Saul of Tarsus

GillDouglas said:

Paul the Apostle, originally known as Saul of Tarsus, was an apostle (though not one of the Twelve Apostles) who taught the gospel of Christ to the first-century world. He is generally considered one of the most important figures in the Christian community. He spent many years ministering to both Jew and Gentile, but most notably to the Gentiles. Over half of the New Testament can be attributed to Paul.

According to writings in the New Testament Paul was dedicated to the persecution of the early disciples of Jesus in the area of Jerusalem. What has been documented about this time period concerning this? I have read several documents of Romans persecuting the early Christians, but have found nothing regarding Jews tracking down Jewish believers of Christ.

What is the MJ view of Paul, a Jew who not only persecuted the early MJ community but also gave the good news to the Gentile? Are the teachings of Paul regarded the same as others such as James, Peter, or Matthew?

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Traditional MJ view is that Paul all though misunderstood and taken out of context by traditional Christianity corresponds perfectly with the rest of the apostles and the gospel message.

Gal, Eph, Rom...

GillDouglas said:

Paul the Apostle, originally known as Saul of Tarsus, was an apostle (though not one of the Twelve Apostles) who taught the gospel of Christ to the first-century world. He is generally considered one of the most important figures in the Christian community. He spent many years ministering to both Jew and Gentile, but most notably to the Gentiles. Over half of the New Testament can be attributed to Paul.

According to writings in the New Testament Paul was dedicated to the persecution of the early disciples of Jesus in the area of Jerusalem. What has been documented about this time period concerning this? I have read several documents of Romans persecuting the early Christians, but have found nothing regarding Jews tracking down Jewish believers of Christ.

What is the MJ view of Paul, a Jew who not only persecuted the early MJ community but also gave the good news to the Gentile? Are the teachings of Paul regarded the same as others such as James, Peter, or Matthew?

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Paul's New Testament writings have Divine authority.

To the penmanship of Paul we owe a great deal of our understanding of how Old Testament truth is fulfilled in the New.

My understanding was that Paul ceased to persecute when he was converted on the Damascus Road.

visionary said:

Gal, Eph, Rom...

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Saul (Paul) wrote these Books?

MJ's focus in on the facts that Paul declared himself to be (present tense) a pharisee of pharisees, and that he testified under oath that he kept all the laws. It is a common misunderstanding of Christians that Paul gave up observing the law.

GillDouglas said:

Ahh, that makes sense. Due to his teachings on salvation by grace through faith alone rather than works, it is inferred that he no longer observed the law for that purpose.

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Observing the law doesn't earn us heaven. But there are still many many reasons to observe the law, beginning with God said so.

And by the way, Paul taught salvation by faith, but not faith alone. No alone.

Open Heart said:

Observing the law doesn't earn us heaven. But there are still many many reasons to observe the law, beginning with God said so.

And by the way, Paul taught salvation by faith, but not faith alone. No alone.

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If only there was some clarification. Oh wait!

James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

BelieveTheWord said:

If only there was some clarification. Oh wait!

James 2:24 "You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

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Exactly!!!!!!!! This is the ONLY time in scripture that "faith ALONE" is used.

GillDouglas said:

Works are the proof of one justified but works do not justify the man.

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That's not what the verse says. LOL You are caught.

GillDouglas said:

Thank you Shim for your input. I am curious which of Paul's teachings have been taken out of context most frequently? Do you have anything to add to the personal character of Paul, or his life before Jesus blinded him?

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2 Peter 3: 14-16 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Much of the 'Church' teaches that the Law/Torah is not for the follower of Messiah. They use Paul teaching as a "proof" regarding this teaching. Peter is indicatating that Paul's teaching if not understood properly lead you into error.

Peter finishes this statement in vs 17 by stating:

Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard not to be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.

The issue with modern Christianity as it is taught today in MANY churches is they want Messiah as Savior but not as Lord. This produces believers that are very fleshly it also explains why the "church" doesn't look any different to the world than its own. We see that reflected in the divorce rates among evangelical Christians (defined as those who self describe as "born again")

Various studies show that divorce rates among those who go to church is alarmingly high. A study conducted by Baylor University shows that EVANGELICAL Christians have a higher divorce rate than those who have NO religious affiliation at all.

Clearly something is wrong.

The Lone Ranger said:

Saul (Paul) wrote these Books?

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It's generally agreed by all that Paul wrote Galatians and Romans. Ephesians is a different story. It is considered "Pauline," since it was probably written by one of his followers later on, but it was written by Paul himself. His name was attached to it to lend it authority.

GillDouglas said:

The gift of good works can only come by the working of the Holy Spirit.

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Are you saying that Mormons, who are full of good works, evidence the working of the Holy Spirit?

GillDouglas said:

I believe you're misunderstanding James here. Works are the proof of one justified but works do not justify the man. You cannot see a man's faith, but you can see his works. The gift of good works can only come by the working of the Holy Spirit.

"Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures." (James 1:16-18)

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I'm not sure justification and salvation are necessarily the same...

Hoshiyya said:

I'm not sure justification and salvation are necessarily the same...

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I know that Christian theologians like to divorce the two, but they seem to me to refer to the same thing.

Well while I think they can be different, I probably wouldn't interpret these the same way Christian theologians would.

yonah_mishael said:

Are you saying that Mormons, who are full of good works, evidence the working of the Holy Spirit?

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A person can know God DESPITE the heresy of their religion.