LDS LDS: Heavenly Mother, an Awkward Doctrine ???

fatboys · Nov 24, 2015

Hammster said:
I've not thrown mud. I've just asked for support for the view. It has not yet been given.

Figure of speech. I could have used silly putty as well

Hammster · Nov 24, 2015

fatboys said:
Figure of speech. I could have used silly putty as well

Doesn't change the fact that the view has not been supported with any substance.

Jane_Doe · Nov 25, 2015

Hammster said:
I am. But you keep leaving the discussion only to return as if you've given some.

If you're referring to me being on sometimes but not at others, yes I'll admit to that: my job does restrict my time on here...

Hammster · Nov 25, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
If you're referring to me being on sometimes but not at others, yes I'll admit to that: my job does restrict my time on here...

The time issue is understandable. But acting as if you have addressed the issue in full is not.

Jane_Doe · Nov 25, 2015

Hammster said:
The time issue is understandable. But acting as if you have addressed the issue in full is not.

I'm sorry if you feel that way. I feel like I've answered everything to the best of ability several times. Somethings (in the this case, most things) are just not known.

Hammster · Nov 25, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
I'm sorry if you feel that way. I feel like I've answered everything to the best of ability several times. Somethings (in the this case, most things) are just not known.

Nothing is known, if you are to look at what you've provided. It's been pure speculation. You cannot point to anything concrete to back up the existence of Heavenly Mother.

Jane_Doe · Nov 25, 2015

Hammster said:
Nothing is known, if you are to look at what you've provided. It's been pure speculation. You cannot point to anything concrete to back up the existence of Heavenly Mother.

I'm trying to identify your angle here. Possibilities:

1) You're trying to understand Mormon theology and thought from a Mormon's perspective. But your instance on not including personal communion with God would make that nearly impossible.
2) You're trying to understand Mormon theology and thought from a mainstream perspective, including sola scriptura. In that case, save yourself the time because Mormon theology is not sola scriptura.
3) You're trying to have me convince you of Mormon theology in this point. Well that's not my goal on this site, nor is it permitted on CF.
4) You're trying to convince me that my perspective is unfounded. Not going to happen.

Want to help me out here? (It'll be easier to respond to your questions if I know where you're wanting to go with this)

Hammster · Nov 25, 2015

None of that matters. Let's stick to the subject at hand. Please, if you will, respond to my previous post.

Jane_Doe · Nov 25, 2015

Hammster said:
None of that matters. Let's stick to the subject at hand. Please, if you will, respond to my previous post.

Your comment is too vague to answer without more information. I can be much more helpful going where you want to go if you told me where that is.

Hammster · Nov 26, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
Your comment is too vague to answer without more information. I can be much more helpful going where you want to go if you told me where that is.

Too vague? Okay. Let's start with this. What is the foundation for this belief? How do first learn about her?

Jane_Doe · Nov 26, 2015

Hammster said:
Too vague? Okay. Let's start with this. What is the foundation for this belief? How do first learn about her?

I have answered this multiple times already!

This limited knowledge we have is best summed up in-
(If you want an official church statement) https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng
(If you want a scholarly approach) The BYU essay "A Mother There"
(If you want to know more personally) Ask God in prayer.

The fact that you keep asking the same question over and over again, have it answered repeatedly, and yet still claim it's not answered makes me think that A) you're not listening to me, or B) you're really trying to ask something else. Either way I'm getting tired of repeating myself. (Sorry for the rant, but this is very time consuming).

Hammster · Nov 26, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
I have answered this multiple times already!

This limited knowledge we have is best summed up in-
(If you want an official church statement) https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng
(If you want a scholarly approach) The BYU essay "A Mother There"
(If you want to know more personally) Ask God in prayer.

The fact that you keep asking the same question over and over again, have it answered repeatedly, and yet still claim it's not answered makes me think that A) you're not listening to me, or B) you're really trying to ask something else. Either way I'm getting tired of repeating myself. (Sorry for the rant, but this is very time consuming).

I understand you are repeating yourself. But you aren't addressing the elephant in the room. So I'm doing this step by step.

Is it accurate to say that the basis for knowing about her is hearsay? If not, what would say is the basis?

Truthseeker1971 · Nov 26, 2015

drstevej said:
Eliza Snow composed the Hymn, "O, My Father" which seemingly opened a can of theological worms, in my opinion. Verses 3 & 4 set forth Eliza's reasoning (speculation?).

