when sickness mimics demonic oppression

lutherangerman said:

The thing is, despite it being an illness I can easily imagine how good it must have felt for 1st century schizophrenics not to be scolded for the illness but to have a rabbi scold the spirit that is plaguing you. And then to be offered some wine and food like Jesus' followers probably did. Despite the fact that I have an illness it could easily feel good for me if someone were to scold the voices that I had been hearing sometimes, because they were no good voices and said blasphemies and such.

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You may probably have felt quite at home in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. The rise of urbanisation and the doubling of the population of Europe, greater health and an era of very ethereal and strange spirituality. You may have been understood to have been possessed by a benevolent spirit like Ida of Louvain.

lutherangerman said:

Hello,

I suffer from schizophrenia and there have been christians in my life who told me this would not be a sickness but would instead be demonic oppression. Many years I was not sure if they might be true. But whatever I did, I could not get the demon to leave me. So since some time I've been returning to considering my problems to be an illness and not something demonic.

The thing is, despite it being an illness I can easily imagine how good it must have felt for 1st century schizophrenics not to be scolded for the illness but to have a rabbi scold the spirit that is plaguing you. And then to be offered some wine and food like Jesus' followers probably did. Despite the fact that I have an illness it could easily feel good for me if someone were to scold the voices that I had been hearing sometimes, because they were no good voices and said blasphemies and such.

My first christian mentor insisted that it was demonic and that it must have been my fault somehow to get them. She gave me books from Derek Prince and told me that I had to live in a fundamentalistic way because a simple faith in Jesus would not be enough. I still suffer from the damage this lady had done to me. I had never dabbled in anything occult really, but I was never sure. I sometimes had played computer games with magic in them and wondered if that was the problem. It was not but again I was not sure. Derek Prince is an awful christian teacher, he is so dark and strict and dry. I can't feel anything from the Holy Ghost in his videos.

Where was Jesus' love? Where was His wisdom? Where was His mercy? All that this lady did for me resulted in fear in my life. I even began to become theophobic for a while, I could not think of God anymore without also being afraid of Him.

Now I am slowly coming back to my senses. Jesus is still my Savior, but I approach him differently now, as a friend, not as someone scary. His Father has also become my father and my God, but He is also more of a friend for me than a scary figure. I do not like christianity anymore when it is fundamentalistic. It only spreads fear and fear based religion is awful and anti-god and anti-human.

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On the subject of demonaic oppression, the Orthodox position is very clear, and we would not have labelled your illness demonaic. Indeed, your very presence on these forums refutes the idea that you could possibly be posessed. Interestingly, there are a fairly large number of Orthodox Christians in the mental health profession, including in countries like the US and Germany which are not traditionally Eastern or Oriental Orthodox, and I think mental health in general is the sort of thing Orthodox Christians like to take an interest in on the basis of compassion. It is certainly not an area where we would favour suggesting to someone that they were under some kind of demonaic influence, in that posession is not per se a mental health issue, and one can say that making such a suggestion to someone would not be beneficial to their pscyhological wellbeing.

In general, demonaic posession according to an Orthodox understanding does not normally occur to Christians, at least chrismated members of our church, except in cases where there is some involvement in the occult, i.e. ouija boards and that sort of disagreeable superstition, which no Christian ought to indulge in for reasons relating as much to personal dignity as anything else (for attending a seance, procuring a voudon fetish, et cetera, is really from a Christian perspective quite an undignified, if not to say, outright silly thing to do, setting aside the cruelty to animal issues surrounding voudon fetishes and praxis in general). Demonaic posession is characterized not just by unusual or disturbing behaviour, but by a specific aversion to Christian objects even when concealed from sensory perception, unusual strength and so on, and it is also the sort of thing that instantly responds to non-traumatic pastoral care (forget about the Wagnerian incident one sees in the Exorcist).

Whereas on the other hand, mental health issues are not uncommon, and respond to various modes of psychiatric treatment.

One interesting resource that may be of note is the book Orthodoxy and Pscyhotherapy, which I belive is available somewhere on the 'Net; it was authored by a Greek Orthodox psychiatrisr who if memory serves was also a clergyman.

