Why do people believe in a Rapture?

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Short Timer said:

No Jews is going to make peace with the Muslims,
and No Muslim is going to make peace with the Jews.

and the only connection between the Muslims/Jews is "Abraham", both claim him for their "Father",
Jews through Issac, Muslims through Ishmael, which they claim was the "Firstborn" of Abraham and Issac stole his "Birthright".

One mention of Jesus and both Jews/Muslim will reject him in a heartbeat.

You really should stay up on what is really happening in the world.

http://shoebat.com/2015/04/29/the-a...-death-a-prelude-to-antichrists-peace-treaty/
 
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Short Timer said:

How many people did God tell Israel to kill to keep their "idol worshiping" from contaminating Israel???



De 3:3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.


De 3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.


Do you really believe God had all of those people destroyed , men, women and CHILDERN just because of idol worship.


How about spending some time in Gen 6 till you figure what really happened and why a merciful God would wipe out entire groups of people.

Hint:
Deut 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.
 
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Riberra

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Of course those who have already fought/won (overcome/crucified) the war against the flesh won't have to fight in this final war against Satan,

Their "medal of Honor" is being accounted worthy to escape this coming war.

-Tell us how you have (overcome/crucified) the war against the flesh ?
-Do you have a flesh body anymore ?
-Are you (like) an angel ?
-Are you transparent (transparency)?
-Can you see your reflexion in a mirror?
 
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Short Timer

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Short Timer said:

How many people did God tell Israel to kill to keep their "idol worshiping" from contaminating Israel???



De 3:3 So the LORD our God delivered into our hands Og also, the king of Bashan, and all his people: and we smote him until none was left to him remaining.


De 3:6 And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon, utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city.


Do you really believe God had all of those people destroyed , men, women and CHILDERN just because of idol worship.


How about spending some time in Gen 6 till you figure what really happened and why a merciful God would wipe out entire groups of people.

Hint:
Deut 3:11 For only Og king of Bashan remained of the remnant of giants; behold his bedstead was a bedstead of iron; is it not in Rabbath of the children of Ammon? nine cubits was the length thereof, and four cubits the breadth of it, after the cubit of a man.

De 7:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and hath cast out many nations before thee, the Hittites, and the Girgashites, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and mightier than thou;

2 And when the LORD thy God shall deliver them before thee; thou shalt smite them, and utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor shew mercy unto them:

3 Neither shalt thou make marriages with them; thy daughter thou shalt not give unto his son, nor his daughter shalt thou take unto thy son.

4 For they will turn away thy son from following me, that they may serve other gods: so will the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and destroy thee suddenly.
 
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Short Timer

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Short Timer said:

No Jews is going to make peace with the Muslims,
and No Muslim is going to make peace with the Jews.

and the only connection between the Muslims/Jews is "Abraham", both claim him for their "Father",
Jews through Issac, Muslims through Ishmael, which they claim was the "Firstborn" of Abraham and Issac stole his "Birthright".

One mention of Jesus and both Jews/Muslim will reject him in a heartbeat.

You really should stay up on what is really happening in the world.

http://shoebat.com/2015/04/29/the-a...-death-a-prelude-to-antichrists-peace-treaty/

Turks are not the first to try and broker a treaty between Israel and Arabs, but all have failed and will continue to fail until the AC makes his treaty.

What you and the world fail to understand is that both Jews and Arabs will believe the AC is God's personal Representative sent to bring peace to the region, so he won't be perceived as being a representative of some Government but of God,

To the Jews the Messiah, to the Arabs, the 12 Imam.
 
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Short Timer

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-Tell us how you have (overcome/crucified) the war against the flesh ?
-Do you have a flesh body anymore ?
Yep, it's the "walking dead".
Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead

-Are you (like) an angel ?
Yep, like an angel of the Lord , conforming to Jesus image.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,

-Are you transparent (transparency)?
I must be if people can see that little light burning inside of me.

-Can you see your reflexion in a mirror?
Carnal eyes still see the carnal, but the "real me" is Spiritual,
It doesn't show up in a mirror.
 
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Short Timer

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And in your mind those "Rules of Interpretation" are those "Precepts" that make John Darby's doctrine work, by placing a manmade "gap" of about 2,000 years into Daniel chapter 9 and having the modern Jews going back to the obsolete Old Covenant system 7 years before the return of Christ. You want these Jews to rebuild a temple in Jerusalem and renew animal sacrifices by somehow sewing the temple veil back together again.

