Question for Catholics: Would you approve of it if America ever became a Catholic theocracy?

Mountain_Girl406

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Why not judge it by how Vatican City is run?
Mainly because I don't know enough about the day to day affairs of Vatican City, their laws, etc. What are their laws regarding other religions being practiced by citizens? What about marriage, if two people who were married outside the Church moved to Vatican City would they still be considered married? Is divorce illegal? I know a lot more about historical Catholic theocracy than I do about Vatican City as it is today. One thing I did notice in a quick review of the Wikipedia page is that one must be Catholic to hold political office.
 
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MikeK

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Why not judge it by how Vatican City is run?

I'm guessing because Vatican City State government doesn't scale up in any obvious way. It is in a rather unique position and it isn't at all clear how VC would govern itself if it were an ocean-to-ocean country with all that goes with it. We can make a pretty solid guess about morality and law, but there would remain many questions about how the country would operate. Obviously, nuclear weapons are out. Would the economy be a Distributist system full of loosely connected local artisans? Would we live like the Apostles, giving every dime to an appointed central figure or agency to spend as the State saw fit? There are a lot of practical operations issues to consider.
 
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mark46

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Perfectly run by a perfect leader. This doesn't exist in today's world.

No, there is no perfect leader in secular democracies, secular dictatorships or in theocracies. We have no reason to believe that a Catholic theocracy would even be a reasonable place in which to live.

For almost all Americans, the idea of theocracy is a really terrible idea. This countries founding documents were drawn to prevent such a travesty. And yes, I understand that there are those who are fine with a dictatorship or theocracy as long as they think that their ideas are the ones being used to run the country.
 
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eastcoast_bsc

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Would you approve of it if the American people were to ever decide by a vote to put the Catholic bishops in charge of the government and then base all (with no exceptions) of its laws on the teachings of the Catholic Magisterium? That means that on all the hot-button political issues—abortion, homosexuality, embryonic stem cells, climate change, immigration, euthanasia, capital punishment—the teaching in the Catholicism of the Catholic Church would be applied. Would you approve of that? This is a yes or no question, and my answer is yes I would approve of it. And, as all the regulars here know, I'm a conservative.


No I Wouldn't and I get your point regarding Islamic Theocracies.
 
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Aelred of Rievaulx

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I wouldn't want anywhere to become a Catholic theocracy. Secularism and democratic states are the best forms of governance which exist. I still think that the Western world has an absolute ethical responsibility to dealing with refugees and that capital punishment is egregious and indicates an immature society. While I would never tell any woman what to do with her body, it's hers and doesn't belong to anyone else, I see the prevalence of abortion as part and parcel of a lack of responsibility and moral seriousness. I'd consider the best way to deal with it as creating the best possible living standards for societies, giving women the best framework to choose to bring up children. I think it's horrible that a woman can go bankrupt because she is forced to have a child. Also, I'm of the opinion that the Church should be queer friendly, that there is no biblical basis for homophobia and that the queer friendly traditions which have predominated the Church in the medieval era should be re-explored.
 
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LoAmmi

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No, there is no perfect leader in secular democracies, secular dictatorships or in theocracies. We have no reason to believe that a Catholic theocracy would even be a reasonable place in which to live.

For almost all Americans, the idea of theocracy is a really terrible idea. This countries founding documents were drawn to prevent such a travesty. And yes, I understand that there are those who are fine with a dictatorship or theocracy as long as they think that their ideas are the ones being used to run the country.

LWU said when Jesus came according to your theology. That would be a perfect leader, no?
 
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Michie

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When Jesus comes secularism will go the way of the dinosaur. There will be no secularism.


LWU said when Jesus came according to your theology. That would be a perfect leader, no?
 
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mark46

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LWU said when Jesus came according to your theology. That would be a perfect leader, no?

When the meshiach comes, Jews and Gentiles will worship together in the temple. He will clarify how many times he has come before. Yes, Jesus would be a perfect leader. We have no reason to consider what the form of government would be in the New Jerusalem.
 
