The importance of checking your sources.

Status
Not open for further replies.

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
True, but none date at the time of Moses.
Which is when, by the way?

As I understand it, no one around here with a Ph.D. believes in the Bible's chronology.

They have Sumeria, Egypt, and China existing before the Flood.

So your point is ... well ... pending further clarification.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Yup.

Like Thalidomide being a prenatal wonder drug,

Yes, there are bad prescription drugs. Nevertheless, there is no archaeological evidence Hebrews in Egypt during the said time of Moses.

or Pluto being our 9th planet, or ...

Pluto doesn't fit the current description of what constitutes a planet, however, it does fit the description of a "minor planet". Sorry, facts are facts.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Yes, there are bad prescription drugs.
Riddle me this, Rick:

When is a "prenatal wonder drug" a "bad prescription drug"?

Answer: When it's Thalidomide.
RickG said:
Nevertheless, there is no archaeological evidence Hebrews in Egypt during the said time of Moses.
Which is when, please?

Can you give me a range of years?

Do you understand my question, sir?
RickG said:
Pluto doesn't fit the current description of what constitutes a planet,
Since when? 1930-2006? or 2006, ff?
RickG said:
... however, it does fit the description of a "minor planet".
Since when? since after a rigged vote?
RickG said:
Sorry, facts are facts.
Sorry facts are facts.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Which is when, by the way?

I don't have a PhD, but that is a fact whether you are willing to accept it or not. Compare the genealogies provided by Matthew and Luke. Whoops!

As I understand it, no one around here with a Ph.D. believes in the Bible's chronology.

They have Sumeria, Egypt, and China existing before the Flood.

The bible mentions China?

So your point is ... well ... pending further clarification.

Which will be supported. Validating sources and their content is important.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I don't have a PhD, but that is a fact whether you are willing to accept it or not. Compare the genealogies provided by Matthew and Luke. Whoops!
Okay, Rick.

Looks like I'm not going to get an answer from you.

So I'll let it go.

Is this indicative as to why our weather can't be predicted with pinpoint accuracy?
RickG said:
The bible mentions China?
The Bible mentions the pre-Chinese.

Genesis 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
True, but none date at the time of Moses.
Perhaps there is none that you are aware of. I hear this all the time, people say there is no evidence and they are just ignorant of the fact that there is a lot of evidence. This is a reflection of the times we live in and shows the apostasy. Before now the problem was more fraud then a lack of evidence. Although the Catholic church goes to great length to substantiate their relics to be sure they are real and not a counterfeit. Recently we had this with the James Ossuary where "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" is cut into one side of the box. The authenticity of the inscription was been challenged. The Israeli Antiquities Authority (IAA) determined in 2003 that the inscriptions were forged at a much later date.[5][6] In December 2004, Oded Golan was charged with 44 counts of forgery, fraud and deception, including forgery of the Ossuary inscription.

The time issue is a real problem with the flood. Many places in the middle east have had floods. The city of Ur where Abraham came from has a 10 foot thick layer of flood deposits. Where I live at has flood deposits up to 25 feet thick from the end of the last ice age. The problem is the dates do not always line up with the time of Noah's flood. But if you want flood deposits you can find evidence of flooding just about anywhere you go. Some areas have a major flood every 100 years, there are areas that have a major flood every 1000 years. So if people say there is no evidence of a flood then that is a lie. Everywhere you go you will find evidence of a flood. What is in dispute is the time of the flood and if that dates to Noah's flood or not.

Here on this forum when we were showing the evidence of man like foot prints along with dinosaur prints the natural response was to claim foul and to say they are a forgery. Which of course everyone believe even though there is a lack of verifiable evidence to that effect. That is the case with the Shroud of Turin. Even though the Shroud was made available for a complete scientific investigation the skeptics and scoffers do their best to dispute the results.

Bottom line: Even with the most iron clad rock solid evidence there are still people that will dispute the results. Or they will do as your attempting to do and claim there is no evidence when tons of evidence exists. So I do not know if this is ignorance or fraud to claim that there is no evidence.