And this will be accomplished through a "Secret Rapture" of the Church, which was revealed through the 1830 "vision" of a 15 year old girl named Margaret Macdonald, who was later revealed to be a false prophet.

And we are supposed to make all of this fit neatly into the pages of our Bibles.

Are you serious?

Jews can't get this Mystery Gentiles church/rapture to fit into their bible either.

When it comes to understanding scripture you're in the same sinking boat as the Jews.
 
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Riberra

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Yep, it's the "walking dead".
Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead


Yep, like an angel of the Lord , conforming to Jesus image.
Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,


I must be if people can see that little light burning inside of me.


Carnal eyes still see the carnal, but the "real me" is Spiritual,
It doesn't show up in a mirror.
We were waiting for you....are you ready ?

Hebrews 12

22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.

27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
 
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Short Timer

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We were waiting for you....are you ready ?

Who is "WE"????

Hebrews 12
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.

I've always thought it was kinda funny how so many people can have so many difference doctrines while claiming to be taught by the same God who teaches the doctrine himself,

yet most of the doctrines contradict each other.

You would think with Hell being the consequences of being wrong there would be enough "fear" in people to get serious and ask God if it was them who was wrong.

But man's worse enemy, himself or "pride of the flesh" stands in the way, which is why the "Spirit/soul" must be willing to "put to death" the flesh or crucify the body of sin first.

It appears many try to get their flesh and soul to "Harmonize" or come to a peace agreement where salvation and doctrine are concerned, but this is how that "way that seemeth right" enter the picture, and all these different doctrines.

They don't really have a "war" going on inside themselves between the lust of the flesh and their soul,

Paul said the things he shouldn't do, he still does, and his body of sin had to die daily, clearly a war between the flesh and Spirit,

and it's in fighting this war within yourself that makes an "Overcomer".

Ro 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Ro 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Whenever the flesh and spirit can comes to an agreement on the doctrines of God, it's a "Covenant with hell".
 
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BABerean2

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Whenever the flesh and spirit can comes to an agreement on the doctrines of God, it's a "Covenant with hell".

Truer words have never been spoken.

How about John Nelson Darby's doctrine, which was brought to America after the Civil War?
Would it be an example of the "feel good", "no persecution", "I like this version better", "we are out of here before the trouble begins", doctrine of the flesh???

.
 
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Pastor Carl Gallups on the Two Witnesses and Rapture timing...

Baptist pastors who do not follow John Darby's doctrine are very rare. Here is one of them.




Great video, but I guess that’s just my opinion. My challenge to pretribbers is to listen without those “preconceived glasses”on. Answer some of the questions raised with” bible” try to stay away from some of those tactics we’ve witnessed so frequently on this site. If you listen you will know what tactics I’m talking about.

BaB, thanks for posting this. I have currently been working on a possible post lining up Revelation with Matt 24. Looks like Carl believes there are parallels there as well.
 
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Short Timer

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Truer words have never been spoken.

How about John Nelson Darby's doctrine, which was brought to America after the Civil War?
Would it be an example of the "feel good", "no persecution", "I like this version better", "we are out of here before the trouble begins", doctrine of the flesh???

Yep, Kinda like that "Other Mystery" that was kept hid from the foundation of the world until it was revealed to the "Saints" at the time appointed but the rest of the world still don't understand it.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

And part of that "Mystery" is the "pre trib Rapture" involving nobody but the "Saints" that belong to that "Mystery".

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Anyone with minimal knowledge of scripture knows that God don't deal with the Jews at the same time Jesus deals with the church.

Problem is most don't know enough about the scriptures to know "WHY" both Jews and Church can't be dealt with at the same time.

They don't know what fulness of the Gentiles means or who this "HE" represents that is 'taken out of the way" before the wicked is revealed, or who those are that have the covenant confirmed with them during the week of the trib,

And worse of all, they even claim people who are not "members" of this "mystery" will be rapture along with those who are Members.

But the carnal mind has never let a little ignorance stop it from proclaim "it's intelligence's".







 
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BABerean2

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BaB, thanks for posting this. I have currently been working on a possible post lining up Revelation with Matt 24. Looks like Carl believes there are parallels there as well.

