Why did God ceate such a cruel world?

Gumph · Nov 20, 2015

How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

St_Worm2 · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

Hi Gumph, you're right, this is a cruel world, but this isn't how God intended it to be when He made it. Here's part of His original plan from the 1st chapter of Genesis in the Bible. Notice, for instance, what He gave us (and the animals) for food.

26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
28 God blessed them; and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
29 Then God said, “Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you;
30 and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food”; and it was so.
31 God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. Genesis 1:26-31

As the Bible tells us, we were made in God's image. The Creation was all about life. Pain, suffering, and death were not part of God's original plan for us or this world. So the question is, what happened? How did we get from the world God intended for us to live in to the one we live in now?

The answer comes two chapters later in Genesis, where the Bible explains that it wasn't God who changed things for the worse, it was us. God gave our first parents a single commandment to obey, and He told them what the consequences would be if they chose to disobey it (see Genesis 2:16-17). The story since then has been one of us living in a misery that none of us were originally created for, and of God's great effort to save us from this life and make a way for us to be able to return to Him, and to the world and the life He originally intended for us, one free of cruelty, pain, suffering, and even death

Isaiah 11:6-9 is one of the Bible's pictures of the life of peace that was once ours in the Garden of Eden, and will be, by the grace and love of God, ours once again (however, this time, it will be forevermore

). Click here if you'd like to read it.

I'm sure you have more questions now, so I'll stop here so you can ask them.

Yours and His,
David

Hospes · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world?

The world is broken.

Aside: It's interesting that for person not believing in God, the answer to Gumph's question is usually "It's just the way it is." I find the Christian answer much more personally satisfying and hopeful; at least the Christian believes there will be an eventual fixing of this broken world. (BTW, Gumph, as an agnostic, this aside is not pointed at you.)

Winken · Nov 20, 2015

@St_Worm2, @Hospes...... Splendid.

Neogaia777 · Nov 20, 2015

This world is/was not what God intended, God created angels and humans with the free-will to choose evil and suffer the consequences... Like a fallen, cruel world...

God Bless!

ewq1938 · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?

Many diseases are man's fault.

Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?

It was how God designed this world. Why this natural brutality was allowed I do not know.

Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

While god can create such things, most are natural weather occurrences. The planet is in flux, always changing and evolving. Land masses move, which cause Earthquakes, hot air meets cold air and causes a storm, or some other event.

All these things will eventually end and the world will be peaceful and stable. I kind of think of life like bootcamp. A hard test is needed to weed out those that aren't acceptable to God in a moral sense. If one chooses to live an evil life and add extra horrors to the world than what is listed above, then they are not desirable for the kingdom of heaven. If one is loviong, peaceful and meek and follow Christ, then you will make it to the next world

oi_antz · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world? I'm not only referring to that inflicted by humans, but also to that in nature.

It is a world where everyone (everything) is obsessed with their carnal needs and desires. Whereas a world of godly people produces peace and love, because we do not care only for our selves, but we care for each other. The prophet Isaiah has expressed the vision that God showed him, of the way He wants the world to be:

In that day the wolf and the lamb will live together;
the leopard will lie down with the baby goat.
The calf and the yearling will be safe with the lion,
and a little child will lead them all.
The cow will graze near the bear.
The cub and the calf will lie down together.
The lion will eat hay like a cow.
The baby will play safely near the hole of a cobra.
Yes, a little child will put its hand in a nest of deadly snakes without harm.
Nothing will hurt or destroy in all my holy mountain,
for as the waters fill the sea,
so the earth will be filled with people who know the Lord.

I believe this was God's vision from the very beginning, when He blessed the man and woman and instructed them: fill the earth and subdue it.

Gumph said:
Why are there diseases that cause such huge suffering?

Too much wasted human resource (eg war, poverty), causing critical delays in human technological and medical advancement.

Gumph said:
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?

Is it a fact that it is necessary rather than normal? Please show me some examples that you have in mind. I know it is possible to feed cats and dogs a vegan diet, for example, so do you think it is reasonable to believe that all creatures can survive on vegan diets if they can become accustomed to it?

Gumph said:
Why have natural disasters that cause death, pain and suffering?

