Time to pull the kids from public schools

Zandy12 · Nov 25, 2015

I am not cursing in the name of Jesus, how dare you. You seem to carry an extremist view of public school and have said that you're "highly opposed" to home schooling or any sort of private education because it considered as "child abuse"? That sounds a little arrogant and narrow-minded forgive me for saying that. I've met home-schooled kids and they sounded more intelligent and socially mature to me than many kids combined that come out of public school. Are you really arguing the point that government-funded Common core education is the best way to go for a kids future??

RedPonyDriver · Nov 25, 2015

"Common Core" is a boogeyman that's been blown out of proportion. As someone who has run businesses and taught at the college level, I can tell the difference between homeschooled/Christian schooled kids and public school kids. The homeschooled kids tend to have very little in the way of interests outside of a very narrow band. Often they are lacking in the basic knowledge needed to successfully complete freshman level classes. Christian school kids, depending on the school are better, and public school kids tend to be the most motivated and best prepared. The homeschooled kids, as a rule, have no idea how to do independent research, write a research/term paper, and can't even figure out how to access the most basic information on formatting said papers. They tend to get up and walk out of class or enter a debate with the instructor when they hear something that may contradict whatever they've been told.

and..."how dare I"? It's easy...I live in the real world where my ideas, opinions and yes, beliefs are challenged fairly regularly. The little hot-house flowers do not possess the strength to think on their own. I can't tell you the phone calls I've gotten (as a college instructor) from disgruntled parents because little Johnny had NO clue how to write a paper I assigned on a certain topic, had no idea what kind of research to do, and decided to use quotes from the bible to back up his assertions (this would be in a freshman/sophomore year engineering class). That paper got a big fat F and instruction to little Johnny to try it again, only this time use REAL sources.

I did attend Catholic schools for part of my educational career, transferring to a public high school. I have degrees from both secular and Christian universities. I have taught in both community colleges and 4 year schools. So...I'd have to say I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes a decent education...and homeschooling for religious reasons usually does not provide the rigorous academics needed to succeed in the real world.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 25, 2015

4thWatch said:
The curriculum is not aimed at Judeo-Christian ethics as it was in the past rather school is now an arm of the Democratic Party who's Union teachers have motives that aren't good for your children.

Good. Teachers should unionise to protect their jobs.

4thWatch said:
lesson plans pop up that teach children that the Muslim religion is not only acceptable but true.

This is really refreshing news. I doubt that the public schools teach any religion as "true" or "false" but broadly as "data", but it's really good to hear that Islam is not being stigmatised as a violent religion.

4thWatch said:
The sex education is becoming outrageous with ever younger children being exposed to it.

Great news again.

4thWatch said:
This is part of the left wings push to normalize homosexuality through propagandizing our youth.

This is also good. I would find it horrible if a school were teaching children that homosexuality is not normal.

4thWatch said:
The whole social dynamic of school is now set up as an indoctrination of our children into the left wings way of seeing things.

Speaking as a leftist, this just makes me gitty.

Thanks for sharing.

BobRyan · Nov 25, 2015

TheDag said:
Mostly what I see is unsubstantiated claims with no evidence to support them. People say the same thing is happening here but it isn't. Too many christians respond to equal treatment by saying help help we are being persecuted.
The OP claims union teachers are bad for kids which really is saying unions are bad for christians even though it was christians involved at the beginning of unions and that unions aims very much line up with christian values. It tends to be the republican party whose values do not match christian values except for a couple of things.
The objection to sex education also requires further scrutiny. It has been shown those excluded from sex education are more likely to be targeted for child sexual abuse. So it makes good sense in that regard. Although yes there can be concerns.

Another poster claimed co-ed bathrooms are a concern. Really? We share the same bathroom at home so no real issue there. Everyone goes into a stall is all and area for washing hands is shared. This also helps overcome legal issues for places in some areas. So offer a cheaper alternative to address those legal issues and I'll listen.

Glossing over all the details in the discussion does not make for a compelling answer.
1. In your home -- you do not have a co-ed bathroom where multiple people use it at the same time. Obvious detail that prevents equivocating between co-ed bathrooms in the home - vs in public places like schools.
2. The justices at the Supreme court stated clearly - this SSM fiasco would be a problem for Christians and Religious Liberty in general since almost no religion with any kind of moral conscience would go for it.
3. The Christians being sued and tossed in jail so far - debunk all the "nothing to see here -- keep on sleeping" solutions.