Pastor Gallups is a neat guy.
It is refreshing to see someone use the Bible to interpret the Bible, without the manmade doctrine.
He has probably been attacked for daring to doubt John Darby's version.

If you want to show someone the origin of Darby's doctrine, print out the following written by a Brethren Historian and give them a copy.
Pages 10-26 contain the Brethren history.



PROPHETIC DEVELOPMENTS
with particular reference to the early Brethren Movement.
F. Roy Coad (Brethren Historian) read pages 10-26
http://brethrenhistory.org/qwicsitePro/php/docsview.php?docid=418

.
 
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Bro.T

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I’m always open to what others have learned from scripture, but you have to understand too, I am a show me person, when I have a question or disagreement I will voice it. Not as an attack but as a way of back and forth discussion. If I’m wrong somewhere show me. Now to those seven heads and Ten horns.

Lets start with the first and second head...we will start this study in Daniel chapter 2. Each nation or people had a chance to rule, but only one people ran the entire world, and that was the sons of Japheth. The Bible speaks of other great nations such as Egypt and her Pharaohs, and also Israel and her Kings but, these people never rule the entire world. The sons of Japheth are called Gentiles. This has nothing to do with religion or beliefs. Gentiles are simply sons of Japheth. We will start at the beginning of the Gentile dynasty with the King of Babylon, which was Nebuchadnezzar. We will end this study at the Roman Empire. Today you will find out all that was written in your history book was already written by the Prophets. You will see that man could in no way have tampered with the Holy Scriptures on the scale that some believe. Let’s get started, watch how history lines up with the Holy Scripture.

Nebuchadnezzar had a dream and the dream troubled him. The problem was he could not remember or understand the dream. The King called all of his wise men and told them if they did not tell him the dream he would cut them in pieces

Daniel 2:1 And in the second year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar, Nebuchadnezzar dreamed dreams, wherewith his spirit was troubled, and his sleep brake from him. 2 Then the king commanded to call the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans, for to show the king his dreams. So they came and stood before the king. 3 And the king said unto them, I have dreamed a dream, and my spirit was troubled to know the dream. 4 Then spake the Chaldeans to the king in Syriack, O king, live for ever: tell thy servants the dream, and we will show the interpretation.

5 The king answered and said to the Chaldeans, The thing is gone from me: if ye will not make known unto me the dream, with the interpretation thereof, ye shall be cut in pieces, and your houses shall be made a dunghill.

The Kings wise men could not tell him the dream. The King then put out a decree to kill all the wise men, the magicians, and the astrologers, and the sorcerers, and the Chaldeans to be put to death. The Kings guard also sought Daniel Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah, these four were among the captives of Israel. Daniel asked Arioch the captain of the king's guard, why is the decree so hasty from the king? Then Arioch made the thing known to Daniel. Then Daniel went in, and desired of the king that he would give him time, and that he would show the king the interpretation. Daniel prayed to the God of Heaven and he answered Daniel in a vision by night. Daniel was brought to the King and gave him the interpretation of the dream.

Daniel 2:25 Then Arioch brought in Daniel before the king in haste, and said thus unto him, I have found a man of the captives of Judah, that will make known unto the king the interpretation. 26 The king answered and said to Daniel, whose name was Belteshazzar, Art thou able to make known unto me the dream which I have seen, and the interpretation thereof? 27 Daniel answered in the presence of the king, and said, The secret which the king hath demanded cannot the wise men, the astrologers, the magicians, the soothsayers, show unto the king; 28 But there is a God in heaven that revealeth secrets, and maketh known to the king Nebuchadnezzar what shall be in the latter days. Thy dream, and the visions of thy head upon thy bed, are these;

29 As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter: and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass. 30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart. 31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

There is no need for a person to try to interpret the Word of God, all you have to do is continue to read and your entire question will be answered. What did the image represent?

36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

Notice what is says, wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Where ever men or fowl or beast of the field were Nebuchadnezzar had rule over them. He was also the head of gold on the image. Look at the next verse. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

Notice what it says, after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, in verse 39 after the head of gold the image breast and arms were made of silver, this would represent the second kingdom.The third part of the image the belly and thighs of brass, represented the third kingdom that will rule the entire earth. Look at the next verse.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

Remember in verse 33 when it said the feet of the image was mix with iron and clay. Here in the 40th verse the iron represent the fourth kingdom to rule the earth. If you continue to read your question will be answered. The next verses are future. Pay close attention to 44th and 45th verses.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

Look at verse 44, it says in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. This verse lets you know these kings or kingdom will rule until the Lord comes. Look at verse 45, who is this stone cut out without hands? Look at this verse in Psalms 18.

