Oregon School Shooting

s_gunter

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you presented a biased source
I was merely trying to point that out

it seems that some of the victims were not Christian
one of the victims the author says "would probably not want to be remembered as a Christian martyr"
and points to the fact that the person has posted on Facebook about progressive political issues and did not talk about religion
... that seems like a stretch to assume that a person was or was not a Christian, just because they do not talk about it a lot?

one of them it is reported that "he would probably call himself an agnostic"
well did he describe himself that way?
did his close friends and family describe him that way?
or is this just based on his facebook?

another one made a joke about Jehovah's Witness coming to the door
ok?
I think everyone has made jokes about that

the article is written with a clear bias by someone who calls claims to be "friendly" but is really just a poor journalist who has more interest in advancing a world view then in finding the truth.

Yes, he's biased, but he's allowed to be. Hemant Mehta, the "Friendly Atheist", is not a credentialed journalist. He didn't study journalism in school, he merely became famous through his atheist blogging. He has college degrees in biology and math, where he eventually earned a master's degree. For a long time, he was a high school math teacher. He's the "Friendly Atheist," because compared to the likes of the "Four Horsemen (Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, and Daniel Dennett), who "preach" "hellfire and brimstone" "sermons," he really is friendly.

To say that the quoted article is written by someone who claims to be "friendly" is inaccurate. The "Friendly Atheist (Hemant Mehta)" didn't write the quoted article. Mehta only posted that article to his blog. I happen to agree with you that the article writer is a poor journalist and that he is "advancing a world view." But, even we are guilty of that. The atheists could just as legitimately accuse the religious of doing same when a Catholic writes something from a Catholic point of view.
 
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s_gunter

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So this just came to my attention. Words fail, but very intriguing...

http://tucson.com/news/national/ore...cle_b2fe3334-4762-59fe-9af5-c154f00d77c2.html

Be careful.... The media has merely ripped this from the mother's online postings, and likely put their spin on it. We don't know the context. We still don't know much about the mother, except for the most incriminating. You think the media is going to put something she did good out there? The good stuff wouldn't increase the ratings...
 
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Armoured

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Be careful.... The media has merely ripped this from the mother's online postings, and likely put their spin on it. We don't know the context. We still don't know much about the mother, except for the most incriminating. You think the media is going to put something she did good out there? The good stuff wouldn't increase the ratings...
It's always good to be on the lookout for slant and quote mines, but on the face of it, this stuff looks pretty straight, IMHO. Hard to see how the quotes could mean anything other than what they appear to mean.

I stand to be corrected, but if she didn't mean them the way it looks, some reasonable explanation is warranted.
 
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s_gunter

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It's always good to be on the lookout for slant and quote mines, but on the face of it, this stuff looks pretty straight, IMHO. Hard to see how the quotes could mean anything other than what they appear to mean.

I stand to be corrected, but if she didn't mean them the way it looks, some reasonable explanation is warranted.
Agreed. That's why I merely said, "Be careful." Also, I like "quote mines." I'll have to use that one...
 
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SolomonVII

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Really? "3 Hot's and a cot" for life is equivalent to dying slowly from multiple gunshot wounds to the torso?
A shot in the head is normally a death sentence.
A shot in the leg means there is still a chance at life.
 
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Genersis

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So this just came to my attention. Words fail, but very intriguing...

http://tucson.com/news/national/ore...cle_b2fe3334-4762-59fe-9af5-c154f00d77c2.html
So he was raised by a gun enthusiast who may of passed on that enthusiasm.
To be fair most gun enthusiasts don't end up going on killing sprees, likewise for people with aspergers.

None of this is really that notable; though I can't help but feel the article is trawling for a negative reaction against the mother, which I find disconcerting.
 
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AvilaSurfer

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It's the American gun culture which breeds this kind of behavior. As I suspected, this killer was a gun lover too.
Except that 99.999999% of the "American gun culture" doesn't shoot people.
 
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tadoflamb

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Except that 99.999999% of the "American gun culture" doesn't shoot people.

But it inspires that .000001% that does. American gun culture is sick and it keeps getting sicker.
 
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FlaviusAetius

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But it inspires that .000001% that does. American gun culture is sick and it keeps getting sicker.

That's a rather illogical and unhealthy way to view things you don't like.

About 1% of Catholic Priests molested children, does that give me the right to hate all Catholic clergy and consider their calling a sick perversion?

Also for the record, it's unappealing to your side to be overtly emotional and lacking in reason. I'm for some moderate increased restriction and background checking on fire arms, but when I see people like you who blatantly demonize gun owners I sympathize far more with the gun owners.
 
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tadoflamb

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That's a rather illogical and unhealthy way to view things you don't like.

About 1% of Catholic Priests molested children, does that give me the right to hate all Catholic clergy and consider their calling a sick perversion?