Turin_shroud_positive_and_negative_displaying_original_color_information_708_x_465_pixels_94_KB.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,053
9,608
47
UK
✟1,147,495.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
Perhaps there is none that you are aware of. I hear this all the time, people say there is no evidence and they are just ignorant of the fact that there is a lot of evidence. This is a reflection of the times we live in and shows the apostasy. Before now the problem was more fraud then a lack of evidence. Although the Catholic church goes to great length to substantiate their relics to be sure they are real and not a counterfeit. Recently we had this with the James Ossuary where "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus" is cut into one side of the box. The authenticity of the inscription was been challenged. The Israeli Antiquities Authority (IAA) determined in 2003 that the inscriptions were forged at a much later date.[5][6] In December 2004, Oded Golan was charged with 44 counts of forgery, fraud and deception, including forgery of the Ossuary inscription.

The time issue is a real problem with the flood. Many places in the middle east have had floods. The city of Ur where Abraham came from has a 10 foot thick layer of flood deposits. Where I live at has flood deposits up to 25 feet thick from the end of the last ice age. The problem is the dates do not always line up with the time of Noah's flood. But if you want flood deposits you can find evidence of flooding just about anywhere you go. Some areas have a major flood every 100 years, there are areas that have a major flood every 1000 years. So if people say there is no evidence of a flood then that is a lie. Everywhere you go you will find evidence of a flood. What is in dispute is the time of the flood and if that dates to Noah's flood or not.

Here on this forum when we were showing the evidence of man like foot prints along with dinosaur prints the natural response was to claim foul and to say they are a forgery. Which of course everyone believe even though there is a lack of verifiable evidence to that effect. That is the case with the Shroud of Turin. Even though the Shroud was made available for a complete scientific investigation the skeptics and scoffers do their best to dispute the results.

Bottom line: Even with the most iron clad rock solid evidence there are still people that will dispute the results. Or they will do as your attempting to do and claim there is no evidence when tons of evidence exists. So I do not know if this is ignorance or fraud to claim that there is no evidence.

Turin_shroud_positive_and_negative_displaying_original_color_information_708_x_465_pixels_94_KB.jpg
Erm.. the shroud of Turing was tested scientifically, it dated as medieval, ergo not Jesus's shroud.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I don't have a PhD, but that is a fact whether you are willing to accept it or not. Compare the genealogies provided by Matthew and Luke. Whoops!
The genealogies were stored in the Temple that was destroyed in 70 AD. Paul talks about "foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels". So even their were just as many disputes over the origional copies. You seem to be a big time muckraker on here. Your always trying to stir up controversy over an alleged lack of evidence when LOTS of evidence exists. Just because you do not want to accept the evidence does not mean the evidence does not exist for those who are open to receive what God has for them.
 
Upvote 0

joshua 1 9

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
May 11, 2015
17,420
3,592
Northern Ohio
✟314,577.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Erm.. the shroud of Turing was tested scientifically, it dated as medieval, ergo not Jesus's shroud.
The patch was dated as medieval and indeed it was patched by the nuns after it was damaged in a fire.

The Shroud is as substantial of evidence as your every going to find. Yet people still try to argue against it because they do not want to accept the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.

If you think the Shroud is a fraud then by all means duplicate it. Show us how easy it is to make another one just like it.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Riddle me this, Rick:

When is a "prenatal wonder drug" a "bad prescription drug"?

I could care less, I'm not the one addicted to its history.

Which is when, please?

Can you give me a range of years?

I don't think the bible actually provides a time, however, don't biblical experts attribute it to the time of Ramses? There are no archeologically artifacts in that time period that can be attributed to Hebrews according to the Archaeological literature.

Do you understand my question, sir?Since when? 1930-2006? or 2006, ff?Since when? since after a rigged vote?Sorry facts are facts.

I understand quite well. What you are ignoring is that the description of what qualifies as planet has not changed. What has changed is that it was recognized that it (Pluto) did not meet those criteria and therefore, should be down graded to a minor planet.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Perhaps there is none that you are aware of.
If I was to command a search for the Loch Ness Monster, I'd line everybody up on my team and tell everyone that believes in Nessie to take one step forward.

I would then dismiss the rest of the crew.

I want to see a look of disappointment, not a look of confirmation, on their faces, should she not be found.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Bottom line: Even with the most iron clad rock solid evidence there are still people that will dispute the results. Or they will do as your attempting to do and claim there is no evidence when tons of evidence exists. So I do not know if this is ignorance or fraud to claim that there is no evidence.