Verse 3

I had learned to call thee Father,
Thru thy Spirit from on high,
But, until the key of knowledge
Was restored, I knew not why.
In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.
Verse 4

When I leave this frail existence,
When I lay this mortal by,
Father, Mother, may I meet you
In your royal courts on high?
Then, at length, when I've completed
All you sent me forth to do,
With your mutual approbation
Let me come and dwell with you.

Heavenly Mother now is more than a wishful hymn for the LDS Church; She has become doctrine. This thread is to explore the LDS concept of Heavenly Mother especially the logical and doctrinal implications of the LDS concept of Heavenly Mother.

This notion raises many questions:

[1] Is this concept found in the Bible? Why is she omitted from the Great Commission Matt 18:19-20?
[2] Heavenly Father is deemed God by LDS, is Heavenly Mother deemed God also? And if not why not and if so is She to be worshiped?
[3] Are there Multiple Heavenly Mothers?
[4] Is Eliza Snow right in saying that both must approve those who come to live with them?
[5] Is this Restored Christianity?

Sometimes, I am told that she is sacred and talking about Her is not right. If that is the LDS view, why? Eliza Snow seems quite comfortable in doing so.

I am sure other questions will arise but for a start, I argue that the Notion of Heavenly Mom is a very awkward doctrine to try to fit into Christianity.

Actually though I will never defend the cult of the LDS there is support for a Heavenly Mother. NOT Mary. I am not Roman Catholic.

Wisdom in Proverbs is spoken in the feminine. Many attribute this to Jesus but that wouldn't work is Wisdom is spoken of as female. The word Wisdom itself is feminine in the Hebrew

Proverbs 1:20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

Proverbs 1:21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, [saying],

Ask yourself this too.....WHO is the woman in Revelation 12?

Many regard this to be Israel and that is true but only partially so. This was a great and awesome miracle in heaven. Jesus being born of His true mother in heaven (has anyone ever noticed in the bible how Jesus never called Mary His mother?) She was the mother of the flesh only. But Jesus is eternal.

Jesus is called the FIRSTBORN of all Creation (Created before the universe began).
Colossians 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The writers would never have used such a word without good reason.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it [is that] which shall be; and that which is done [is] that which shall be done: and [there is] no new [thing] under the sun.

NO NEW THING- including the idea of Father, Mother, Child. Why should Jesus be the only one in existence with no mother (in heaven- as I said Mary was the mother of His human existence only)

YES I know that the bible calls the Spirit 'he' but that is translator bias. Remember that the English bibles were first written in a patriarchal time when men would have laughed at the idea of a female in power.
The Aramiac in a few instances blatantly call the Spirit SHE

drstevej · Nov 26, 2015

^^^ Mormons do not equate Heavenly Mother and the Holy Spirit.

Mormons, do you see the woman of Revelation 12 as Heavenly Mother?

Jane_Doe · Nov 26, 2015

Hammster said:
I understand you are repeating yourself. But you aren't addressing the elephant in the room. So I'm doing this step by step.

Is it accurate to say that the basis for knowing about her is hearsay? If not, what would say is the basis?

*shrug*

I gave you official statements and their references. If after examining it, you decide that it's hearsay, that's your opinion and you have the right to it. I'm not going to tell you how to think.

In the meantime, I have my own thoughts on the matter.

Hammster · Nov 26, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
*shrug*

I gave you official statements and their references. If after examining it, you decide that it's hearsay, that's your opinion and you have the right to it. I'm not going to tell you how to think.

In the meantime, I have my own thoughts on the matter.

Okay, why don't you think it's hearsay?

Jane_Doe · Nov 26, 2015

Hammster said:
Okay, why don't you think it's hearsay?

My personal beliefs are also rooted in lots of scripture searching and deep prayer talking with God about things.

Hammster · Nov 26, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
My personal beliefs are also rooted in lots of scripture searching and deep prayer talking with God about things.

But we are talking about the genesis of the doctrine. How was it first introduced into Mormonism?

Jane_Doe · Nov 26, 2015

Hammster said:
But we are talking about the genesis of the doctrine. How was it first introduced into Mormonism?

I gave you references. If you're unwilling to read them, it's not my problem.

Hammster · Nov 26, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
I gave you references. If you're unwilling to read them, it's not my problem.

In your own words, how was it introduced? How do you understand it's beginning? I'm not interested in references to other articles. That doesn't make for a good discussion.

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