It sure is easy to blame things on the devil
- Thread starter Isaacsname
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Well....blaming a goat seems like a cop-out
I'd rather be an adult and take responsibility for my own actions
Truthfully though, what I am interested in is the origins of the practice
Is your post in response to post #18?
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if that was your post, than yes, yes it was
the post asked who I would rather blame, and my response is that instead of following a Levite practice of blaming a goat { I don't even have a goat } , I'd rather just take responsibility for my own actions
Where is the incentive to changes one's actions when they can just blame the sins on a goat ?
lol
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Wgw
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On this point, you do have a point, @Isaacsname , however, it is not well articulated. The Orthodox I think would say we have to take responsibility and accept divine grace proactively in our struggle against the Adversary, we cannot just say "the devil made me do it!"
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" well-articulated " depends on your educational level in the topics, which vary greatly among people. There is no way I could have worded anything so that nobody would complain
Let's try to move past all that, thanks
I'll go ask on a Jewish forum too, they would probably have some insight that Christians do not { in respect to the topics }
Let's try to move past all that, thanks
I'll go ask on a Jewish forum too, they would probably have some insight that Christians do not { in respect to the topics }
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
Leaving the insulting and irresponsibility nature of some people aside it seems the intention of the op was to somehow connect Satan to the imagery of Baphomet and then to the practice set down in Leviticus 16:10 of the Isrealites bringing forth a goat to symbolically place the sins of the nation upon that goat and then release it into the wild, thus releasing them from their sins.
My guess is he is somehow trying to make it sound as if the belief in the existence of Satan is to fabricate some diabolical imagery in wish we can blame for the sins that we have on our own slate.
I have no real idea where or when the imagery of a goat was attached to that of Satan. If any of our Pagan brothers can help out here, I would gratefully appropriate it.
I did google it and came up with this reference The Origins of the Goat of Mendes. http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Goat.html
You can look into it If you wish, but personally I think the connection that is seemingly trying to be made is far fetched and the idea of Christians blaming the Devil for their sins rather opinionated.
The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a targeted hit piece against the supposed character of some Christians, that I have not met yet.
My guess is he is somehow trying to make it sound as if the belief in the existence of Satan is to fabricate some diabolical imagery in wish we can blame for the sins that we have on our own slate.
I have no real idea where or when the imagery of a goat was attached to that of Satan. If any of our Pagan brothers can help out here, I would gratefully appropriate it.
I did google it and came up with this reference The Origins of the Goat of Mendes. http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/Goat.html
You can look into it If you wish, but personally I think the connection that is seemingly trying to be made is far fetched and the idea of Christians blaming the Devil for their sins rather opinionated.
The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a targeted hit piece against the supposed character of some Christians, that I have not met yet.
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Abram's Awakening
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Gentlemen... Consider the book of Job. Satan was allowed to test him. Even so those who commit sin, evil came upon them. We only have ourselves to blame. For how can one truly be healed if one does not know or understand the folly that leads him astray? These are testing grounds amongst trials of tribulation...
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
Giving him the benefit of doubt, I would say that that which is written down in the Bible was fairly clear and the practice I think was fairly akin to that which Jesus took upon himself when he died for our sins and the the reason that we must go through him to get to God. That's my take on it and I reference the quote" No one can reach the Father except through me" as a reference for that belief.Because the opinions of non-Christians are so important and relevant in determining Christian doctrine...
In the pursuit of knowledge, It might be intriguing to get the Jewish perspective on this issue, but I agree it wouldn't rise to the level of effecting Christianity in any way, shape or form. I love our Jewish brothers and hope the best for them, wherever they find themselves.
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Well, excellent
You've managed to calm down and stop complaining { for the most part }
I wouldn't worry about character assassination, you do fine with no help
Thanks
You've managed to calm down and stop complaining { for the most part }
I wouldn't worry about character assassination, you do fine with no help
Thanks
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AHH who-stole-my-name
in accordance with Christ
You are no part of this. What has been discussed is between those who have already acknowledged your lack of integrity and have bypassed you in this.
