Salvation Through Sanctification

Steeno7

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There are days I do not sin those types of sins that lead unto spiritual death (Like hate, lying, sexual immorality, etc.). But my life is not the standard. So whether I obey or not obey does not change what is in God's Word. 1 Peter 4:1 says they that have suffered in the flesh have ceased (stopped) from sin. Galatians 5:24 says they that are Christ's have ceased from sin. David says that he hid His Word (i.e. God's Word) in his heart so that he may not sin against the LORD. Jesus told the woman caught in the act of adultery to: "sin no more." If Jesus did not really mean what he said to this woman, then he would have been lying. In John 8, Jesus also said, "he that sins is a slave to sin." Jesus said this to the Pharisees and he said it in a negative way towards them. For Paul essentially says, any man who teaches contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). If a person says Godliness is not necessary for salvation, then they are teaching another doctrine. For Jesus's very own words taught Godliness. For if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven by the Father is what Jesus said (Matthew 6:15). Do you believe you can not forgive die in such a state of unforgiveness and be forgiven? If so, then you would be going against the very words our Lord Jesus Christ.

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Well that's a very convenient cheap type of law you have going there. And you also are bringing old covenant precepts and principles over into the new covenant. Those are both illegitimate activities.

I know from you being all over the Internet for years preaching the same message of condemnation that you do not take correction. But, every now and then, it's fun to poke a few holes in your belief system for others to see.
 
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Steeno7

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I ran across an article recently that talks about how the Bible uses salvation, redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification in the past, present, and future tense. You might find it relevant:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

I understand sanctification in the present tense as the process of being saved from sinning, from not doing good works, or from disobeying God's law.

That would be a wrong definition of sanctification.
 
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I ran across an article recently that talks about how the Bible uses salvation, redemption, forgiveness, sanctification, and justification in the past, present, and future tense. You might find it relevant:

http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PASTPRES.htm

I understand sanctification in the present tense as the process of being saved from sinning, from not doing good works, or from disobeying God's law.

Good stuff in that article about Justification. But I disagree about the section on forgiveness, though. Forgiveness is not just a past event, but it is also a present reality that we have to take hold of, as well. How so? 1 John 1:9 says IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is then followed by John telling the brethren to "sin not." But if they do sin, they have an advocate named Jesus Christ (i.e. present tense). Even David confessed his sin to the LORD and cried out to God not to take His Holy Spirit from Him (Psalm 51). David was obviously in favor with God before his confession because He took down Goliath by the power of God when he was a child. But his acts of adultery and murder put at jeopardy his good standing with God whereby He had to confess and forsake his sins in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). In fact, we know forgiveness must involve a present tense reality for our lives (or we will not be forgiven). In Matthew 6:15, Jesus says he that does not forgive will not be forgiven by the Father. Forgiveness is important, because without it, we are not saved.


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As for Redemption being a present tense reality:

Scripture says,

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." (Ephesians 1:7).

So we have redemption thru his blood. But how do we make sure the blood is constantly being applied to us? Is it a one time past event in us accepting Christ? No. Not according to Scripture.

1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

"Walking in the light" is a present tense reality that has to take place for us in order for the blood to continue to cleanse us of all sin.

And "walking in the light" is in reference to keeping His commandments (See 1 John 2:3-4 which parallels 1 John 1:6-7).

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Soyeong

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Good stuff in that article about Justification. But I disagree about the section on forgiveness, though. Forgiveness is not just a past event, but it is also a present reality that we have to take hold of, as well. How so? 1 John 1:9 says IF we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. This is then followed by John telling the brethren to "sin not." But if they do sin, they have an advocate named Jesus Christ (i.e. present tense). Even David confessed his sin to the LORD and cried out to God not to take His Holy Spirit from Him (Psalm 51). David was obviously in favor with God before his confession because He took down Goliath by the power of God when he was a child. But his acts of adultery and murder put at jeopardy his good standing with God whereby He had to confess and forsake his sins in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). In fact, we know forgiveness must involve a present tense reality for our lives (or we will not be forgiven). In Matthew 6:15, Jesus says he that does not forgive will not be forgiven by the Father. Forgiveness is important, because without it, we are not saved.


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I'm glad you liked it. The article quotes 1 John 1:9 and says that there a present aspect of forgiveness, so I'm not sure where your disagreement is.
 
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John Robie

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As for Redemption being a present tense reality:

Scripture says,

"In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." (Ephesians 1:7).

So we have redemption thru his blood. But how do we make sure the blood is constantly being applied to us? Is it a one time past event in us accepting Christ? No. Not according to Scripture.

1 John 1:7 says,

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

Walking in the light is in reference to keeping His commandments (See 1 John 2:3-4 which parallels 1 John 1:6-7).

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Where are the verses that say we lose our redemption?
 
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Well that's a very convenient cheap type of law you have going there. And you also are bringing old covenant precepts and principles over into the new covenant. Those are both illegitimate activities.

I know from you being all over the Internet for years preaching the same message of condemnation that you do not take correction. But, every now and then, it's fun to poke a few holes in your belief system for others to see.

First, I didnt' write the Bible. God did. So if you do not like what it says, take it up with Him.

Second, Christians obey the Commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. Only the Moral Law has been carried over. For the word "Law" in the Bible is in reference to the Law of Moses and it is not in reference to all forms of laws or commands in the Bible. In other words, Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Meaning, Christ nailed to the cross the ceremonial and judicial laws in the Law of Moses to the cross. That does not mean God wants us to be anarchists or lawless individuals. The New Testament is filled with many Commands that we have to obey. For if a believer does not obey the Commands in the New Covenant, then there is great peril to their very souls. For example: Jesus said if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).

