Is Satan the cause of all evil

For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. -- The Apostle Paul

fatboys said:

I was wondering what you thought of evil and the source of evil. Is there a Satan that causes all or a big part of it or is there another answer for evil. How do the different religions explain where it comes from.

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Yes Satan is real, no he is not the cause of or source of all evil, or evil at all.

The devil is evil, in the same way that Adolf Hitler was evil. Creatures that do evil things.

There is no source of evil, at least at an ontological level because evil has no ontology. Evil is the perversion, the corruption, or the inversion of what is good. In the same way that darkness isn't a "thing", but is instead the absence of or deprivation of light; so is evil the absence or the deprivation of good.

There is evil in the world because people do evil things. We are responsible for sufferings and evils perpetuated by ourselves against our fellow creatures.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

Yes Satan is real, no he is not the cause of or source of all evil, or evil at all.

The devil is evil, in the same way that Adolf Hitler was evil. Creatures that do evil things.

There is no source of evil, at least at an ontological level because evil has no ontology. Evil is the perversion, the corruption, or the inversion of what is good. In the same way that darkness isn't a "thing", but is instead the absence of or deprivation of light; so is evil the absence or the deprivation of good.

There is evil in the world because people do evil things. We are responsible for sufferings and evils perpetuated by ourselves against our fellow creatures.

-CryptoLutheran

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I'm curious because you're so good with these things: If humans do evil things, what role exactly does Satan play?

com7fy8 said:

So, as we get correction and curing of His love, we are more and more living in God's love, instead of living in sin. It is like how a child, at first when a baby, can be much more about getting what he or she wants or needs for one's own self. But with growing and having good love example people to relate with, the child can become mature in how to relate in love. So, the child might have started being pretty much selfish, but the child does not stay that way.

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awitch said:

So it's a progression? New Christians start out in union with Satan and then slowly over time, wander away the longer they stay Christians...So how long does that process take?

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Not quite "in union with Satan" > if a person gets started with Jesus, now the person has started to be in union with Jesus >

"But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him." (1 Corinthians 6:17)

But, "you would wonder", often enough, who a "Christian" is really in union with. In my case, for a while there were times I was quite concerned with how I was supposed to be, in comparison with all the Bible says God succeeds at doing with His children. What the Bible says God does was not "fitting" with how I might describe my experience. But I kept trusting God to correct me . . . when I had the encouragement and sense to do so. And now after decades of processing and "correctional custody", I am more quiet and peaceful and more into compassion for people with problems, versus analyzing and criticizing them . . . though I still need plenty more correction.

And I experience God personally guiding me, and His guiding has to do with loving any and all people, though I need to know right from wrong so I don't do wrong stuff or mislead others.

com7fy8 said:

And there is the evil of being weak enough so evil people can control us with their fear. In sin ones can be controlled by fear. But if we become real and strong in God's love, we have His almighty immunity against how fear would effect and control us >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (1 John 4:18)

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awitch said:

I find this highly amusing because so many Christians who lean to the right are constantly in fear of immigration, science, Muslims, gays, atheists, minorities, democrats...

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Well, it can be easy to see how someone else is wrong. Wrong people can see how each other are wrong. Talking about the cause of evil, by the way, then . . . part of why we have evil is because wrong people fight one another, instead of each one getting how our Heavenly Father is able to correct us > Hebrews 12:4-11 > the Bible says God judges His own children "first" >

"For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)

So, if the right ones get judged "first", I find it "interesting" how some number of Bible claiming people are so busy with judging ones other than themselves first. So, this, of course, helps to keep evil going and keep evil able to effect people.

About fear, though > yes, there can be people who are afraid of gays and Muslims and others; but others are simply saying they are wrong > they are not afraid of them; they don't believe they are right. But, like I say, any wrong person can be "very good" at pointing out my faults, but they do not help me to get real correction with God. And without real deep correction of His love's perfection, we stay weak enough so evil can get the better of us, spiritually and emotionally > and this includes how we can even dread things which are good . . . like how Adam and Eve would worry about being naked, once they had gotten the evil spirit of disobedience messing how they saw things.

