Fundies Say the Darnedest Things.

Butterfly99 said:

Fundie = fundamentalist? I've been trying to learn more about that means. Cause I thought I understood but then someone I thought was fundamentalist said she no she's an evangelical Christian which is what I thought we all are so I'm back to being confused, lol. I'll look at that site now & maybe it can help.

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I don't think that site will help much. All it will do is cause a flame war here.

You asked what exactly is meant by fundamentalist or fundamentalism.

I'll try to explain the history. First, how the term is used today is mostly in a derogatory manner. Anyone who sees the Holy Scriptures as the Holy Spirit breathed Word of God and uses such to test truth claims, is usually referred to as a Bible Christian, or Evangelical or yes a Fundamentalist.

As I said above many secularists and Christian traditions who do not point to the Bible as God's Word use the term fundamentalist as a label of shame or worse to imply such people are not intelligent or ignorant.

But the truth of the original term fundamentalist goes back to the early 20th century. Back them such a term was for some a badge of honor.

In the late 19th century Protestant Christians were at a divide. Several German theological seminaries and universities embraced liberal theological theories and from Germany such doctrines permeated most of Europe and in some cases the US. The reaction to this was fundamentalism. Big word but simple doctrinal stance. Here it goes:

THE FIVE BASIC DOCTRINES

1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Whos" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

That's it. Look how dangerous the above is...How controversial! /sarc

It's not...the above is the basic "blocking and tackling" of NT Christianity. It's so basic no Protestant confession could deny the basic tenants.

Since those early years of the 5 Fundamentals became the basis for many a church's statement of faith. Some choose to follow the fundamentals but some, like the liberal theologians of the 19th century, decided to add their own human traditions on top of the fundamentals.

So today secularists, the media and even other Christians use the label fundamentalists incorrectly as a derogatory term. They in some cases try to equate Muslims with the same term! Some do it purposely some just don't know the history of the 5 fundamentals.

The best way to discern IMO is to just look at the 5 fundamentals when someone labels one as such and use your judgment

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

You probably won't find a definition of "fundamentalist" on the website. The website is a collation of statements made by Christians who say funny things.

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I just posted the history of the term Fundamentalist. You might agree with 3-4 of 5 of the 5 Fundamentals.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

That may be the case but you must admit some of the quotes are very funny. I saw one quote which claimed that God had a penis a "majestic penis", fundamentalists really do say some pretty weird things...

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LOL go on Catholic Answers sometime and view some threads on what Lay Catholics argue are "venal" sins.

Good news is the staff of Catholic Answers delete the posts as fast as they can and post "these were obviously poorly catechized Catholics."

Mary7 said:

I read a few of them and then could not bear it. I do not know if I am an evangelical or a fundie.. I don't know which label applies but I take the Bible literally and also agree with the Nicene and Apostles Creeds. However, those quotes on that site seem to me to be the thinking (I run into this constantly) of those Christians who have mixed politics and patriotism with Christianity so much that the Christ part is no longer really visible and mostly the 'proud to be an American' shows up.
Keep in mind.. I have been republican all my life and loved John Wayne, apple pie and the flag, but I am seeing it has almost become it's own religion.

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Good observations. Evangelicals can be as much guilty of adding unproductive and distracting traditions as any other Christian denomination.

I posted up on this thread the history of the term fundamentalist.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

If you read Emilio Gentile, a political scientist/historian, you'd find that American patriotism really actually stems from a civic religion of Americanism. With it's own scripture (the bill of rights and constitution), it's own shrines, the Lincoln memorial, the White House, etc, it's own liturgies, presidential addresses, the "in God we trust" on the dollar bill is purely part and parcel of this phenomenon. Gentile would argue that none of this refers to overtly the Judeo-Christian God, but rather to the God of America what philosophers would term the God of therapeutic moral deism. This tradition is related to the Judeo-Christian deity yet only in that it is an offshoot of it.

I'm speaking as an observer of American culture rather than a participant. But I do like your point about how many of the contributors on FSDT are Stars-and-Stripes-ians.

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Interesting and I believe accurate. I can see the deism piece as well.

We can get a bit more conspiracy theory and mention how this fits Masonry.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

Your punctuation marks are on the wrong side... consistently...

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Obviously a Masonic punctuation conspiracy hatched by Steve Jobs who is really still alive living inside Lincoln's head on MT Rushmore

Kidding of course....or am ?I

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

Not that I have anything against atheism and I would actually consider myself a secularist but I don't think the website is atheistic, I think it's a bit of light hearted humour at fundamentalists.

