Hello my friend and thank you for the reply. I would like to ask you something if that is okay. I said that I am fully persuaded that these things are true, and you said you find this a bit disturbing. I'm just curious to know why this is disturbing to you?
"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because
he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever
is not of faith is sin." Romans 14:23
I understand that we should not assert to know anything:
"For I determined
not to know any thing among you,
save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. " 1 Corinthians 2:2
"And if any man think that he knoweth any thing,
he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
But if any man love God, the same is known of him." 1 Corinthians 8:2
This is the mindset I had when I first began studying the Scriptures. I actually started in Genesis rather than Matthew, because I had determined that I was going to put Yeshua to the test as well. I thought it would make more sense to learn about Yeshua's God before I tried to understand what Yeshua was trying to tell us about Him.
That was several years ago, and I haven't been able to stop since. I'm not a part of a cult or any organization. I'm 25 years old and I go to a Southern Baptist church.
I used to believe in an infinite amount of possibilities as well. I believed that if I chose this option, God knew everything that would come of it. It I chose that instead, God likewise knew everything that decision would bring. And thus this goes on for every second of our lives. My problem with this exact details in prophecy:
"That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:
That saith of
Cyrus,
He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid." Isaiah 44:27
How did God know several years that before Cyrus was born, that his parents would name this particular person Cyrus? You see, if there was infinite amount of possibilities, then how can God say with 100% certainty that anything He wants will happen? What would have happened if Paul said no?
Yes my friend, but if you have the chocolate topping in hand, and your child just happens to choose the cake, then your foreknowledge was mistaken. It is impossible for us to know what any other human being will do at anytime. But God knows all. If He has the cone and topping ready for the child, then the child is going to choose the ice cream. While you were making your best educated guess (albeit a good one), God knows with 100% certainty.
I think there is a misunderstanding. I'm not saying we don't have a will or that we don't make choices. This is obvious. What I'm saying is, we are not
free to outweigh all possible outcomes for our choices to make a 100% free decision. We are all influenced by our family, our society, mental capacity, and a million other factors that none of us have any control over.
As I asked LoveofTruth, say there is a 23 year old Muslim girl in Afghanistan. Her
entire life she has been told to stay away from those "pagan Christians" or she will suffer eternally in Jahannam. One day she is walking down the street, and a man rapes and kills her. After this horrible event, and because her family and country all agreed and taught that Christianity is wrong, does she go to hell? Does God annihilate her as if she meant nothing to Him?
I understand what you're saying, but I have to disagree that free will and morally free agents are necessary for any of those things.
"For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak." John 12:49
"Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. " John 4:34
What if Yeshua had decided from His own "free will" not to obey? This is impossible.
"Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless
not my will, but thine, be done." Luke 22:42
Yeshua indeed had a will, and for a moment, His will was contrary to that of His Father's. But Yeshua had something else acting on His will that was stronger than His own. He had the Spirit of God leading Him to accomplish all that God had sent Him out to do. So, Yeshua did give His own life, but only beCause He Loves God and God had given Him authority to take it back up.
"No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment (
ἐξουσίαν: authority) have
I received of my Father." John 10:18
Yeshua loves God, just as we do. But why? Is there any reason that we should Love God? If we don't even know Him, if we've never heard of Him, or if our entire lives we've been told He is the wrong one, then why do we love Him?
"We love him,
beCause he first loved us." 1 John 4:19
I just have a quick question about this. Does God
learn about you, or did He already
know about you?
"
Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and
before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee,
and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak:
for I am a child.
But the LORD said unto me,
Say not, I
am a child:
for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak.
Be not afraid of their faces:
for I am with thee to deliver thee, saith the LORD.
Then the LORD
put forth his hand, and touched my mouth. And the LORD said unto me, Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth." Jeremiah 1:5
Thank you for bringing this up. You are the first Christian I've talked to that has brought up Quantum Mechanics.
I do not believe in the Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics. I believe the Pilot-Wave interpretation is completely valid and answers all the "weirdness" involved in entanglement and quantum effects. Pilot Wave is non-local, so this means that in order for us to know the relationship between the velocity and position of a particle, we would have to have knowledge of every particle in the Universe since the "Big Bang" (so they call it). This Knowledge if far too outstanding for us, but I assure you my friend, Quantum Effects do not happen unless God has determined them to happen.
Here are a few articles of Atheists using the Uncertainty Principle to spout out whatever nonsense they wish.