Now, for another example, we see people calling rain "bad", when we need rain for life on this planet. People even have down days when it is raining, because they have been messed into feeling lousy about rain. They are committed to this; so for the rest of their lives they could reap all that dismal time, when instead they could be appreciating God's nature while it is raining, and possibly enjoying peace and quiet. So, there is a spirit of evil which has really messed people up, so they even call a life-needed good thing "bad weather" and ones even seem to fear getting hit by a raindrop!!

So, certain self-righteous Bible claimers are not the only ones who have a fear problem.

com7fy8 said:

So, it is good to know that not all people are still in sin, and God's love has been able to deliver us "from the power of Satan to God" (Acts 26:18).

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awitch said:

At what point did you know you were not still in sin?

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When I trusted in Jesus > the Bible says we are no longer in Satan's kingdom. But in actual experience, plenty of times I have not been convinced, because of how I could get messy emotionally and with lust stuff which was degrading me from how I could be sweetly soothed and pleasant in experiencing God's love (Romans 5:5). Because I had sampled how God's love is, I could get very "homesick" when I got into criticizing and paranoid stuff and lust stuff and unforgiveness. But before I was with Jesus, I did not have any real love to compare with that stuff.

I experience not being in sin, as I get more and more correction and get more and more into caring about people and having compassion for wrong people (Hebrews 5:2). And now I find I am more into submitting to God in His peace > Colossians 3:15 < this is included in the basic calling of a Christian. Part of the cause of evil in this world is how Bible claiming people do not submit to how our Father would rule them in His own peace. There are church culture people and Bible claimers who take it on themselves to try to do what they suppose is Christian . . . or to put on the show they think others are looking for; and so they stay weak so they can keep on suffering the evil of how their relating and emotions can get messed and they can stay hurt. Only in God's peace can we have protection > Philippians 4:4-7 < this shows us that God's peace with almighty power will "guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus" . . . if and while we obey how He wants us to pray.

But we can depend on ourselves, and so we fail. And certain church culture and Bible claiming people can make it seem like God is distant and not personal with His people. And so ones tend to depend on their own ability to discipline themselves, including to only copy-cat others, and so they do not have the quality and power of God's peace ruling in us . . . personally, in each one's heart. People don't get how God is personal; and so they miss out on being able to personally love without getting hurt and without trying to use people. And away from personal sharing with God in His love, anyone is weak enough to be messed with evil emotional and spiritual stuff, even while they may not cause the more obvious evil in this world. People get isolated with their idol of independence!!

Zoness said:

I'm curious because you're so good with these things: If humans do evil things, what role exactly does Satan play?

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In one sense it's like asking what role Hitler played. In the most basic sense Satan was one of the angels that rebelled. The details aren't known, at least biblically speaking, because the Bible itself gives remarkably little information; though enough that to suggest that some angels fell.

In Greek they are called διάβολοι (diaboloi) or "devils" meaning "accusers", and also δαιμόνια (daimonia) or "demons" which in Greek thought were a kind of spirit or presence, a haunting presence--whether good, evil, or neither. Christians used the term "demon" to exclusively mean an evil presence or an evil spirit, which was identified with a devil, a servant of Satan, the chief of the devils and hence "the devil". In Hebrew ha-shaytan means "the accuser" which is largely synonymous with the Greek diabolos.

In the Old Testament there is an exceptionally vague angelogy, and arguably little-to-no demonology. "the satan" is only mentioned a couple times, most famously in Job who is present with the angels and who accuses Job and suggests that Job is only faithful because Job's living the good life, which leads to the entire story of Job. Modern Judaism doesn't attach a malicious intent behind the satan, but conceives of it as serving an important role in the angelic court--that of the accuser which is not an evil role, but a necessary one.

However, non-biblical second temple literature is far more complex about the topic. For example in Enoch the chief of the fallen angels is called Satariel, and in 2nd Enoch Sataniel. In the Book of Jubilees there is a figure named Mastema (meaning "Hostility" or "Hatred"). Such literature is replete with references to good and evil angels. And the concept of fallen angels is almost certainly an idea that Christian inherited from ideas present in 2nd Temple Judaism but which did not survive in Rabbinic Judaism.