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The site might not be atheistic but it's friends are atheist's; and we know what bad friends do: 1 Corinthians 15:33


Friends of FSTDT

• Information:
  • Bad Astronomy
  • Infidels.org
  • Rational Wiki
  • Religious Tolerance.org
  • Right Wing Watch
  • SkepDic
  • Skeptics Annotated Bible
  • Talk Origins
• Commentary:
  • Frequently Questioned Answers
  • Bay of Fundie
  • Friendly Atheist<----------------------------------------------------------------------<
  • Pharyngula
• Mocking:
  • The Brick Testament
  • Normal Bob Smith
  • The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

I agree with 1, 2 and I would say that every single Eucharist is the Parousia so 3 as well. 4 I wouldn't add the "alone" part, I think it's not necessary and 5 I don't believe.

The issue with that definition of fundamentalism is that it's not a history at all, fundamentalism is a particularly conservative and anti-modernist late-nineteenth and early twentieth century religious movement pertaining especially to the USA which today exists as part of the religious Right and the end times focused fringes.

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Anti modernist in what way? Traditional Marriage perhaps?

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

Truly deserving of a FSTDT quote!

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LOL. Just for the record that was a joke. So don't post that at you new favorite secularist socialist liberation theology site.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

Well, opposed to critical studies of the bible which were developing in Germany at the time and emerging biological sciences and virtually anything going on within universities in the humanities or the sciences...

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There was some of that even in Catholic universities.

The German liberal theologians were mostly refuted by early and later 20th century archeological digs. So they lost on the point of the Bible's historical accuracy. Sir William Ramsay put to rest most of their problems with NT historicity.

The evolution of the time was Darwinism. Ask a biologist today if Darwinism is actually a term used today in universities or is taught as such. You will get several answers and some tap dancing. So it was right for theology (not just fundamentalists) to challenge ideas. That's what theologians do. Unless someone believes origins is settled science and theology? Only God can answer that one.

On the prophetic theories? So what? All Christians of Creed believe in the physical return of Christ one day future. If not they are not "creedal."

What people think on how it is going to happen is not "dogma" not even for Evangelicals and Fundamentalists. If they are then they are in error based on Acts 1.

Plus I'll admit. I used to be on the other side of the Tiber. The CCC does not hold Catholics accountable for beliefs on origins, prophecy and a host of other theological issues. Yet Catholics are the first to speak poorly of those who are not Catholic but do express their thoughts and theories of such.

You may now remove an object from your eye.

Posting this flame bait is noted.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

Actually archaeology did refute the nineteenth century German liberals but not in the sense you think. Their history of Israel projects were far too faithful to the Deuteronomist than they should have been. The only place there is debate about the history of Israel today is whether or not David existed as a bandit king or whether he was entirely legendary (see Israel Finkelstein).

The problem with the evolutionary theories of the nineteenth century is that there wasn't a correct hereditary understanding which meant that the theories could lend themselves to quite egregious extremes such as Galtonian eugenics (or indeed Spencerian or even Maudsleyan). This has been rectified with the re-discovery of Mendel's genetics (who was a Catholic).

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What exactly am I thinking? I mentioned the NT and the work of Sir William Ramsay.

What has exactly been rectified with regards to evolution and its companion worldview of eugenics?

Such is still embraced by Western secularist humanists. The "spirit" of Sanger is still looming large and embraced in the West. The recent Planned parenthood videos testify to such.

Evolutionary theory has become a religion of its own, also with a political, social and economic movement.

I'm all for scientific advances, studies and observation. It's God's Creation after all and He created mankind with a brain between the ears. He meant for us to learn, observe and discover His Creation, which I believe glorifies Him.

We will all give an account one day. I seriously doubt we will be quizzed on our understanding of origins. Unless of course we deny God is the uncreated Creator. He told us He is so I believe Him.

Aelred of Rievaulx said:

This is just a bit of light-hearted humour. I'm just wondering how many people here have been quoted on FSTDT? And how many of you are proud of it?

I ask because I've been tempted at times to cut-n-paste some of the comments I've seen here.

This is the website here: http://www.fstdt.com/ please search for yourselves and paste the quote here for a laugh.

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There are at least three former CFers quoted over
there (Googling it brought up 124 results combined)
with whom I used to butt heads quite a bit. In fact, I
think that's how I first came across the FSTDT site,
when I realized they hadn't been posting here for
awhile and so I did a search for them. FSTDT
came up in the search.

I've probably said some of the darndest things
myself, back when I was more fundamentalistic in
my views (*shudders*). They’re more likely to
be found over in Yahoo Groups, though.





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