This should end the discussion about easy grace and OSAS!

-57 said:

Actually God came to you. Chose you.
What makes you seem so special that you had the ability to choose Jesus as your savior?

Click to expand...

Why would anyone think that it takes some special ability to believe in Christ? God made a promise, which is eternal life. 1 Jn 2:25 - This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

How much "ability" does it take to believe what God promises? Anyone with an intact intellect is able to believe that. Yet, many do not believe that.

nobdysfool said:

Because God is not obligated to regenerate even one person. Whom He does regenerate are those whom He ordained to salvation

Click to expand...

I'd love to see any verse that teaches this.

FreeGrace2 said:

Why would anyone think that it takes some special ability to believe in Christ? God made a promise, which is eternal life. 1 Jn 2:25 - This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

How much "ability" does it take to believe what God promises? Anyone with an intact intellect is able to believe that. Yet, many do not believe that.

Click to expand...

It doesn't take special ability, it takes ability, something that the heathen (all unbelievers) do not possess. Unless God opens their heart (via regeneration), they simply will not believe. And that kind of faith is not intellectual ability, it is spiritual ability, which those who are dead in their sins do not have.

FreeGrace2 said:

I'd love to see any verse that teaches this.

Click to expand...

You've been shown, many times.

nobdysfool said:

It doesn't take special ability, it takes ability, something that the heathen (all unbelievers) do not possess. Unless God opens their heart (via regeneration), they simply will not believe. And that kind of faith is not intellectual ability, it is spiritual ability, which those who are dead in their sins do not have.

Click to expand...

Exactly true,
1 Corinthians 2
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

I sid this:
"Why would anyone think that it takes some special ability to believe in Christ? God made a promise, which is eternal life. 1 Jn 2:25 - This is the promise which He Himself made to us: eternal life.

How much "ability" does it take to believe what God promises? Anyone with an intact intellect is able to believe that. Yet, many do not believe that."

nobdysfool said:

It doesn't take special ability, it takes ability, something that the heathen (all unbelievers) do not possess.

Click to expand...

Where does the Bible say that all unbelievers do not possess the ability to believe? If that were true, then Paul's answer to the jailer who asked specifically what he MUST DO to be saved was phony.

In that case, he should have said, "There is nothing you can do. You will be saved ONLY IF God chose you to be."

Now, wouldn't that be closer to your view of things?

Unless God opens their heart (via regeneration), they simply will not believe.

Click to expand...

Except the Bible doesn't teach that. Paul's answer to the jailer clearly refutes that.

And that kind of faith is not intellectual ability, it is spiritual ability, which those who are dead in their sins do not have.

Click to expand...

Where does the Bible teach about spiritual ability, and where does the Bible differentiate between the 2?

The Bible clearly teaches that anyone who believes will be saved. And that those who don't believe refuse to do so. Which reveals ability.

One cannot refuse to do what one cannot do.

I can "refuse" all day long to lift 1,000 lbs in a single lift, but that is just nuts. I cannot do it. So 'refusing' to do so is worse than just irrelevant. It's stupid.

Bottom line remains: Eph 2:5 equates being "made alive" with "having been saved". They are synonymous. And v.8 informs us WHEN one is saved (made alive): through faith. Faith precedes salvation and regeneration.

sdowney717 said:

Exactly true,
1 Corinthians 2
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Click to expand...

If one would only read v.14 in context, they would understand what it is speaking about. It certainly is not speaking about the gospel, for many unbelievers do fully understand the claims of the gospel, yet reject it.

v.6 speaks of a "message for the mature". This refers to advanced doctrines, not the gospel. And v.10 speaks of "the deep things of God", again, a reference to advanced doctrines.

The gospel is THE most basic doctrine in the Bible. It is the foundation for all other doctrines. What the unbeliever cannot understand is advanced doctrines, like the Trinity, election, etc.

FreeGrace2 said:

I don't see any connection between my comment and your response. I noted from Scripture that salvation (being made alive) is through faith. Proving that faith (belief in the gospel) precedes regeneration. Which you've not refuted.

Click to expand...

It's been refuted several times by several people. You seem to be the sole survivor of your doctrine.