Here is Stephen Hawkins using the Uncertainty Principle as an excuse for why the Universe is eternal and doesn't need God:
http://www.hawking.org.uk/the-beginning-of-time.html
From article: The focussing of our past light cone implied that time must have a beginning, if the General Theory of relativity is correct.
But one might raise the question, of whether General Relativity really is correct. It certainly agrees with all the observational tests that have been carried out. However these test General Relativity, only over fairly large distances. We know that General Relativity can not be quite correct on very small distances, because it is a classical theory. This means, it doesn't take into account, the
Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Mechanics, which says that an object can not have both a well defined position, and a well defined speed: the more accurately one measures the position, the less accurately one can measure the speed, and vice versa.
Here is a video of Machio Kaku telling us the same thing for free will:
http://www.speciesuniverse.com/why-physics-ends-the-free-will-debate-by-michio-kaku/
From article: Dr. Kaku tells us that Newtonian Mechanics gave us determinism which says the Universe runs like a clock. What you’re going to have for your dinner tonight was predetermined at the time of the Big Bang. All behavior is predetermined according to determinism. Einstein himself was a determinist.
However, Heisenberg comes along with the
Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle introducing uncertainty into all behavior.
The position of atoms is uncertain and in fact can be in many places simultaneously.
Here is an interview with Neils Bohr where he explains the reason why he chose to argue with Albert Einstein and Louis de Broglie about Quantum Mechanics:
https://publishing.aip.org/history-programs/niels-bohr-library/oral-histories/4517-5
Here are a few article about Pilot-Waves:
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-bohm/
http://www.wired.com/2014/06/the-new-quantum-reality/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/blogs/physics/2014/09/quantum-physicists-catch-a-pilot-wave/
Here is a Cambridge course on Pilot Waves:
http://www.tcm.phy.cam.ac.uk/~mdt26/pilot_waves.html
This is also the wisdom of the world. I only believe the Scriptures.
I'm sorry, I don't agree with that quote. I think the children of God should forgive him rather than torment him.
I understand what you're saying, but I do not see any of this in the Scriptures. So it's not that I believe the Scriptures believed in a pagan entity, I'm saying that
man believes the Scriptures speak of this pagan entity.
No, because Satan could not speak lies, nor speak anything else, if God had not created him. And since he was a murder and liar from the beginning, when God created him, then God created him specifically to be a murderer and a liar. This does not make God a murderer or a liar, but He is responsible for creating Satan this way:
"Now the serpent was
more subtil than any beast of the field
which the LORD God had made." Genesis 3:1
Why? How did the Serpent become subtil? How did he lie before Adam and Eve had brought sin in the world?
I can't agree with this assumption my friend. This world is indeed a
meaningless puppet show, for:
"Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity." Ecclesiastes 1:2
We don't have free will now, because if we had absolute free will, we would always choose evil. We are under the
bondage of corruption. We are sinning machines. We wouldn't choose God because God desires that we do things that we don't want to do, and he desires that we refrain from things we want to do. You can say that since God doesn't get these things, then we have free will. I say He hasn't got it yet, because there is still more left to do. But the Scriptures say He will get this, and when He does:
"For the creature was made subject to
vanity,
not willingly, but by
reason of him who hath subjected the
same in hope,
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." Romans 8:20
I'm sorry, I'm having trouble making sense of this. You say that Eve needed to trust God and listen to the Spirit of Life within her. I agree that this would have been Good, but Eve had no knowledge of Good. How could she? The Fruit contained both.
You wrote: to gain her own knowledge of good and evil so that she could make her own judgements.
But then the Orthodox interpretation is that she already made her own judgement when she decided, before she ate the Fruit, that she wanted to disobey God.
This passage doesn't say we have a choice, it says we have an obligation. Now that God has revealed Himself to us, we are obligated to live in accordance with the Spirit. These words are written for us so that after we read them, this will Cause us to know what God wishes us to do. Some people hear these words and do them, and others don't. It is all in accordance with the measure of faith God has given to us:
"And be not conformed to this world: but be ye
transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may
prove what is that
good, and
acceptable, and
perfect,
will of God.
For I say, through the grace
given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly,
according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." Romans 12:2
Thank you. I am also on the side of freedom and love. Freedom from the bondage of corruption, and love for every human being that has ever lived. And I believe this Love has overcome all things, and Love never fails.
Thank you my friend. I am enjoying this conversation with you very much. God bless you.
