Setting an Atmosphere for the Presence of God

Agree with you 100%. Makes you wonder how many definitions of worship leader exist.

Talitha, I'm sure you've seen the differences in services. That's the reason you're aware and want that to be the focus . If the worship leader lacks understanding of that, the congregation probably won't be able to make that important move to worship at the beginning of the service nor wait to see what direction Yahweh wants. But I have seen some pastors or church leaders be able to lead the congregation into worship at different times sometimes during communion, some prayers, some sermons, etc.

We've found that as long as we're singing about ourselves, our minds are primarily on us. But when we finally get our minds off ourselves (whether we're singing or not, privately or congregational) and think primarily about Him, we can move from praising to worshiping Yahweh - engaging our spirits (John 4:24). Then we can expect His manifested presence. One way we know that we've been in His presence is there will be "fullness of joy" (Psa 16:11) and times of refreshing (Acts 3:19).

Interested in sharing what you've learned?

At the places I play at, 95% of the atmosphere is set by the big-screen video content and the music itself, and it's all scripted down to the second. The WL may add a few words before each song's first verse begins, but rarely would you get, say, a couple minute interlude where the music would get real quiet and the Spirit would settle down on the place. By that I mean along the lines of Kari Jobe's or Kim Walker/Smith's music.

I don't think there's a "one size fits all" answer to Talitha's question (and I know no one implied there is -- I'm just sayin'). A Baptist WL would be carried out on a stretcher from a loud, modern, sensory-heavy service for not having a pulse. A Charismatic WL would probably get thrown out of a Baptist service by a couple guys from Security for being insane.

What is the church's mission, what are the tools it's chosen to attain it, and how does the WL need to behave in order to achieve the church's specific goals for that service? I can see a WL being nothing more than the band leader all the way up to doing mini-sermons like Mark Hall from Casting Crowns might do -- and everything in between -- again, "depending."

I sympathize with your POV. However, our job is to make disciples. You can't make disciples without first making converts. You can't make converts without first attracting them to the fold. I don't know what it's like in your country, but mine is a senses/sensory-driven culture. Today, people like big, well-produced shows and loud music and entertainment. That's what brings them through the front doors and keeps them coming back.

I can't recall who said it, but it goes something like this: Ignore reality long enough, and it will eventually destroy you. I've seen reality ignored bleed churches dry until there's no one under 50 years old left in the seats, most are on Social Security, half of them are on inhalers or sick with something, the Sunday head count averages 11, and an old lady is playing a dusty 2-ton Hammond through tinny-sounding public address announcement speakers that were nailed to the walls back in 1971.

Okay, I admit I'm overstating things. But show me an inward-facing church that's nice and polite and respectful, never risking offending its older regulars, and I'll show you a church that isn't growing its membership. That's a church that's failing in its mission.

I know what you mean about getting told not to offend the regulars. I've left worship teams because I got sick of hearing that. I'll bet you ten to one that one of those churches has gotten less than a dozen people saved between then and now -- not because I left, but because they're just stuck in their ways and they're so totally blind to the fact. (I recall "In the Heat of the Night" where Mrs. Colbert [Lee Grant] tells the sheriff, "Find my husband's real killer, or I'll pack up my engineers and leave you to... yourselves." It was brilliant.)

We definitely diverge on a few of the points being made here, but, whatever works for your society and environment and culture. Blessings to your ministry.

Looked at Moses' tabernacle too and even at a glance, there's so many patterns, meanings, etc in those 50 chapters including a prophetic picture of Yeshua.

Other ways to set the atmosphere include prayer including before the service officially begins (our church invites anyone to come an hour beforehand to pray, no one is in charge, visiting is done outside the sanctuary, etc.) and (know it's not popular today) but repentance and forgiveness. Again, it's about deliberately focusing on Yahweh.

posted: "Real seekers want the manifestations, and they will sit through anything as long as they get Jesus. I really believe that we should be more about attracting the Holy Spirit and less about attracting people who are not interested in Him."