All 'natural disasters' are simply an inability to cope with natural conditions. Sometimes those natural conditions are made worse by human actions (eg a rise in atmospheric CO2 levels causes greater velocity of cyclonic action). Other times it is due to humans not exercising the right amount of caution (eg, the building that collapses in an earthquake could have been made more robust).

Job8 · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
How do Christians explain the cruelty that seems so common place in our world?

Why blame God when Adam is the one to be blamed? Whatever you have mentioned goes back to Adam's disobedience. However, God has made full provision in Christ to eradicate sin and evil, death and destruction, cruelty and wickedness at His Second Coming. In the meantime do your job -- get the Gospel and God's truth out to others.

paul1149 · Nov 20, 2015

Gumph said:
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?

oi_antz said:
The lion will eat hay like a cow.

I also thought of the Isaiah passage in relation to this. Remember that at the Fall, God punished the serpent by condemning him to crawl on his belly. Apparently that was not the case at the time. The conclusion is that the Fall brought physical changes in the animals to enable them to adapt to the new harsh reality.

When God created, He pronounced it "good". And when He made man, He pronounced His work "very good". I don't believe death or suffering was a part of that peaceable kingdom at all.

Indeed, to get an idea of how amazing it was back then, consider that Eve was not shocked to be communicating with a serpent. Had she been, she would have been on her guard, trying to assess the situation. But the serpent, "the most subtle of all the beasts of the field", didn't have to worry about shock value when he approached her with his "questions". Man was so in tune with nature that he communicated with animals to an extent we cannot fathom at this point.

God dwells in unapproachable light, and there is no variation or shadow in Him. Whatever evil is in this miserable world, it is not His doing. He in fact solemnly warned Adam not to sin. Indeed, God has gone to great lengths, at such a great cost, to create a remedy for our condition, a way out not only back to the pleasures of the original Garden, but to the very throne room of heaven for the bride of Christ.

Jesus' Follower · Nov 23, 2015

@Gumph, the responses above are very good answers and I cannot improve on them.

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

Thank you to all of you who have taken the time to post your thoughts and answers.

St_Worm2 said:
Hi Gumph, you're right, this is a cruel world, but this isn't how God intended it to be when He made it. Here's part of His original plan from the 1st chapter of Genesis in the Bible. Notice, for instance, what He gave us (and the animals) for food......

The answer comes two chapters later in Genesis, where the Bible explains that it wasn't God who changed things for the worse, it was us. God gave our first parents a single commandment to obey, and He told them what the consequences would be if they chose to disobey it (see Genesis 2:16-17). The story since then has been one of us living in a misery that none of us were originally created for, and of God's great effort to save us from this life and make a way for us to be able to return to Him, and to the world and the life He originally intended for us, one free of cruelty, pain, suffering, and even death

I'm sure you have more questions now, so I'll stop here so you can ask them.

Yours and His,
David

Why is it that we and the other animals of this planet should be punished so harshly for the sins of our ancestors?
Surely an all powerful God would not have created creatures who were unable to obey a simple order?

Hospes said:
The world is broken.

Aside: It's interesting that for person not believing in God, the answer to Gumph's question is usually "It's just the way it is." I find the Christian answer much more personally satisfying and hopeful; at least the Christian believes there will be an eventual fixing of this broken world. (BTW, Gumph, as an agnostic, this aside is not pointed at you.)

Lol, no offense taken - its pretty much true in any case.
I wish I had your faith (using the word in its normal non-religious context).

Neogaia777 said:
This world is/was not what God intended, God created angels and humans with the free-will to choose evil and suffer the consequences... Like a fallen, cruel world...

Did he make a mistake then?
How does disease fall under the category of choosing evil and suffering the consequences?

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

ewq1938 said:
Many diseases are man's fault.

It was how God designed this world. Why this natural brutality was allowed I do not know.

While god can create such things, most are natural weather occurrences. The planet is in flux, always changing and evolving. Land masses move, which cause Earthquakes, hot air meets cold air and causes a storm, or some other event.

All these things will eventually end and the world will be peaceful and stable. I kind of think of life like bootcamp. A hard test is needed to weed out those that aren't acceptable to God in a moral sense. If one chooses to live an evil life and add extra horrors to the world than what is listed above, then they are not desirable for the kingdom of heaven. If one is loviong, peaceful and meek and follow Christ, then you will make it to the next world

I'm thinking along the lines of cancer, parkinsons, altzheimers, malaria, down syndrome .... I'm not sure how you can blame these on man.