Third, as for your "poking holes in what I believe": Well, I have not really seen you done that yet with Scripture. But you are more than welcome to make another attempt if you like. For what New Testament Commands do you think a believer can disobey with the thinking they will be saved?

Here is a long list of New Testament Commands:

https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/1050-new-testament-commands

Please take note that there are some commands that I think are not salvation issues. Like Baptism for example. I do not think such a command relates to one's salvation. Oh, and yes. I have been baptized (Just in case anyone was wondering).

In any event, may God bless you.
For I am wishing nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.


...
 
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ZacharyB

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Do you believe you can die unrepentant sin like murder, hate, adultery, theft, idolatry, etc. and still make it into Heaven? ...
YUP, he does ... he's a proud grace-only guy!
And there are many blind ones here just like him.
Birds of a feather stick together.
Maybe they'd like to be tarred-and-feathered?
 
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Where are the verses that say we lose our redemption?

The Bible doesn't use words that you would prefer it to use. But the Bible is all too clear that one can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away of their own free will choice after having received it). For why would Jesus tell believers to forgive or they will not be forgiven? Why are there names blotted out of the book of life? Why does there remain no more sacrifice for sins if we willfully sin?


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YUP, he does ... he's a proud grace-only guy!
And there are many blind ones here just like him.
Birds of a feather stick together.
Maybe they'd like to be tar-and-feathered?

I know it is difficult not to poke fun. There are times I want to do so. But I stop myself. For we have to speak in love towards them with God's Word, my friend. It is the only way we can reach them.

....
 
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ZacharyB

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But the Bible is all too clear that one can forfeit their salvation
(i.e. they can willingly throw it away of their own free will choice
after having received it).
For why would Jesus tell believers to forgive or they will not be forgiven?
Why are there names blotted out of the book of life?
Why does there remain no more sacrifice for sins if we willfully sin?
Please keep going ... there are many pages left to go!
But, it will make most here very sick, if you do.
 
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I'm glad you liked it. The article quotes 1 John 1:9 and says that there a present aspect of forgiveness, so I'm not sure where your disagreement is.

My apologies. I must have missed that part.

Grace, love, and peace be unto you, my friend.


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Soyeong

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First, I didnt' write the Bible. God did. So if you do not like what it says, take it up with Him.

Second, Christians obey the Commands in the New Testament and not the Old Testament. Only the Moral Law has been carried over. For the word "Law" in the Bible is in reference to the Law of Moses and it is not in reference to all forms of laws or commands in the Bible. In other words, Jesus nailed to the cross those ordinances that were against us. Meaning, Christ nailed to the cross the ceremonial and judicial laws in the Law of Moses to the cross. That does not mean God wants us to be anarchists or lawless individuals. The New Testament is filled with many Commands that we have to obey. For if a believer does not obey the Commands in the New Covenant, then there is great peril to their very souls. For example: Jesus said if we do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15).

Third, as for your "poking holes in what I believe": Well, I have not really seen you done that yet with Scripture. But you are more than welcome to make another attempt if you like.

In any event, may God bless you.
For I am wishing nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.


...

The commands in the NT are based on the commands in the OT. The Bible makes no distinctions about civil, ceremonial, moral or non-moral laws, but rather all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. What was nailed to crosses was the list of crimes that the person being executed had committed, not the law themselves. In other words, they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with Jesus paying the penalty for our sins, but does not fit at all with being redeemed from a set of holy, righteous, and good instructions. We have no need to be redeemed from that, but rather we were set free from sin so that we could be free to not sin, or in other words, free to obey God's law.
 
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ZacharyB

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I know it is difficult not to poke fun. There are times I want to do so. But I stop myself. For we have to speak in love towards them with God's Word, my friend. It is the only way we can reach them.
It's not we who can reach them ... that's the Holy Spirit's job.
Me, I just provide the Scriptures, which condemn their false doctrines.
And while I do, I throw in some humor to keep myself sane.
 
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The commands in the NT are based on the commands in the OT. The Bible makes no distinctions about civil, ceremonial, moral or non-moral laws, but rather all of God's laws are inherently moral laws. What was nailed to crosses was the list of crimes that the person being executed had committed, not the law themselves. In other words, they didn't have to legislate new laws every time someone was crucified. This fits perfectly with Jesus paying the penalty for our sins, but does not fit at all with being redeemed from a set of holy, righteous, and good instructions. We have no need to be redeemed from that, but rather we were set free from sin so that we could be free to not sin, or in other words, free to obey God's law.

Perhaps these two articles might help you to see where I am coming from.

https://www.gci.org/law/lawmoses

https://www.learnthebible.org/law-and-the-prophets.html


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It's not we who can reach them ... that's the Holy Spirit's job.
Me, I just provide the Scriptures, which condemn their false doctrines.
And while I do, I throw in some humor to keep myself sane.

We will be held accountable to God in how we treat others. For the way we speak can come across as unloving towards others even though that may not have been our intention. Oh, and yes. I agree. We just plant seeds, but it is God that gives the increase. But if the seed we plant is mingled with words that might appear hateful to another, then how can that seed take root?

We are to be at peace when others persecute us verbally. We are to rejoice when such a thing happens (See Matthew 5).


...
 
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John Robie

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The Bible doesn't use words that you would prefer it to use. But the Bible is all too clear that one can forfeit their salvation (i.e. they can willingly throw it away of their own free will choice after having received it). For why would Jesus tell believers to forgive or they will not be forgiven? Why are there names blotted out of the book of life? Why does there remain no more sacrifice for sins if we willfully sin?


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If we've be redeemed, who owns us?
 
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