LDS LDS: Heavenly Mother, an Awkward Doctrine ???

drstevej · Nov 23, 2015

fatboys said:
We don't know enough of her but we do know that if she is heavenly mother she would be perfect

Perfect yet not worthy of worship.
Is Heavenly Father "more" perfect and therefore worship worthy?

You do worship Jesus, do you not?

Hammster · Nov 23, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
That article has all the references and is an official church publication.

If you want a scholarly article, there's a BYU publication entitled "A Mother There" which does a systematic search LDS literature. (Note: BYU publications are not official LDS church statements).

How can there be no concrete records that Joseph Smith ever taught about her, yet there be an official position based on hearsay of what he said?

drstevej · Nov 23, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
That article has all the references and is an official church publication.

If you want a scholarly article, there's a BYU publication entitled "A Mother There" which does a systematic search LDS literature. (Note: BYU publications are not official LDS church statements).

Googled it. Here is the first paragraph

Penned in 1845 by Sister Eliza R. Snow (who would later serve as the
Relief Society general president from December 18, 1867–December 5,
1887), these lines from our beloved hymn “O My Father” are perhaps the
best-known reference in Latter-day Saint literature to a Mother in Heaven.
Written and published within months of Joseph Smith’s death, these and
other lines give considerable evidence that the Prophet taught of a Mother
in Heaven, even if he did so only implicitly2 or restrictively to certain lim-
ited audiences

That's a presumptive start. Is this BYU scholarship?

Jane_Doe · Nov 23, 2015

Hammster said:
How can there be no concrete records that Joseph Smith ever taught about her, yet there be an official position based on hearsay of what he said?

There are many things in Mormonism that are not "thus saith Joseph Smith".... it's not that shocking really...

ChetSinger · Nov 23, 2015

While I'm no expert on LDS theology, it seems to me that the Mormon God requires a wife, since he is a forerunner of today's Mormons who hope to repeat what he did and who themselves have wives. I mean, just as today's Mormon men hope to have celestial marriages and become gods, isn't that exactly what the Mormon God is supposed to already have done?

I don't see "God's wife" anywhere in the scriptures, Judaism, or Christianity (aside from the church being the bride of Christ). But I think in Mormonism such a figure is implicitly necessary.

Hammster · Nov 23, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
There are many things in Mormonism that are not "thus saith Joseph Smith".... it's not that shocking really...

So what is this doctrine based on?

drstevej · Nov 24, 2015

"thus reasoned and sang Eliza Snow" seems to be the answer.

fatboys · Nov 24, 2015

Hammster said:
So what is this doctrine based on?

Logic. We are married for eternity. We are to become like the Father. If both my wife and I remain true and faithful we will return to God. If we continue to progress we will be eligible for the highest of Gods mansions r kingdoms where we have the opportunity to inherit all the Father has and become like him. And we will become kings and queens unto the God of the most high.

drstevej · Nov 24, 2015

fatboys said:
Logic. We are married for eternity. We are to become like the Father. If both my wife and I remain true and faithful we will return to God. If we continue to progress we will be eligible for the highest of Gods mansions r kingdoms where we have the opportunity to inherit all the Father has and become like him. And we will become kings and queens unto the God of the most high.

WOW, this is one of your most direct statements of your expectations. So logic is a channel of revelation? No burning bosom confirmation, just logic?

Would folks worship you both? or just you? or neither?

Hammster · Nov 24, 2015

fatboys said:
Logic. We are married for eternity. We are to become like the Father. If both my wife and I remain true and faithful we will return to God. If we continue to progress we will be eligible for the highest of Gods mansions r kingdoms where we have the opportunity to inherit all the Father has and become like him. And we will become kings and queens unto the God of the most high.

What you mean is that it conforms with your narrative. You start with one idea that has no support and work backwards to come up with another that fits the first.

fatboys · Nov 24, 2015

drstevej said:
WOW, this is one of your most direct statements of your expectations. So logic is a channel of revelation? No burning bosom confirmation, just logic?

Would folks worship you both? or just you? or neither?

You know you just want me to say something to trip myself up. That's okay. I don't know how else to explain it to you and then you talk about burning in the bosom. IT IS NOT DOCTRINE ABOUT OUR HEAVENLY MOTHER. HAVE INHAD A BURNING IN MY BOSOM ABOUT AN HEAVENLY MOTHER? No. I haven't asked. It is not necessary for me to know. God has restored back to the earth all that is necessary for my salvation. Knowing that heavenly mother exist is not one of truths necessary for my salvation. Can you understand this and move on.

drstevej · Nov 24, 2015

You are welcome to move on if you wish but I have more questions about Heavenly Mother so I'll stick around.

Jane_Doe · Nov 24, 2015

Never mind

Hammster · Nov 24, 2015

Jane_Doe said:
Never mind

I am. But you keep leaving the discussion only to return as if you've given some.

drstevej · Nov 24, 2015

Subsequent Church leaders have affirmed the existence of a Mother in Heaven. In 1909, the First Presidency taught that “all men and women are in the similitude of the universal Father and Mother, and are literally the sons and daughters of Deity.”

https://www.lds.org/topics/mother-in-heaven?lang=eng
cites: “The Origin of Man,” Improvement Era 13, no. 1 (Nov. 1909): 78

This: "are literally the sons and daughters of Deity"

If there is only one Heavenly Mother, how many pregnancies does it take to birth all of humanity?

fatboys · Nov 24, 2015

drstevej said:
You are welcome to move on if you wish but I have more questions about Heavenly Mother so I'll stick around.

All your doing is throwing mud and hoping something will stick we have told you and explained all there is to know

drstevej · Nov 24, 2015

This is a debate forum. You can participate or not. If Eliza Snow can reason to Heavenly Mother asking questions that logically follow seems good.

In the heav'ns are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare!
Truth is reason; truth eternal
Tells me I've a mother there.

Hammster · Nov 24, 2015

I've not thrown mud. I've just asked for support for the view. It has not yet been given.

ToBeLoved · Nov 24, 2015

fatboys said:
Logic. We are married for eternity. We are to become like the Father. If both my wife and I remain true and faithful we will return to God. If we continue to progress we will be eligible for the highest of Gods mansions r kingdoms where we have the opportunity to inherit all the Father has and become like him. And we will become kings and queens unto the God of the most high.

Did you ever think that if everyone is a king or queen in heaven, then that's not that big of a deal.

fatboys · Nov 24, 2015

ToBeLoved said:
Did you ever think that if everyone is a king or queen in heaven, then that's not that big of a deal.

Not everyone will be. Only those that commit to promises God has asked us to commit to. If we do and follow the best we can the atonement will make up the difference by paying for errors we have made and can not pay for our selves.

LDS LDS: Heavenly Mother, an Awkward Doctrine ???

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Psalm 144:1

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Senior Veteran

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Psalm 144:1

Senior Veteran

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Well-Known Member

Psalm 144:1

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Senior Veteran

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Psalm 144:1

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

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