BobRyan · Nov 25, 2015

RedPonyDriver said:
I did attend Catholic schools for part of my educational career, transferring to a public high school. I have degrees from both secular and Christian universities. I have taught in both community colleges and 4 year schools. So...I'd have to say I have a pretty good idea of what constitutes a decent education...and homeschooling for religious reasons usually does not provide the rigorous academics needed to succeed in the real world.

Which is not true "in real life" -- in real life my daughter's home schooled through high school - received engineering scholarship and graduated near the top of their class from NC State - a school that specializes in engineering programs.

RedPonyDriver · Nov 25, 2015

BobRyan said:
Which is not true "in real life" -- in real life my daughter's home schooled through high school - received engineering scholarship and graduated near the top of their class from NC State - a school that specializes in engineering programs.

Anecdotal evidence. if you will re-read what I said, the word "usually" was used. In other words, in my experience, over many years and many students, there were not many who were suited for college after being homeschooled for religious reasons. And...seeing your grammar...I rest my case.

TheDag · Nov 28, 2015

BobRyan said:
Glossing over all the details in the discussion does not make for a compelling answer.
1. In your home -- you do not have a co-ed bathroom where multiple people use it at the same time. Obvious detail that prevents equivocating between co-ed bathrooms in the home - vs in public places like schools.
2. The justices at the Supreme court stated clearly - this SSM fiasco would be a problem for Christians and Religious Liberty in general since almost no religion with any kind of moral conscience would go for it.
3. The Christians being sued and tossed in jail so far - debunk all the "nothing to see here -- keep on sleeping" solutions.

If you are going to respond to me out of context then you should not respond. I explained how the co-ed bathrooms would work.

Hetta · Nov 28, 2015

bbbbbbb said:
The only reason I would change schools for my children (and I do not have any, so this is a moot point with me) would be if the alternative provided a better education. As it is, I have observed the outcome of many families who have decided to go the route of home schooling. In too many cases the mother (it is almost invariably the wife who becomes the teacher) is very inexperienced and ill-equipped to provide a better education for her children than the public schools offer. In large famlies, which is all-too-often the scenario for home schooling because the culture of Christian home-schooling is frequently intertwined with the belief in a divine mandate to be as fruitful as biologically possible, the burden of teaching six or more children of varying ages and development is difficult for even the most experienced teacher. Add to that the standard household duties of laundry, cooking, housecleaning, and parenting (which is altogether different than education) the result has been many children who lack the necessary abilities which would enable them to either pursue higher education or to obtain employment in the public workplace.

I have seen this play out many, many times. The reality is that most parents with a better than high school education generally have a career, and cannot simply quit working to raise their kids. In an ideal world, sure, but that's not where we live. What I have frequently seen is a parent with a high school education "homeschooling" kids to make the same mistakes they made - including the same grammar and spelling mistakes - and who have no hope of college. What a sad outlook for those kids.

Calling for parents to somehow try to afford public school OR quit their job and teach their own kids is ridiculous. Schools aren't there to maintain your kids' religious faith. They are there to educate and socialize them for college and careers. The religious education should be done at home and church.

Hetta · Nov 28, 2015

Zandy12 said:
I would want them to be teached basic human morality, virtues, decency, and devotion so they can learn to be different then the rest of the world. That they can make a difference in it.

You teach them that at home. That's not what school is for.

Hetta · Nov 28, 2015

BobRyan said:
3. The Christians being sued and tossed in jail so far - debunk all the "nothing to see here -- keep on sleeping" solutions.

Cite the cases where Christians have been tossed in jail for anything associated with SSM.

Butterfly99 · Nov 28, 2015

Hetta said:
I have seen this play out many, many times. The reality is that most parents with a better than high school education generally have a career, and cannot simply quit working to raise their kids. In an ideal world, sure, but that's not where we live. What I have frequently seen is a parent with a high school education "homeschooling" kids to make the same mistakes they made - including the same grammar and spelling mistakes - and who have no hope of college. What a sad outlook for those kids.

Calling for parents to somehow try to afford public school OR quit their job and teach their own kids is ridiculous. Schools aren't there to maintain your kids' religious faith. They are there to educate and socialize them for college and careers. The religious education should be done at home and church.