Also for the record, it's unappealing to your side to be overtly emotional and lacking in reason. I'm for some moderate increased restriction and background checking on fire arms, but when I see people like you who blatantly demonize gun owners I sympathize far more with the gun owners.

Nice analogy. Because of those Catholic priests and because I train altar servers and volunteer with St. Vincent de Paul I've had to get fingerprinted, have a background check with the FBI, and sign an attestation that I have read and understand the Diocese's policy on sexual abuse. I have to submit to the background check every three years.

Where's that kind of accountability with the gun lovers?

This why I take such an extreme position. For one, I've witnessed far too many displays of irresponsible gun ownership and for another, while the bodies are piling up, gun lovers have failed to self-regulate nor accept any culpability. I haven't molested anyone and I wasn't even Catholic at the time most of the abuse happened. Why then should I have to submit to fingerprinting and background checks while persons with evil motives can build up their arsenals unchecked?
 
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FlaviusAetius

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Nice analogy. Because of those Catholic priests and because I train altar servers and volunteer with St. Vincent de Paul I've had to get fingerprinted, have a background check with the FBI, and sign an attestation that I have read and understand the Diocese's policy on sexual abuse. I have to submit to the background check every three years.

Where's that kind of accountability with the gun lovers?

This why I take such an extreme position. For one, I've witnessed far too many displays of irresponsible gun ownership and for another, while the bodies are piling up, gun lovers have failed to self-regulate nor accept any culpability. I haven't molested anyone and I wasn't even Catholic at the time most of the abuse happened. Why then should I have to submit to fingerprinting and background checks while persons with evil motives can build up their arsenals unchecked?

I'm glad to know measures are in place to keep tabs on the Clergy. Even though the population of sexual abusers is low, one is too many.

Again though, why not discuss the gun topic with a level head? I guarantee you won't convince any gun owners by telling them their culture is what creates mass murderers. Like it's been said a vast majority of legal owners likely follow proper gun safety and teach it too their children. When you paint them all as irresponsible then why should they listen to you?
 
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parousia70

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I'm, required to have liability insurance on my car in case it's use, either by accident or malice, causes harm to another person. That way the victims of said harm, victims through no fault of their own, can be compensated for their loss.

Can someone here explain to me the objection to requiring I carry Liability Insurance on my firearm for the same reason?

Do people here really object to victims of Gun violence being compensated for their pain, suffering and Loss?
 
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brewmama

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It's the American gun culture which breeds this kind of behavior. As I suspected, this killer was a gun lover too.


What is the American gun culture? Considering that Americans have ALWAYS had guns, that everyone I knew growing up had guns, including us and my grandmother, and this kind of thing did not happen.That would point to it being something other than guns.
 
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Rhamiel

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So this just came to my attention. Words fail, but very intriguing...

http://tucson.com/news/national/ore...cle_b2fe3334-4762-59fe-9af5-c154f00d77c2.html

yeah :(
it is so sad that he came from a broken home
a child of divorce
not having a father around can really be bad for a young man

Also for the record, it's unappealing to your side to be overtly emotional and lacking in reason. I'm for some moderate increased restriction and background checking on fire arms, but when I see people like you who blatantly demonize gun owners I sympathize far more with the gun owners.

I feel the same way
I would love for there to be some reasonable gun laws
but then I look at places like Washington DC where it is almost impossible to own a handgun, with unreasonable restrictions
so it is not like I have to make a "slippery slope" argument, I can SEE what the Left has in mind for us
 
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Armoured

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What is the American gun culture? Considering that Americans have ALWAYS had guns, that everyone I knew growing up had guns, including us and my grandmother, and this kind of thing did not happen.That would point to it being something other than guns.
Except, of course, that these things did happen, they just weren't as publicised.
 
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SolomonVII

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What is the American gun culture? Considering that Americans have ALWAYS had guns, that everyone I knew growing up had guns, including us and my grandmother, and this kind of thing did not happen.That would point to it being something other than guns.
The guns have always been the constant. What has changed is the contempt that young men have for their society to where they are willing to commit random mass murder for any number of obscure personal reasons.

There are consequences to the kind of values that have become the mainstay of the kind of education that is being received, where more and more Americans see America itself as what is wrong with the world.
 
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SolomonVII

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I'm, required to have liability insurance on my car in case it's use, either by accident or malice, causes harm to another person. That way the victims of said harm, victims through no fault of their own, can be compensated for their loss.

Can someone here explain to me the objection to requiring I carry Liability Insurance on my firearm for the same reason?

Do people here really object to victims of Gun violence being compensated for their pain, suffering and Loss?
Any number of regulations and controls will not do a thing to stop random acts of violence, which by their very nature are unpredicatable.

Any number of different regulations and controls may well have merit for any number of reasons, as long as it is well enough understood that liability insurance will not stop these mass murder binges.
 
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