Just for the record, you must have been quite the dead soul. That is having the ability to be spiritually dead yet believe in the gospel....despite the verses that inform us it does't work that way.

...arn't you glad your belief in the order of salvation doesn't matter concerning out salvation?

FreeGrace2 said:

The action of believing is not a gift."

Click to expand...

God giving us the ability to believe is a gift. Believing is simply using the gift.

nobdysfool said:

Because God is not obligated to regenerate even one person. Whom He does regenerate are those whom He ordained to salvation, and foreknew (not what they would do, but who they would be). Tough as it may be to swallow, God predestined some to salvation, and did not predestine others to salvation. That is His right to do as Sovereign God. Why he did so that way has not been fully revealed to us (mankind). Every person plays a part in His Plan. Man is not and cannot thwart God's Plan and Purpose. It is all proceeding according to His Plan and Purpose.

Click to expand...

And this is EXACTLY why until the day that I pass from this earth I will say what a horrible doctrine Calvinism is.

-57 said:

It's been refuted several times by several people. You seem to be the sole survivor of your doctrine.

Just for the record, you must have been quite the dead soul. That is having the ability to be spiritually dead yet believe in the gospel....despite the verses that inform us it does't work that way.

...arn't you glad your belief in the order of salvation doesn't matter concerning out salvation?

Click to expand...

No I am here. She is not the sole survivor.

-57 said:

God giving us the ability to believe is a gift. Believing is simply using the gift.

Click to expand...

You should read what you write. It should be mandatory for participants of this thread.

-57 said:

That's not what I said. I said faith comes later as it is what is also given to us at the moment of regeneration.

...are you still denying faith is a gift from God?

Click to expand...

So what part of the Bible specifically talks about this regeneration process?

sdowney717 said:

Exactly true,
1 Corinthians 2
13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Click to expand...

This is about those who are unsaved, not understanding the spiritual truths in the Bible.

This is not a verse that proves your theory. Sorry, try again.

ZacharyB said:

This always is FG2's response to Scripture verses he just can't handle.
Believe me guys, you're wasting your time showing him Scriptures!

Click to expand...

It would help if you guys made your case using verses in context.

Maybe the problem is that you have not proven your case? I'm not seeing it either.

-57 said:

It's been refuted several times by several people. You seem to be the sole survivor of your doctrine.

Just for the record, you must have been quite the dead soul. That is having the ability to be spiritually dead yet believe in the gospel....despite the verses that inform us it does't work that way.

...arn't you glad your belief in the order of salvation doesn't matter concerning out salvation?

Click to expand...

He is by far the sole survivor of the doctrine outlined in the Bible. Just he is doing a good enough job proving what the Bible clearly states which is not what the Calvinist doctrine of election teaches. So no one else has needed to join in

So put away the ad hominem.

ZacharyB said:

Don't know if you're talking to me or not.
IMO, cases don't need to be proven!
Either a guy believes a Scripture verse, or he doesn't
(in the context of the entire NT, of course).
But, this often requires some spiritual discernment, revelation even.
Fleshly understanding just won't cut it.
IMO, any kind of a deep spiritual Truth only comes via spiritual revelation.

Click to expand...

I guess I'm still a little stuck on the title of this thread which promises some great truth that will end the discussion forever.

ZacharyB said:

Don't know if you're talking to me or not.
IMO, cases don't need to be proven!
Either a guy believes a Scripture verse, or he doesn't
(in the context of the entire NT, of course).
But, this often requires some spiritual discernment, revelation even.
Fleshly understanding just won't cut it.
IMO, any kind of a deep spiritual Truth only comes via spiritual revelation.

Click to expand...

Yea but Zach, we have shown you where what you believe the Bible to say does not match up with what we think it says..and we use other verses to explain and support our position. You have not. You have done nothing but regurgitate the same verses over and over again. You have not explained to us how you feel those verses mean what you claim they mean, we obviously get a different meaning out of those same verses and have shown you that.

So if you can expand upon what you have posted before and provide further insight into that, then it would be helpful. Ad hominem attacks about us not being spiritual and such is not Christlike and not what the Bible teaches how we should act.