Psalms 18:2 The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.

The Lord is that Stone that will destroy these kingdoms at his second coming.

The next set of scriptures will show how the second kingdom came into power.

Daniel 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.

2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

What are the 4 beast and what do they represent? Let’s go to Daniel chapter 5 and find a couple of these beast and find out what they mean. The Bible can speak of it’s self, there is no reason for anyone to try and guests what’s on the Lord’s mind, all you have to do is read it and take it for what it says.

In Daniel chapter 5 Belshazzar made a serious mistake, that very night he lost his life. When he lost his life another kingdom came into power. Here you will begin to see how recorded history lines up with the word of God. Take a look at who took over form Belshazzar after his death.

Daniel 5:1 Belshazzar the king made a great feast to a thousand of his lords, and drank wine before the thousand. 2 Belshazzar, whiles he tasted the wine, commanded to bring the golden and silver vessels which his father Nebuchadnezzar had taken out of the temple which was in Jerusalem; that the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, might drink therein.

3 Then they brought the golden vessels that were taken out of the temple of the house of God which was at Jerusalem; and the king, and his princes, his wives, and his concubines, drank in them. 4 They drank wine, and praised the gods of gold, and of silver, of brass, of iron, of wood, and of stone. 5 In the same hour came forth fingers of a man's hand, and wrote over against the candlestick upon the plaster of the wall of the king's palace: and the king saw the part of the hand that wrote. 6 Then the king's countenance was changed, and his thoughts troubled him, so that the joints of his loins were loosed, and his knees smote one against another. 7 The king cried aloud to bring in the astrologers, the Chaldeans, and the soothsayers. And the king spake, and said to the wise men of Babylon, Whosoever shall read this writing, and show me the interpretation thereof, shall be clothed with scarlet, and have a chain of gold about his neck, and shall be the third ruler in the kingdom.

Once again Daniel was called to give an interpretation of a vision. Look what Daniel told the king.

Daniel 5:17 Then Daniel answered and said before the king, Let thy gifts be to thyself, and give thy rewards to another; yet I will read the writing unto the king, and make known to him the interpretation.

The king asked and Daniel gave it to him. Take a look.

Daniel 5:25 And this is the writing that was written, MENE, MENE, TEKEL, UPHARSIN. 26 This is the interpretation of the thing: MENE; God hath numbered thy kingdom, and finished it. 27 TEKEL; Thou art weighed in the balances, and art found wanting. 28 PERES; Thy kingdom is divided, and given to the Medes and Persians. 29 Then commanded Belshazzar, and they clothed Daniel with scarlet, and put a chain of gold about his neck, and made a proclamation concerning him, that he should be the third ruler in the kingdom. 30 In that night was Belshazzar the king of the Chaldeans slain. 31 And Darius the Median took the kingdom, being about threescore and two years old.

As you see the kingdom was given to the Medes/Persian Empire after Belshazzar was killed. Before we move into recorded history we will list all the parts to the image and what they represent.


This image represent the entire Gentile ruler ship as seen by Nebuchadnezzar in the 2nd chapter of Daniel. Head of gold: Represents the Babylonian Empire. Breasts and arms of silver: Represents the Medo-Persian Empire Belly and thighs of brass: Represents the Greek Empire. Legs of iron: Represents the Roman Empire Feet part iron and party clay with the toes: Represent the ten nations combined to make up the European Common market

Keep these in mind as we go through the study.

This is a from Funk and Wagnall’s Encyclopedia under BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY.

BABYLONIAN CAPTIVITY or BABYLONIAN EXILE, term applied to the period between the deportation of the Jews from Palestine to Babylon by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar II and their release in 538 BC by the Persian king Cyrus. Two main deportations are recorded: one in 597 BC, when Israelite nobles, warriors, and artisans were transported; and one in 586 BC when Nebuchadnezzar's army destroyed Jerusalem, and the major part of the remaining Israelite community was taken to Babylon. At the time of the second deportation an important group of Israelites fled to Egypt; thereafter, only the poorest peasants were allowed to remain in Palestine, and the political dissolution of independent Israel was an accomplished fact. The majority of the Jews living in Babylon did not return to Palestine at the end of the exile period, but became a part of the Diaspora, or body of Jews dispersed among nations outside Palestine.