I think that's true. My aunt was the one who lead us when we were homeschooling but she used to be a school principal. She definitely believes in the value of public education! She only quit because my cousin has CF and going to school was a major challenge. We're close in age so we all homeschooled together. I'm pretty sure my parents were helping them out financially cause my aunt made it into her career to educate us. They also paid grad students from GMU to teach us a lot of the higher science & math. Spanish too. I got into the magnet school cause they prepared me really well for it. We were in this homeschooling association for social stuff. Some of the kids just seemed kinda behind not just with school stuff. Just like more emotional & stuff too. Still crying over little things at 12 I mean. Stuff like that. One of my friends from there spends 2 hours a day doing her makeup. I'm not kidding. She's just so bored.

TheDag · Nov 28, 2015

Hetta said:
You teach them that at home. That's not what school is for.

If that is not what schools are for why do schools tech that stuff? Please note I am only talking about public schools not private of any kind.

Wgw · Nov 28, 2015

4thWatch said:
We are blessed to live in North Idaho where it's like the 1980s came and hid so we haven't had the problems in school others have had. That being said I think it's time for Christians to remove their children from public schools.

I think God is sending a clear message that our children are in danger at public schools both physically and spiritually. The path of God is incompatible with the path of the public school. The curriculum is not aimed at Judeo-Christian ethics as it was in the past rather school is now an arm of the Democratic Party who's Union teachers have motives that aren't good for your children.

From various states we are starting to see lesson plans pop up that teach children that the Muslim religion is not only acceptable but true. This is done to plant the seed of political correctness and blind our kids to the violence and evil nature of the Islamic faith. The sex education is becoming outrageous with ever younger children being exposed to it. This is part of the left wings push to normalize homosexuality through propagandizing our youth.

The whole social dynamic of school is now set up as an indoctrination of our children into the left wings way of seeing things. It's nothing more than a factory to turn out future voters for the Democratic Party.

There are alternatives in good Christian schools and home schooling, though the home schooling is less scary than you think. My child attends Connections Academy, it's an online school that sets up all classes, mails you your students books and has actual online classes with the teacher plus lots of work at home. If you ask me it's much closer to college anyway which is what I'm prepping him for. He's responsible to show up to class, do his work online and I look over it and submit it for grading.

I can monitor what he learns, and the friends he has made all seem to be at the school for the same reason. I've met many of the family's and they are Christians who just don't want their child involved in brainwashing that's going on at school these days.

I guess I just want to urge my fellow Christians to consider pulling their kids from public schools. It's only going to get worse and our kids are the most important things in our lives.

Can you please provide me with links to information on this? If this is true I am inclined to agree in part with your OP.

BobRyan said:
The co-ed bathroom policy that is in full bloom in some states - is just another reason to abandon public schools.

The Supreme court this year stated that the schools, the educational system is going to come after the children of Christians - to make sure they endorse same sex marriage or else are condemned in school.

Do you have more information on this?

Hetta · Nov 28, 2015

TheDag said:
If that is not what schools are for why do schools tech that stuff? Please note I am only talking about public schools not private of any kind.

They don't.

TheDag · Nov 29, 2015

Hetta said:
They don't.

I don't know where you live but my american friends tell me they do. Same goes here in public schools.

Hetta · Nov 29, 2015

TheDag said:
I don't know where you live but my american friends tell me they do. Same goes here in public schools.

If your schools are teaching kids about which faith to follow, that would be against the law in the U.S.

TheDag · Nov 30, 2015

Hetta said:
If your schools are teaching kids about which faith to follow, that would be against the law in the U.S.

The comment was about basic morals etc not faith so it is not against the law in the US. Now I see why you have responded the way you did because you assumed it was teaching which faith to follow when that is not what was said.

PloverWing · Dec 1, 2015

Public schools, I assume, vary widely, and my experience with our local public schools may well be different from 4th Watch's experience with the public schools in Idaho. Still, I feel obliged to speak up, since my experience here has been mostly very positive.

I live in a small town (about 20,000) in New Jersey, and our local school system is correspondingly small but not too small, about 1700 students for preK-12. This is big enough to have AP classes and extracurriculars, but small enough that students don't get lost in the crowd. Sure, there have been some mediocre teachers and some personality clashes; but there have also been gifted, skilled teachers who have educated my children better than I ever could. My degrees are in STEM fields, so while I could have homeschooled my children in math, I couldn't have taught them English literature or history or violin the way their high school teachers have done.

The school, like our town, has students from multiple ethnic and religious backgrounds, and it makes a conscious effort to be respectful of that variety of cultures and beliefs. My kids report that they have had interesting, intelligent conversations about religion with their classmates who are Catholic, conservative Protestant, liberal Protestant, atheist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh. I'm glad they've had that opportunity. I'm glad the students learn from each other, and challenge each other to think about what they believe and why.