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Jordan Kurecki

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As a Protestant I would never vote to impose my doctrines on you.
Both Protestants and Catholics have been notorious in the past for persecuting those who believed differently than them.
Baptist have been persecuted and killed by both Catholics and Protestants down through the ages.
 
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Hank77

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katerinah1947

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Would you approve of it if the American people were to ever decide by a vote to put the Catholic bishops in charge of the government and then base all (with no exceptions) of its laws on the teachings of the Catholic Magisterium? That means that on all the hot-button political issues—abortion, homosexuality, embryonic stem cells, climate change, immigration, euthanasia, capital punishment—the teaching in the Catholicism of the Catholic Church would be applied. Would you approve of that? This is a yes or no question, and my answer is yes I would approve of it. And, as all the regulars here know, I'm a conservative.

Edit:
I don't mind if a non-Catholic replies in this thread.

Hi,

No. Letting imperfect understanding and imperfect people run things again, might get us another Inquistion, or not allow the civilian governments to correct the errors that we have just recently seen in the church. This existed once.

Even Jesus Biblically, told his apostles one day, that they did not know the spirit that was in them.

LOVE,
 
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FlaviusAetius

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I would want to see a Catholic theocracy, I think the current catechism leaves enough tolerance of heresy that non Catholics would be mostly well off. However placing it on the remnants of the USA which is mostly secularists and protestants would mean this theocracy would have large and constant insurrection from nationalists, protestants and secularists.

The theocracy would be forced to either bare with constant terrorism from these factions or have to wipe them out with wide scale violence.

At that point I think it would be more evil than good to have to exterminate all opposition. I'm not sure if it's weak or lacking in faith to prefer keeping a godless but peaceful state like the USA over a Catholic theocracy that would be filled with terrorism, instability and have to constantly kill its own citizens.
 
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pdudgeon

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I would want to see a Catholic theocracy, I think the current catechism leaves enough tolerance of heresy that non Catholics would be mostly well off. However placing it on the remnants of the USA which is mostly secularists and protestants would mean this theocracy would have large and constant insurrection from nationalists, protestants and secularists.

The theocracy would be forced to either bare with constant terrorism from these factions or have to wipe them out with wide scale violence.

At that point I think it would be more evil than good to have to exterminate all opposition. I'm not sure if it's weak or lacking in faith to prefer keeping a godless but peaceful state like the USA over a Catholic theocracy that would be filled with terrorism, instability and have to constantly kill its own citizens.

i think that the real point here is that having chosen a life lived in sin, it is the result of that choice of sin that is killing them already--they just don't know it.
like a crab in warm water they are slowly being cooked alive.

In a Catholic theocracy they would have a chance to recognize that fact, and then choose whether they want to live by God's laws or die in their sin.
Those who revolt would be siding with satan against God and what He ordained.
Remember, the Earth is God's creation and His footstool.
If He desires in the end that it be Catholic, then Catholic it will be.
 
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Armoured

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Would you approve of it if the American people were to ever decide by a vote to put the Catholic bishops in charge of the government and then base all (with no exceptions) of its laws on the teachings of the Catholic Magisterium?
No. I would strongly disapprove, briefly, until sheer terror took over for the short period until the unrestricted thermonuclear exchange incinerated humanity.
 
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pdudgeon

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No. I would strongly disapprove, briefly, until sheer terror took over for the short period until the unrestricted thermonuclear exchange incinerated humanity.

and what then?
would you be alive in Christ or dead as a door nail?
 
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hsilgne

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Hi,

No. Letting imperfect understanding and imperfect people run things again, might get us another Inquistion, or not allow the civilian governments to correct the errors that we have just recently seen in the church. This existed once.

Even Jesus Biblically, told his apostles one day, that they did not know the spirit that was in them.

LOVE,
I agree with katerinah.
While the Church is Holy the men who lead it are not. For this reason a Catholic theocracy didn't work a thousand years ago and wouldn't work now.
 
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Hank77

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I agree with katerinah.
While the Church is Holy the men who lead it are not. For this reason a Catholic theocracy didn't work a thousand years ago and wouldn't work now.
Neither would it work under any other denomination. It was tried by Calvin and the Reformist in Geneva and it didn't work there either.
 
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