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I suggest you hit the road then, your opinions are just getting redundant
So here is what the simple Wiki says:
" A concept superficially similar to the biblical scapegoat is attested in two ritual texts in archives at Ebla of the 24th century BC. They were connected with ritual purification on the occasion of the king's wedding. In them, a she-goat with a silver bracelet hung from her neck was driven forth into the wasteland of "Alini"; "we" in the report of the ritual involves the whole community. Such "elimination rites", in which an animal, without confession of sins, is the vehicle of evils (not sins) that are chased from the community are widely attested in the Ancient Near East. "
" The Ancient Greeks practiced a scapegoating rite in which a cripple or beggar or criminal (the pharmakos) was cast out of the community, either in response to a natural disaster (such as a plague, famine or an invasion) or in response to a calendrical crisis (such as the end of the year). The scholia refer to the pharmakos being killed, but many scholars reject this, and argue that the earliest evidence (the fragments of the iambic satirist Hipponax) only show the pharmakos being stoned, beaten and driven from the community. "
So here is what the simple Wiki says:
" A concept superficially similar to the biblical scapegoat is attested in two ritual texts in archives at Ebla of the 24th century BC. They were connected with ritual purification on the occasion of the king's wedding. In them, a she-goat with a silver bracelet hung from her neck was driven forth into the wasteland of "Alini"; "we" in the report of the ritual involves the whole community. Such "elimination rites", in which an animal, without confession of sins, is the vehicle of evils (not sins) that are chased from the community are widely attested in the Ancient Near East. "
" The Ancient Greeks practiced a scapegoating rite in which a cripple or beggar or criminal (the pharmakos) was cast out of the community, either in response to a natural disaster (such as a plague, famine or an invasion) or in response to a calendrical crisis (such as the end of the year). The scholia refer to the pharmakos being killed, but many scholars reject this, and argue that the earliest evidence (the fragments of the iambic satirist Hipponax) only show the pharmakos being stoned, beaten and driven from the community. "
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Abram's Awakening
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I certainly hope you're not referring to me? And if you are, who said anything about opinions? I didn't come to state opinions and engage in mindless controversy. I came to present truth in a good faith.
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I suggest you hit the road then, your opinions are just getting redundant
So here is what the simple Wiki says:
" A concept superficially similar to the biblical scapegoat is attested in two ritual texts in archives at Ebla of the 24th century BC. They were connected with ritual purification on the occasion of the king's wedding. In them, a she-goat with a silver bracelet hung from her neck was driven forth into the wasteland of "Alini"; "we" in the report of the ritual involves the whole community. Such "elimination rites", in which an animal, without confession of sins, is the vehicle of evils (not sins) that are chased from the community are widely attested in the Ancient Near East. "
" The Ancient Greeks practiced a scapegoating rite in which a cripple or beggar or criminal (the pharmakos) was cast out of the community, either in response to a natural disaster (such as a plague, famine or an invasion) or in response to a calendrical crisis (such as the end of the year). The scholia refer to the pharmakos being killed, but many scholars reject this, and argue that the earliest evidence (the fragments of the iambic satirist Hipponax) only show the pharmakos being stoned, beaten and driven from the community. "
The scapegoat symbology, doesn't really imply it wasn't our fault now does it? Did it ever? We're probably looking for something even after the 1st century A.D. after the concept of being dammed after post-babtismal sins. Reasoned by Christians postponing baptism to a deathbed. Others baptized earlier needed an out. Just a thought.
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LOL, ....is that really a link from the " joyofsatan ministries " ?
Please say it ain't so, Joe
Please say it ain't so, Joe
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Wgw
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@Isaacsname
What you have not done thus far is express what it is you are actually trying to argue, at least not in a way I myself or several other members of considerable learning and erudition can decipher. If you might seek to express your view with grearer clarity, we might well make progress.
What you have not done thus far is express what it is you are actually trying to argue, at least not in a way I myself or several other members of considerable learning and erudition can decipher. If you might seek to express your view with grearer clarity, we might well make progress.
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