I respect you for saying that you do not know. It shows an honesty that creates respect from my perspective.

Why not simply create a world that was stable in the first place? I'm still concerned about the existence of natural disasters, before even considering man made disasters.

oi_antz said:
It is a world where everyone (everything) is obsessed with their carnal needs and desires. Whereas a world of godly people produces peace and love, because we do not care only for our selves, but we care for each other.

I believe this was God's vision from the very beginning, when He blessed the man and woman and instructed them: fill the earth and subdue it.

Too much wasted human resource (eg war, poverty), causing critical delays in human technological and medical advancement.

Is it a fact that it is necessary rather than normal? Please show me some examples that you have in mind. I know it is possible to feed cats and dogs a vegan diet, for example, so do you think it is reasonable to believe that all creatures can survive on vegan diets if they can become accustomed to it?

All 'natural disasters' are simply an inability to cope with natural conditions. Sometimes those natural conditions are made worse by human actions (eg a rise in atmospheric CO2 levels causes greater velocity of cyclonic action). Other times it is due to humans not exercising the right amount of caution (eg, the building that collapses in an earthquake could have been made more robust).

Why does he not just create a world as he wants it? Why this painful transition?
Why should human medical advancement even be required?

Some natural examples I had in mind:
- African Wild Dogs kill their prey by eating it on the run until it dies from exhaustion and blood loss.
- Crocodiles kill their land prey by drowning it.
- The tape worm feeds from the intestines of animals causing great discomfort and sometimes even death.
- Parisitoids - a group of animals/insects which lay their eggs in a living host and then hatch and feed off it until it dies.

What about natural disasters such as droughts and floods (before the time of global warming), volcanic eruptions ... essentially those that are not caused by man and yet cause great harm to man and animals alike?

Job8 said:
Why blame God when Adam is the one to be blamed? Whatever you have mentioned goes back to Adam's disobedience. However, God has made full provision in Christ to eradicate sin and evil, death and destruction, cruelty and wickedness at His Second Coming. In the meantime do your job -- get the Gospel and God's truth out to others.

Why must animals and Adam's decendents pay for his foolishness?
The cruelty I refer to are the incidents where I cannot see any sin occurring. It is these situations I cannot understand.
How will getting the Gospel to others prevent volcanoes, hurricanes and disease?

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

paul1149 said:
God dwells in unapproachable light, and there is no variation or shadow in Him. Whatever evil is in this miserable world, it is not His doing. He in fact solemnly warned Adam not to sin. Indeed, God has gone to great lengths, at such a great cost, to create a remedy for our condition, a way out not only back to the pleasures of the original Garden, but to the very throne room of heaven for the bride of Christ.

He created everything. How can this not be his doing? Did he not create the serpent?
Great cost? Could you explain further?
Even if there is a remedy later on, why all this current suffering that has no obvious connection to an individual's sin?

Viren · Nov 26, 2015

Gumph said:
Why is it necessary for animals to live by eating others, in some cases whilst still alive?

If you think about it the average Gazelle lifespan is 15 years and being killed by a lion takes just a few minutes. It's gruesome, but the suffering is super quick. Compare that to man's way that has people suffering in hospital beds for months with tubes in their noses and arms. Nature has much less suffering in it compared to what humans have come up with imo.

paul1149 · Nov 26, 2015

Gumph said:
He created everything. How can this not be his doing? Did he not create the serpent?
Great cost? Could you explain further?
Even if there is a remedy later on, why all this current suffering that has no obvious connection to an individual's sin?

He also created free will, without which life would mean nothing. Which would be more fulfilling to have, a wife or an ant colony? With free will comes risk, and it and its consequences are very real.

Further, God's character is one of moral order. He couldn't simply snap His fingers and, poof, solve everything. The root issues of the problem would not have been solved. History has to run its course. God's solution, however, which was very costly, is just as real as the problem, and, in fact, solves the problem and then some. But the first thing you need to understand is the gravity of sin's incompatibility with God's nature, and then the sublime way He works without transgressing our free will. Then you will see why we're in the mess we are in, but also, that even in it God is faithful to us.

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

Viren said:
If you think about it the average Gazelle lifespan is 15 years and being killed by a lion takes just a few minutes. It's gruesome, but the suffering is super quick. Compare that to man's way that has people suffering in hospital beds for months with tubes in their noses and arms. Nature has much less suffering in it compared to what humans have come up with imo.