At any rate, what you describe is the most extreme example of rubbish pastoral care I have heard of, which I think stresses the danger in certain fringe groups outside of the mainstream Orthodox/Protestant/Catholic/Assyrian continuum, and within that mainstream continuum, the need for continual improvements in clerical training particularly with regards to pastoral care in parishes, and for providing means of tracking incidents of ecclesiastical abuse. What you describe is simply malpractice.

lutherangerman said:

Hello,

I suffer from schizophrenia and there have been christians in my life who told me this would not be a sickness but would instead be demonic oppression. Many years I was not sure if they might be true. But whatever I did, I could not get the demon to leave me. So since some time I've been returning to considering my problems to be an illness and not something demonic.

The thing is, despite it being an illness I can easily imagine how good it must have felt for 1st century schizophrenics not to be scolded for the illness but to have a rabbi scold the spirit that is plaguing you. And then to be offered some wine and food like Jesus' followers probably did. Despite the fact that I have an illness it could easily feel good for me if someone were to scold the voices that I had been hearing sometimes, because they were no good voices and said blasphemies and such.

My first christian mentor insisted that it was demonic and that it must have been my fault somehow to get them. She gave me books from Derek Prince and told me that I had to live in a fundamentalistic way because a simple faith in Jesus would not be enough. I still suffer from the damage this lady had done to me. I had never dabbled in anything occult really, but I was never sure. I sometimes had played computer games with magic in them and wondered if that was the problem. It was not but again I was not sure. Derek Prince is an awful christian teacher, he is so dark and strict and dry. I can't feel anything from the Holy Ghost in his videos.

Where was Jesus' love? Where was His wisdom? Where was His mercy? All that this lady did for me resulted in fear in my life. I even began to become theophobic for a while, I could not think of God anymore without also being afraid of Him.

Now I am slowly coming back to my senses. Jesus is still my Savior, but I approach him differently now, as a friend, not as someone scary. His Father has also become my father and my God, but He is also more of a friend for me than a scary figure. I do not like christianity anymore when it is fundamentalistic. It only spreads fear and fear based religion is awful and anti-god and anti-human.

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I'm so sorry that you got caught up in that "demonic possession" thing. It is beyond wrong that people scolded you for having schizophrenia and tried to blame you for it. It has nothing to do with playing computer games. Schizophrenia is an illness. There are a multiplicity of studies out there that show the differences in the brain between people with and without schizophrenia. There is also a genetic link. The closer the blood relative is who has schizophrenia, the more likely you are to get it. I really hope that you get medical help with this condition, because I cannot even imagine how exhausting it would be to "go it alone" and try to cope.

lutherangerman --- I can understand very well where you are coming from. In her late teens our younger daughter suffered from severe clinical depression that sometimes manifested itself in terrifying psychotic episodes. In one, she attacked me with a knife and in another, a nearly successful suicide. An uneducated or deluded person could easily have suspected demonic possession. However, with medical and psychiatric care, she has recovered to the point where she is completely functional person with the help of very minimal medication. She has completed a good education, holds a good job with much responsibility, has married a fine young man and given us a wonderful grandson.

I recall that about ten years ago I read an interview with the RC priest who held the post of chief exorcist in the Vatican. He indicated that almost all his time is used in getting people in touch with medical and psychiatric care.

lutherangerman, I do hope that you are getting or will get such care and are able to recover from your disability to the same extent my daughter has. God go with you.

JackRT said:

lutherangerman --- I can understand very well where you are coming from. In her late teens our younger daughter suffered from severe clinical depression that sometimes manifested itself in terrifying psychotic episodes. In one, she attacked me with a knife and in another, a nearly successful suicide. An uneducated or deluded person could easily have suspected demonic possession. However, with medical and psychiatric care, she has recovered to the point where she is completely functional person with the help of very minimal medication. She has completed a good education, holds a good job with much responsibility, has married a fine young man and given us a wonderful grandson.

I recall that about ten years ago I read an interview with the RC priest who held the post of chief exorcist in the Vatican. He indicated that almost all his time is used in getting people in touch with medical and psychiatric care.

lutherangerman, I do hope that you are getting or will get such care and are able to recover from your disability to the same extent my daughter has. God go with you.

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What a great story of hope. The bolded is really, really good to read.

Indeed, the reality is that actual demonaic posession is so rare that the idea of it, the way people misapply it, can be harmful.