Couldn't agree with you more. When I read about revivals in the past, it seems the changes happened primarily in the church then out

I think something we often neglect to realize is how obscure our terminology is at times.
One thing I've emphasized a few times the past few worship meetings with my local congregation is that the presence of God is always there... God is omni-PRESENT. No matter where we meet to worship or when we meet to worship, His presence is there. It is just up to us to turn to Him and become aware of that presence.

So the concept of setting an atmosphere... Yes, to an extent... Reality is, you can do everything you want as a worship leader, but if people aren't purposing in their own selves to experience God's presence, they are going to miss it either way. Our job as worship leaders, I would argue, is to thoughtfully prepare the service in a way where we aren't going to distract those who are trying to press in and seek God. I somewhat agree with your stance, and I'm sure in practice I fully agree, but to say you are "attracting the Holy Spirit" is technically heresy! It's got to be rooted in people being attracted to the Holy Spirit.

These Scriptures say - We draw near to Yahweh and He promises to draw near to us.
"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8
"Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Heb 10:22
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11;6
"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" Acts 17:27
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tturt said:

These Scriptures say - We draw near to Yahweh and He promises to draw near to us.
"Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded." James 4:8
"Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water." Heb 10:22
"But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Heb 11;6
"That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:" Acts 17:27
"

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Yes, the Scriptures say that, but it is always an action for us. To say that we are bringing God closer is false, but rather we are aligning our hearts closer to Him. I would interpret these to be more of our realization of His presence in our lives as we draw near to Him. Regardless of how you interpret it though, it's always dependant on something we do. "Draw nigh to God," "Let us draw near," "for he that cometh to God..."

It's always got to do with the attitude we come with.

talitha said:

Okay, Dann, here's my question to you - in practical terms, how do YOU do that? For me one thing that is necessary is a certain level of proficiency among the team - singers who sing on key, a drummer who doesn't rush or drag, etc.

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Absolutely. I've always had a desire for excellence when it comes to worship music. Though everyone has a hard time addressing the reality of it, if the band hits a wrong note or they're playing in the wrong keys or the PA system is crackling all the time... I'm not going to be in tune, myself. Now, this particular ideology might apply more to those who are actually musically inclined enough to notice, but in today's culture, people notice. I know personally, if I'm in a church and the worship team is just noticeably unprepared and horribly out of tune, it really distracts me. I suppose that might speak to "the flesh" and its desires, but at this point it is something I cannot help. Haha! I guess to sum it up, I would agree and say that preparation is huge (at least for me) in setting an atmosphere for worship.

talitha said:

Why is it heresy?

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I guess I would argue that, as mentioned above, God is omni-present. I try to avoid terminology where it is suggested that God is being welcomed or we invite Him to join us... Reality is, it is Him who invites us, and He is already there. Perhaps heresy is too strong of a notion, but that's what I was trying to communicate, anyways!

talitha said:

DannLevitt, thanks for your post.

I think of this scripture, addressed by the risen Jesus to a church: "Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me" (Rev. 3:20). It is possible to shut Jesus out of the church or its meetings. I have seen this more often than not, sadly, in worship services, which become so programmed and scheduled that effectively Jesus finds himself standing at the door knocking - but no one can here for the noise of the worship team - or the organ, as the case may be. What would you say to that?

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Oh I definitely agree. I've been to many churches that completely ignore God's presence in their service and opt to do things their way. Definitely agree. My point was more toward terminology - when we talk about inviting God or God coming into our worship service, we are implying that there was a moment where God was not in that place before we prompted Him to come. Psalm 139:7-12 is a good example of this - David is referring to God's Spirit and says that literally no matter where he goes, God's Spirit is there. God's presence is there.

What I think we are then talking about here is the acknowledgement of His presence. Is it possible to ignore God's presence? Absolutely. But in looking at passages like the aforementioned Psalm, it is a stretch to say that God's presence will "leave" a place or refuse to show up if someone neglects to invite Him there. David goes as far as to even say God's presence is even in Sheol (in some translations)! It's just a matter of terminology I think, but it can be important. If we realize that God's presence is already there when we show up, it goes from us welcoming Him to the service... To Him welcoming us to the service. We are invited to worship by God Himself. Makes quite the difference.

tturt said:

Looked at Moses' tabernacle too and even at a glance, there's so many patterns, meanings, etc in those 50 chapters including a prophetic picture of Yeshua.