I mentioned earlier that the Bible itself says little, though that depends largely on whether one has a Bible sans Deuterocanonicals or a Bible with the Deuterocanonicals. Namely:

"But by the envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are allied with him experience it." - Wisdom 2:24

This is also an early example of identifying the serpent in Eden with the devil. Something Christians simply took for granted. Another example of this can be seen in the Life of Adam and Eve, which specifically states that the devil took the form of a serpent to tempt and trick Eve, and later comes back to try and do the same after the expulsion from Paradise.

The closest we're going to really come to a "role", I think, is that of one who is hostile toward God and desires to tempt and harass God's people. The devils as agents of temptation, as encouraging men to indulge their selfish desires, is present in the New Testament; and this is largely how devils are seen throughout most of Christian history. Seeking to cause men to doubt God's promises, to turn men away from God, and to encourage men to sin. Not cause men to sin, but to tempt and encourage men to sin. There's no room for "the devil made me do it", we are always responsible for our own actions because we are the ones who do it, regardless if someone else encourages us to do ill--whether human or devil--it is our fault and our responsibility for when we fail and fumble.

But then, of course, there's Luther's comment that he would often chase the devil away with a fart.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis said:

"But by the envy of the devil, death entered the world, and they who are allied with him experience it." - Wisdom 2:24

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There is an interesting Qur'anic story about the fall of Satan. When God created Adam He ordered the angels to bow down before him (Adam.) Satan refused saying, "I am of pure fire, while Adam is of the dust." It was for that reason that God threw Satan down and why Satan has so much antipathy towards humanity. Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law is said to have preached a sermon based on this Qur'anic story and concluded by saying Satan's sin was mutassub, meaning prejudice.

smaneck said:

There is an interesting Qur'anic story about the fall of Satan. When God created Adam He ordered the angels to bow down before him (Adam.) Satan refused saying, "I am of pure fire, while Adam is of the dust." It was for that reason that God threw Satan down and why Satan has so much antipathy towards humanity. Ali, Muhammad's son-in-law is said to have preached a sermon based on this Qur'anic story and concluded by saying Satan's sin was mutassub, meaning prejudice.

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The Yazidi faith puts a very interesting spin on this tale:

Like in the Qur'an, the One God commands all other creatures to bow down before Man, but the archangel Melek Taus (the Peacock Angel) refuses to do so. When asked why, he answers: "Such honour only belongs to the One, not to one of His creatures."
Thus, the archangel passed the test that all others had failed.

Melek Taus also became a quasi-demiurgic figure at one point, considering himself a creator in his own right before realizing that his deeds always culminated in error - making him cry a Deluge of tears that drowned his mistakes.

Sadly (but unsurprisingly), this particular myth gave the Yazidis the reputation of being "devil worshippers".

In light of how the Abrahamic religions tend to retroactively interpret their creation myths, it seems to me that (in true authoritarian fashion) they define free will and disobedience as the greatest possible evil. (An impression that is further exacerbated by the atrocious moral lesson underlying Abraham's sacrifice.)

See also:

Jane_the_Bane said:

In light of how the Abrahamic religions tend to retroactively interpret their creation myths, it seems to me that (in true authoritarian fashion) they define free will and disobedience as the greatest possible evil. (An impression that is further exacerbated by the atrocious moral lesson underlying Abraham's sacrifice.)

See also:

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Whom did exactly Abraham sacrifice? As a member of an "Abrahamic" religion, I can assure you that I don't consider free will evil. I consider it the greatest gift.

danny ski said:

Whom did exactly Abraham sacrifice?

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Not for lack of trying.
He's celebrated for his willingness to see it through, instead of flat-out refusing such a horrible command.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Not for lack of trying.
He's celebrated for his willingness to see it through, instead of flat-out refusing such a horrible command.