Darius the Median wasn’t mentioned is. Why? The Medes were not as powerful as the Persian Empire. That’s why history jumps to Cyrus the Great. Some of the Persian Kings took on the tile of Darius this let you know that the Medes were there first.

Now we will return to the scripture going to the Book of Ezra showing Cyrus reign, and what was his dealing with children of Israel.

Ezra 1:1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the LORD by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the LORD stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying, 2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the LORD God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem. 4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem. 5 Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem.

Take a look at verse 2, Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Notice what it says, “The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth”. This let you know Cyrus ran the entire earth. Not only that, the Lord gave him an order to rebuild His temple at Jerusalem, using only the children of Israel. If you read further in Ezra you would find out that the people of the land tried to help. The Lord used only His People (Israel) to build the temple. Take a look at this in Ezra chapter 2.

Ezra 2:1 Now these are the children of the province that went up out of the captivity, of those which had been carried away, whom Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon had carried away unto Babylon, and came again unto Jerusalem and Judah, every one unto his city; 64 The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore,

Let’s return to world history and see if it lines up with the scripture. This is from Funk and Wagnall’s encyclopedia. Remember Cyrus has inherited the kingdom from the Babylonians.


CYRUS THE GREAT (c. 600-529 BC), king of Persia (550-529 BC). He was the son of Cambyses I, a descendant of Achaemenes (Hakhamanish) (fl. 681 BC), and a member of the Achaemenid dynasty. When Cyrus became ruler (558 BC) of the Persian district of Anshan, the district was subject to the Medes; in 593 BC he led a rebellion against the Medes that resulted in the capture of King Astyages (r. about 584-c. 550 BC) and the overthrow (550 BC) of the Median Empire. Thereafter Cyrus called himself king of Persia and ruled a territory extending from the Halys River in Asia Minor, eastern border of Lydia, to the Babylonian Empire on the south and east. Babylon, Egypt, Lydia, and the city-state of Sparta in Greece combined to curb the power of Cyrus, but in 546 BC the Persians added Lydia to their realm, and in 539 BC the kingdom of Babylon fell to Cyrus. The Persian Empire was the most powerful state in the world until its conquest two centuries later by Alexander the Great. Cyrus was an able and merciful ruler. Significant among his deeds was his granting of permission to the Jews to return from their exile in Babylon to their native Israel to rebuild the Temple of Solomon. Cyrus died while leading an expedition against the eastern tribe, the Massagetae, and was succeeded by his son, who became Cambyses II.

As you can see it lines up very well.
 
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Yep, Kinda like that "Other Mystery" that was kept hid from the foundation of the world until it was revealed to the "Saints" at the time appointed but the rest of the world still don't understand it.

Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

And part of that "Mystery" is the "pre trib Rapture" involving nobody but the "Saints" that belong to that "Mystery".

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Ro 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Anyone with minimal knowledge of scripture knows that God don't deal with the Jews at the same time Jesus deals with the church.

Problem is most don't know enough about the scriptures to know "WHY" both Jews and Church can't be dealt with at the same time.

They don't know what fulness of the Gentiles means or who this "HE" represents that is 'taken out of the way" before the wicked is revealed, or who those are that have the covenant confirmed with them during the week of the trib,

And worse of all, they even claim people who are not "members" of this "mystery" will be rapture along with those who are Members.

But the carnal mind has never let a little ignorance stop it from proclaim "it's intelligence's".






Short Timer said : And part of that "Mystery" is the "pre trib Rapture" involving nobody but the "Saints" that belong to that "Mystery".

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

The mystery Paul wrote of in 1 Corin 15:51 is the mystery of the resurrection. It is absolutely not a pretrib rapture. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you and others but you keep stating the same error over and over. There is no mention anywhere in chapter 15 of going anywhere much less back heaven. Please stop with the carnal mind excuses and just point out where in 1 Corin 15 you see a caught up to heaven reference anywhere in that chapter or in any verse talking about a mystery.
 