Other ways to set the atmosphere include prayer including before the service officially begins (our church invites anyone to come an hour beforehand to pray, no one is in charge, visiting is done outside the sanctuary, etc.) and (know it's not popular today) but repentance and forgiveness. Again, it's about deliberately focusing on Yahweh.

posted: "Real seekers want the manifestations, and they will sit through anything as long as they get Jesus. I really believe that we should be more about attracting the Holy Spirit and less about attracting people who are not interested in Him."

Couldn't agree with you more. When I read about revivals in the past, it seems the changes happened primarily in the church then out

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one thing we need to note from all those details is that God dictated every single detail of their worship from the construction materials, aesthetics, liturgy, etc. He was also very careful to underscore the importance of everything being according to His design uncorrupted by new elements introduced without God's superintendence. This frighteningly demonstrated in Leviticus 10:1-3. Worship leaders ought to tremble at the immense responsibility of not offending God, and making certain that they facilitate the sanctity of His worship with intense scrupulosity.

royal priest said:

one thing we need to note from all those details is that God dictated every single detail of their worship from the construction materials, aesthetics, liturgy, etc. He was also very careful to underscore the importance of everything being according to His design uncorrupted by new elements introduced without God's superintendence. This frighteningly demonstrated in Leviticus 10:1-3. Worship leaders ought to tremble at the immense responsibility of not offending God, and making certain that they facilitate the sanctity of His worship with intense scrupulosity.

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This takes us into the very interesting realm of liturgics. I reccommend The Oxford History of Christian Worship and The Eucharistic Liturgies by Paul Bradshaw and Maxwell Johnson as a starting point.

royal priest said:

one thing we need to note from all those details is that God dictated every single detail of their worship from the construction materials, aesthetics, liturgy, etc. He was also very careful to underscore the importance of everything being according to His design uncorrupted by new elements introduced without God's superintendence. This frighteningly demonstrated in Leviticus 10:1-3. Worship leaders ought to tremble at the immense responsibility of not offending God, and making certain that they facilitate the sanctity of His worship with intense scrupulosity.

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All that God recorded in the Old Testament about worship was for Israel, and foreshadowing the coming of their Messiah ---Jesus, the Christ of God. That is why there is so much detail, and all that detail is encompassed in Christ. I don't see we are to be going back to the practices for the Israelite religion, except to see how God works in general and was preparing them for what was to come ---as we have in the Church today.

We can surely learn some lessons in type from the OT, but I don't see any scripture for "worship leaders" or hierarchy in this age of Grace; for we are all called to worship as a "holy" and "royal priesthood" (1 Pet. 2). The assemblies collectively should set forth the Lord's Table for the assembly worship in unity for collective "Remembrance" as shown in I Corinthians 11:23-27. Individual saints can worship anytime and anywhere. Just some thoughts here to study in the Word. Let us look up always and seek God's mind.

1watchman said:

All that God recorded in the Old Testament about worship was for Israel, and foreshadowing the coming of their Messiah ---Jesus, the Christ of God. That is why there is so much detail, and all that detail is encompassed in Christ. I don't see we are to be going back to the practices for the Israelite religion, except to see how God works in general and was preparing them for what was to come ---as we have in the Church today.

We can surely learn some lessons in type from the OT, but I don't see any scripture for "worship leaders" or hierarchy in this age of Grace; for we are all called to worship as a "holy" and "royal priesthood" (1 Pet. 2). The assemblies collectively should set forth the Lord's Table for the assembly worship in unity for collective "Remembrance" as shown in I Corinthians 11:23-27. Individual saints can worship anytime and anywhere. Just some thoughts here to study in the Word. Let us look up always and seek God's mind.

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The early church had liturgical worship, and organized worship is accepted by most people. The approach you are outlining would be satisfied by Quakers and Plymouth Brethren perhaps, but is a bit foreign to most of, us and I do not think a case can be ,ade that our approach is unbiblical. When I say "our" I am including most Protestants, in addition to Orthodox, Assyrians and Catholics.