Still, why the inevitable gruesome death at the end?
Then what about all those deaths that are protracted:
- The Gazelle injured but not killed, that dies slowly - relatively speaking.
- The lion who is injured and dies slowly from hunger as he cannot feed.
- Death by disease.

Its interesting that you bring up the hospital suffering. Is this not a suffering caused by Christianity? Though shalt not kill? So instead we keep them alive even when there is no realistic chance of survival.

Just because nature has less suffering, doesn't really explain why there needs to be any suffering at all in the first place.

paul1149 said:
He also created free will, without which life would mean nothing. Which would be more fulfilling to have, a wife or an ant colony? With free will comes risk, and it and its consequences are very real.

Further, God's character is one of moral order. He couldn't simply snap His fingers and, poof, solve everything. The root issues of the problem would not have been solved. History has to run its course. God's solution, however, which was very costly, is just as real as the problem, and, in fact, solves the problem and then some. But the first thing you need to understand is the gravity of sin's incompatibility with God's nature, and then the sublime way He works without transgressing our free will. Then you will see why we're in the mess we are in, but also, that even in it God is faithful to us.

Well this gives a possible explanation for suffering due to sin, but my question is really about the suffering when there is no obvious sin. Is cancer a consequence of free will?

ewq1938 · Nov 26, 2015

Gumph said:
I'm thinking along the lines of cancer, parkinsons, altzheimers, malaria, down syndrome .... I'm not sure how you can blame these on man.

Smoking leads to many diseases. Man has either created or has done things to themselves which results in things they wouldn't have otherwise ended up with.

I respect you for saying that you do not know. It shows an honesty that creates respect from my perspective.

The best guess is this is kind of a test and the potential for brutality is simply part of it. Many do wonder why didn't God just find those he knew wouldn't live right and do judgment day without all this mortal Earthly lives.

Why not simply create a world that was stable in the first place? I'm still concerned about the existence of natural disasters, before even considering man made disasters.

The universe is literally in chaos kind of like a billion balls just exploding and going everywhere, smashing into each other etc. I see the world's weather in a similar fashion. The plates are in motion, causing earthquakes and stuff...it's all kind of chaotic and we have to try to find a way to survive all of this. There are certain areas of the world that tend to experience natural disasters more so living there is taking a huge risk with your life.

Why does he not just create a world as he wants it? Why this painful transition?
Why should human medical advancement even be required?

Many will claim the earth was cursed when Adam sinned and all this is his fault. I am not of that opinion.

Some natural examples I had in mind:
- African Wild Dogs kill their prey by eating it on the run until it dies from exhaustion and blood loss.
- Crocodiles kill their land prey by drowning it.
- The tape worm feeds from the intestines of animals causing great discomfort and sometimes even death.
- Parisitoids - a group of animals/insects which lay their eggs in a living host and then hatch and feed off it until it dies.

And those aren't even the worst that exists.

How will getting the Gospel to others prevent volcanoes, hurricanes and disease?

That isn't the purpose of the Gospel. It is the good news that after this life there is a perfect one without all the negativities of this one.

paul1149 · Nov 26, 2015

Gumph said:
Is cancer a consequence of free will?

If nothing else, it is a consequence of Adam's misuse of free will.

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

ewq1938 said:
Smoking leads to many diseases. Man has either created or has done things to themselves which results in things they wouldn't have otherwise ended up with.

In some cases perhaps, but surely not in many other cases?

ewq1938 said:
The best guess is this is kind of a test and the potential for brutality is simply part of it. Many do wonder why didn't God just find those he knew wouldn't live right and do judgment day without all this mortal Earthly lives.

An excellent summary of my question. I wonder why we have to guess?

ewq1938 said:
The universe is literally in chaos kind of like a billion balls just exploding and going everywhere, smashing into each other etc. I see the world's weather in a similar fashion. The plates are in motion, causing earthquakes and stuff...it's all kind of chaotic and we have to try to find a way to survive all of this.

But why? Surely its not necessary?

Gumph · Nov 26, 2015

paul1149 said:
If nothing else, it is a consequence of Adam's misuse of free will.

So we must pay for the sins of others?

Why did God ceate such a cruel world?

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