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Riberra

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Who is "WE"????
This is your carnal mind in the flesh that stop you to figure out who the "WE" is..

Riberra said:
Hebrews 12
25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.
27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.
28 Wherefore WE receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:
29 For our God is a consuming fire.
I've always thought it was kinda funny how so many people can have so many difference doctrines while claiming to be taught by the same God who teaches the doctrine himself,

yet most of the doctrines contradict each other.
You seem to have a grief about the verses i quoted from Hebrews 12... ?
 
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BABerean2

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Eph 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

You got it.

Now let us see when the Church (the mystery) is finished.



Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The mystery (the Church) is finished at the 7th trumpet, which is the last trumpet.


1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

How could it be any clearer?

.
 
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Short Timer

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Short Timer said : And part of that "Mystery" is the "pre trib Rapture" involving nobody but the "Saints" that belong to that "Mystery".

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

The mystery Paul wrote of in 1 Corin 15:51 is the mystery of the resurrection. It is absolutely not a pretrib rapture. This has been repeatedly pointed out to you and others but you keep stating the same error over and over. There is no mention anywhere in chapter 15 of going anywhere much less back heaven. Please stop with the carnal mind excuses and just point out where in 1 Corin 15 you see a caught up to heaven reference anywhere in that chapter or in any verse talking about a mystery.

If Jesus/church are a mystery and the rapture coming is a mystery, but the second coming has been known since the beginning of time,

why do you keep insisting that the rapture coming is the same coming that has been know since the beginning of time???

This mystery rapture has to be part of this other mystery of Jesus/church, and not part of the second coming known since the beginning of time or it wouldn't be a mystery.

You keep denying that the church gets to go to the place Jesus went to prepare for us, and deny that "many" will have the covenant confirmed with them during the week of the trib.

Evidently, according to scripture the "Mysteries of God" haven't been revealed to you.

Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

You certainly don't understand this "Mystery" of Jesus/Church/Rapture.
 
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If Jesus/church are a mystery and the rapture coming is a mystery, but the second coming has been known since the beginning of time,

why do you keep insisting that the rapture coming is the same coming that has been know since the beginning of time???

This mystery rapture has to be part of this other mystery of Jesus/church, and not part of the second coming known since the beginning of time or it wouldn't be a mystery.

You keep denying that the church gets to go to the place Jesus went to prepare for us, and deny that "many" will have the covenant confirmed with them during the week of the trib.

Evidently, according to scripture the "Mysteries of God" haven't been revealed to you.

Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

You certainly don't understand this "Mystery" of Jesus/Church/Rapture.

Short Timer said:

If Jesus/church are a mystery and the rapture coming is a mystery, but the second coming has been known since the beginning of time,

The first part of your statement is true Eph 5:32 your statement “the rapture coming is a mystery” is nowhere in scripture, but apparently that doesn’t matter to you. You just keep saying it and never show a scripture to back it up.

why do you keep insisting that the rapture coming is the same coming that has been know since the beginning of time???

Because there is only one more coming of the Lord in scripture and one resurrection of the righteous dead. There is no mystery coming of which you speak in scripture. We are all still waitng for you to show it in the BIBLE. If the revelation you have is not in scripture it is worthless and not a revelation at all. Chapter and verse please.

This mystery rapture has to be part of this other mystery of Jesus/church, and not part of the second coming known since the beginning of time or it wouldn't be a mystery.

There is no mystery rapture of the church!!!!

You keep denying that the church gets to go to the place Jesus went to prepare for us, and deny that "many" will have the covenant confirmed with them during the week of the trib.

Jesus brings the place He has prepared to us Rev 21: 1-3 Rev 21:10.

Evidently, according to scripture the "Mysteries of God" haven't been revealed to you.

Is this the only type of response you have? Paul talks of several mysteries in his writings, but a mystery rapture is not among them.

Lu 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

You certainly don't understand this "Mystery" of Jesus/Church/Rapture.

If you understand it, point it out in the scripture, just that simple. Stop with the you are more spiritual and understand all mysteries talk. You wrote this whole post and did not answer one point from my post you quoted. Go back quote it again and start over. Stop hiding behind this jargon you use all the time and if you are going to debate this subject do it with scripture, no one here cares about anything else.

Watch the video BaB posted and if you think its wrong show us from scripture.
 
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