Addressing some of the specifics in the original post: I'm very happy with the sex education program here, which gets pretty explicit about subjects like contraception by the high school grades. We've talked openly with our kids about sex, but sometimes it's hard to talk to your parents about personal stuff when you're 14 or 15. The teachers belong to a union; the union fights for things like decent pay, good health care, and maternity/parental leave -- I think the teachers ought to get all of those things.

My one reservation about the (American) public schools is that they cannot teach Bible and Christian theology as a school subject -- for a good reason, of course, but I can see why parents would want to choose a private school or homeschool to have more freedom to teach religion as part of the curriculum.

With that said, I disagree with the call to remove all Christian students from the public schools. If your local public school is academically strong, properly funded, and respectful toward the students' religions (including Christianity), a public school can be an excellent choice.

Butterfly99 · Dec 3, 2015

PloverWing said:
Public schools, I assume, vary widely, and my experience with our local public schools may well be different from 4th Watch's experience with the public schools in Idaho. Still, I feel obliged to speak up, since my experience here has been mostly very positive.

I live in a small town (about 20,000) in New Jersey, and our local school system is correspondingly small but not too small, about 1700 students for preK-12. This is big enough to have AP classes and extracurriculars, but small enough that students don't get lost in the crowd. Sure, there have been some mediocre teachers and some personality clashes; but there have also been gifted, skilled teachers who have educated my children better than I ever could. My degrees are in STEM fields, so while I could have homeschooled my children in math, I couldn't have taught them English literature or history or violin the way their high school teachers have done.

The school, like our town, has students from multiple ethnic and religious backgrounds, and it makes a conscious effort to be respectful of that variety of cultures and beliefs. My kids report that they have had interesting, intelligent conversations about religion with their classmates who are Catholic, conservative Protestant, liberal Protestant, atheist, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Sikh. I'm glad they've had that opportunity. I'm glad the students learn from each other, and challenge each other to think about what they believe and why.

Addressing some of the specifics in the original post: I'm very happy with the sex education program here, which gets pretty explicit about subjects like contraception by the high school grades. We've talked openly with our kids about sex, but sometimes it's hard to talk to your parents about personal stuff when you're 14 or 15. The teachers belong to a union; the union fights for things like decent pay, good health care, and maternity/parental leave -- I think the teachers ought to get all of those things.

My one reservation about the (American) public schools is that they cannot teach Bible and Christian theology as a school subject -- for a good reason, of course, but I can see why parents would want to choose a private school or homeschool to have more freedom to teach religion as part of the curriculum.

With that said, I disagree with the call to remove all Christian students from the public schools. If your local public school is academically strong, properly funded, and respectful toward the students' religions (including Christianity), a public school can be an excellent choice.

I agree! Like I said before I LOVE my school. It's been in newspapers and magazines because it's one of the best in the whole country. I think it's silly to judge all public schools by a few. I think they can be great.

joshua 1 9 · Dec 10, 2015

BobRyan said:
to make sure they endorse same sex marriage or else are condemned in school.

You can not endorse something that does not exist. They consider Civil union and Domestic partnerships to be a second-class status and they desire the full measure of respect, clarity, security and responsibilities of marriage itself. They only deceive themselves because they exchange the natural for the unnatural. Marriage is a union between two different sexes and some consider procreation the ultimate objective. God said to be fruitful, multiply and fill the earth. In Chinese culture you have male and female: yin and yang, the two join or blend to become one. You can not have yin and yin or yang and yang. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve. It takes a male and a female to balance each other out. Yin and Yang describes how opposite or contrary forces are actually complement each other. They show that fire and water, light and dark, expanding and contracting. This is the basis of Chinese science, medicine leading to health, wealth and prosperity. Peace, harmony and serenity are obtained through blending what seems to be opposing forces. So we are to press on to be perfect and we are to pursuit perfection. Even as the universe is drifting apart it is God's plan to bring it all back together again. So we can rejoin or reunite what has been fragmented. Electromagnetic Magnetic poles universally attract their opposites and repel their likes. This remains uncharged from the beginning. You can take a rock anywhere on earth but you will not change it's magnetic poles, they remain the same no matter where you go on the earth. That is why you can use a compass as a guiding force to navigate your way.

Time to pull the kids from public schools

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