Tons of evidence exist that the Shroud of Turin is authentic? There is not only no evidence supporting the authenticity of the Shroud, but three independent radiocarbon labs all placed it in medieval times. It's a fake.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I could care less,
Assuming you meant, "I couldn't care less," it shows.
RickG said:
I don't think the bible actually provides a time, however, don't biblical experts attribute it to the time of Ramses?
Rick, you told me that experts searched for Moses in the wilderness, and I asked what timeframe they were looking for him, and you suddenly got lockjaw or something.

I'm willing to consider the source and withdraw the question.
RickG said:
There are no archeologically artifacts in that time period that can be attributed to Hebrews according to the Archaeological literature.
Fair enough.

Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.
RickG said:
I understand quite well.
Then maybe you could use your understanding to convince a few scientists, the state legislatures of California, New Mexico, and Illinois, and the rest of those who disagree with Pluto's demotion that the matter should be settled in favor of a shrewdness of scientists behind closed doors in 2006.
RickG said:
What you are ignoring is that the description of what qualifies as planet has not changed.
Now that's funny.

I was under the assumption that, prior to Pluto's demotion, there was no proper definition of "planet" in the dictionary.
RickG said:
What has changed is that it was recognized that it (Pluto) did not meet those criteria and therefore, should be down graded to a minor planet.
Criteria set after the fact.

From behind closed doors.
 
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,053
9,608
47
UK
✟1,147,495.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
The patch was dated as medieval and indeed it was patched by the nuns after it was damaged in a fire.

The Shroud is as substantial of evidence as your every going to find. Yet people still try to argue against it because they do not want to accept the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.

If you think the Shroud is a fraud then by all means duplicate it. Show us how easy it is to make another one just like it.
Here's a big clue that the shroud might not be authentic
“”Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie, And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself…
John 20:1:6, King James Version

Ithe traditional Jewish burial practice sees multiple burial wrappings being used, with a separate cloth around the face, as described in John.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Turin_Shroud
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,053
9,608
47
UK
✟1,147,495.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
The patch was dated as medieval and indeed it was patched by the nuns after it was damaged in a fire.

The Shroud is as substantial of evidence as your every going to find. Yet people still try to argue against it because they do not want to accept the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus.

If you think the Shroud is a fraud then by all means duplicate it. Show us how easy it is to make another one just like it.
Why should this relic be treated as authentic when historically it appears out of nowhere in the medieval period, a period when numerous fake relics were circulating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dr GS Hurd
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,851,044
51,495
Guam
✟4,906,691.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The Bible mentions the pre-Chinese.

Genesis 10:17 And the Hivite, and the Arkite, and the Sinite,
Which one is Chinese ...
Which one did I highlight, Rick?
RickG said:
... and what source supports it, other than AV1611VET?
What difference does it matter, if you don't believe it anyway?

Here -- prove my point:

Sinites in Asia

Out of which of Noah's three sons did the Chinese race come from?

The Table of Nations
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Assuming you meant, "I couldn't care less," it shows.Rick, you told me that experts searched for Moses in the wilderness, and I asked what timeframe they were looking for him, and you suddenly got lockjaw or something.
They don't look for a time frame. They look for evidence, verify it, and date it. Dating it gives the time frame.

Case closed, as far as I'm concerned.Then maybe you could use your understanding to convince a few scientists, the state legislatures of California, New Mexico, and Illinois, and the rest of those who disagree with Pluto's demotion that the matter should be settled in favor of a shrewdness of scientists behind closed doors in 2006.Now that's funny.[/quoe]

Thank God scientific research is not done by state legislatures. We would still be in the dark ages if it were.

I was under the assumption that, prior to Pluto's demotion, there was no proper definition of "planet" in the dictionary.Criteria set after the fact.
What dictionary? Why would planetary scientists use a dictionary for scientific descriptions?

From behind closed doors.

At one time Ceres, Pallas, Juno and Vesta were considered planets as well. Want to restate them too? That would give us 13 planets. And how about our moon, might as well call it a planet too.

Until 2006 the precise description of a planet was not solid. Therefore, in 2006 the International Astronomical Union decided specifically what constitutes a planet. This was not done behind closed doors. The agenda(s) of the meeting was announced and published months in advance of the meeting, giving all IAU members or anyone who wished to become an IAU member do so, and attend the meeting. The IAU did not meet with the specific agenda to down grade Pluto. Defining what a planet is specifically, as agreed on an international basis by people who work in the field, was only one of the items to be discussed at the meeting.
 
Upvote 0

RickG

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Oct 1, 2011
10,092
1,430
Georgia
✟83,873.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.