would be a plus for him.

It also leaves chills running down my spine.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

I can see that. I would think that what happens inside an abby would be the target. Any way Satan could interupt that would be a plus for him.

It also leaves chills running down my spine.

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It is in the grand scheme of things unsettling. You might enjoy the interviews with Fr. Lazarus el Antony, an Austrlain convert to Coptic Orthodoxy who is a hermit at St. Anthony's in upper Egypt. For that matter, if this sort of thing seems appealing, you might very well enjoy the Sayings of the Desert Fathers, the Philokalia, the Arena of St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, the Little Russian Philokalia, and the works of Fr. Seraphim Rose, particularly Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.

The blogs Mystagogy and Daimonologia might also be particularly interesting.

Wgw said:

It is in the grand scheme of things unsettling. You might enjoy the interviews with Fr. Lazarus el Antony, an Austrlain convert to Coptic Orthodoxy who is a hermit at St. Anthony's in upper Egypt. For that matter, if this sort of thing seems appealing, you might very well enjoy the Sayings of the Desert Fathers, the Philokalia, the Arena of St. Ignatius Brianchaninov, the Little Russian Philokalia, and the works of Fr. Seraphim Rose, particularly Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future.

The blogs Mystagogy and Daimonologia might also be particularly interesting.

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I will look at them, thank you, but what gives me the most chills is the idea that so many young people romanticize this sort of thing, like if It's a game. Satan, to them is a character in a book They have no idea what they are playing with.

AHH who-stole-my-name said:

I will look at them, thank you, but what gives me the most chills is the idea that so many young people romanticize this sort of thing, like if It's a game. Satan, to them is a character in a book They have no idea what they are playing with.

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Note that I did not reccommend this material in the vein of horror films for purposes of chilling you, but rather because this material essentially addresses what you discuss.

The Orthodox Church advises against dabbling in the occult emphatically: there are many Orthodox clergy who reccommend against ouija boards, eastern meditation, and various other potential hazards.

The Russians actually have a useful word to discuss this sort of spiritual delusion, "prelest," which is a major theme in the aforementioned works. Essentially the model is that the devil plays upon human weaknesses, inflames the passions and leads us into a confused state of self-deception.

I know exactly who I am dealing with... Tell me-though you know nothing about me, where I come from-nor how I got here- should I be worried?

Wgw said:

Note that I did not reccommend this material in the vein of horror films for purposes of chilling you, but rather because this material essentially addresses what you discuss.

The Orthodox Church advises against dabbling in the occult emphatically: there are many Orthodox clergy who reccommend against ouija boards, eastern meditation, and various other potential hazards.

The Russians actually have a useful word to discuss this sort of spiritual delusion, "prelest," which is a major theme in the aforementioned works. Essentially the model is that the devil plays upon human weaknesses, inflames the passions and leads us into a confused state of self-deception.

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And I appreciate that. and every other thing you do to enlighten me on things I know very little about.

I am not a fan of horror flicks. I don't see any thrill in scaring myself. My paycheck does that well enough. lol.

The reason I brought up dabbling in that stuff is because they don't have enough respect for that which is beyond our world. I say respect, not that anyone other than God, Jesus and the angels deserve respect but the same type of respect that you would give a ragging tiger, as in keeping one's distance. Young people have enough on their plate, these days to bring themselves in jepardy of being influenced by demonic forces.

brinny said: ↑
Is your post in response to post #18?

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Isaacsname said:

if that was your post, than yes, yes it was

the post asked who I would rather blame, and my response is that instead of following a Levite practice of blaming a goat { I don't even have a goat } , I'd rather just take responsibility for my own actions

Where is the incentive to changes one's actions when they can just blame the sins on a goat ?

lol

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i believe you are the one who brought up "devil", did you not?

(see the title of your thread -------> It sure is easy to blame things on the devil)