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We don't have a black and white approach to the story of Abraham. We commend Abraham for obedience and Gd for teaching us a lesson that human sacrifice is unacceptable and limits of obedience. There was never any doubt that Isaac would not survive, if you read the preceding chapters carefully. The story of Abraham is a bit more nuanced than mere repeating of highlights. As an aside. Gd never spoke to Abraham again after this incident.

Jane_the_Bane said:

Not for lack of trying.
He's celebrated for his willingness to see it through, instead of flat-out refusing such a horrible command.

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He isn't universally celebrated. There is a school of thought that Abraham messed up by not refusing or questioning. I happen to agree with that line of thinking. He was willing to question HaShem when it came to complete strangers being destroyed in a city but unwilling to question when it came to killing his son.

drstevej said:

For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. -- The Apostle Paul

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For one, you'd have to properly cite your source, since saying "The Apostle Paul" does nothing to enlighten me.

Two, money appears to be a root, not the root, to all sorts of evil, not Evil itself. Money can cause evil things but it is not the primary source.

So... I wonder why you bothered posting this at all. It's a bit strange without any further elaboration. You've made no point or argument whatsoever, in my mind.

Jane_the_Bane said:

In light of how the Abrahamic religions tend to retroactively interpret their creation myths, it seems to me that (in true authoritarian fashion) they define free will and disobedience as the greatest possible evil. (An impression that is further exacerbated by the atrocious moral lesson underlying Abraham's sacrifice.)

See also:

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I absolutely loathe this line of thinking. That is, that free will is some evil thing. Didn't their God allow free will in the first place?

LoAmmi said:

He isn't universally celebrated. There is a school of thought that Abraham messed up by not refusing or questioning. I happen to agree with that line of thinking. He was willing to question HaShem when it came to complete strangers being destroyed in a city but unwilling to question when it came to killing his son.

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I'm of the opinion that Abraham saw right through this test and was so sure he would not have to kill his son that he took it right to the edge.

Genesis 22:5 states:

He {Abraham}said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”

He knew Isaac was the promised seed and that either God would change the command or raise his son from the dead.

see Hebrews 11

17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

fatboys said:

I was wondering what you thought of evil and the source of evil. Is there a Satan that causes all or a big part of it or is there another answer for evil. How do the different religions explain where it comes from.

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the "darkness" is the primary cause and source of (the) evil by its main (inanimate) manifestations: satan, beast, death, hell, etc., and not without its system of spiritual iniquity/lawlessness/wickedness and human(666) religion/spirituality

Blessings

fatboys said:

I was wondering what you thought of evil and the source of evil. Is there a Satan that causes all or a big part of it or is there another answer for evil. How do the different religions explain where it comes from.

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Evil is more the absence of good and symbolic of man's lower nature...

"....it is possible that one thing in relation to another may be evil, and at the same time within the limits of its proper being it may not be evil. Then it is proved that there is no evil in existence; all that God created He created good. This evil is nothingness; so death is the absence of life. When man no longer receives life, he dies. Darkness is the absence of light: when there is no light, there is darkness. Light is an existing thing, but darkness is nonexistent."

(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 261)



"The reality underlying this question is that the evil spirit, Satan or whatever is interpreted as evil, refers to the lower nature in man. This baser nature is symbolized in various ways. ... God has never created an evil spirit; all such ideas and nomenclature are symbols expressing the mere human or earthly nature of man. It is an essential condition of the soil of earth that thorns, weeds and fruitless trees may grow from it. Relatively speaking, this is evil; it is simply the lower state and baser product of nature."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Foundations of World Unity, p. 77

fatboys said:

I was wondering what you thought of evil and the source of evil. Is there a Satan that causes all or a big part of it or is there another answer for evil. How do the different religions explain where it comes from.

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Maybe we should take the bull by the horns,

only man has been endowed with the inclination for both good and bad.

We are born with it, why else would we have been given free choice to choose either?

An angel has no evil inclination therefore it has no free choice.

Without the Satan who is also the Angel of Death, there would be not have been passover.

For those who had stroked blood of a lamb on their doorposts and overbeam,
the Angel of death passed over,
at that time a lamb was a god for the Egyptians.

How can there be repentence if we can shift the blame?