Why is homosexuality the one subject that may be too hot to handle?

Ohorseman

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God doesn't find the silly deceived "intellectual" arguments from world conformers to be valid.Again, rationalization of immorality is clearly condemned by God. God is completely aware of those who try extremely hard to find some sort of loophole cheating system for the LGBT community. He holds the model for the righteous and ideal design, and his word is clear and final.

God isn't going to say:
" :(:(Aww man, they think my word is homophobic and transphobic. Okay okay, i'll change scripture :sigh::sigh: ".

Political correctness and popularity doesn't change God's stance on these issues. And it shouldn't change our stance as Christians. When we compromise and conform we lose our salt and become like the rest of the world. What good is that? A "harsh"reminder: A friend of this world is an enemy of God. Those who say the bible isn't clear on this issue simply do not want to acknowledge what they perceive to be the "harsh" ugly truth.God makes himself clear and he does not bow down to the demands of human narcissism.

The reason why liberal/modernist researchers have been so hellbent on rationalizing sin, is because they are trying to fit God in their little politically correct box. They refuse to grasp the fact that God does not abide by their thinking. God is not at all "inclusive" for what scripture tells is clearly immoral.The constant defense, far reaching rationalization "oh the bible didn't mean that" type of approach is a tragic attempt to declare God to be the servant of our narcissistic needs.

Honestly ask yourselves these common sense questions: Where does gender confusion and homosexuality come from?WHY is it here? Is being born with a tendency really an excuse to commit the sin action? Why is God's specific design not inclusive of trans couples and same sex couples in both the eden and new earth to come after this old one passes away?What does this lack of "inclusiveness"tells us about God's stance on these issues? if this is outside of God's model, then why are we pushing this as morally acceptable?

The truth is right in front of your face folks. Smh

Amen sister. And there is nothing "uncivilized" about that post.

So, the "outsider" bluewren' post is obviously accepted because it agrees with the agenda. But the "outsider" Antoine L is rejected because it disagrees with the agenda... and then added to the "ignore list", along with me... a Methodist.

Wow, how very symbolic of how some read the Bible & The Book of Discipline.
 
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Dave-W

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Putting people on ignore shows much more discipline than slinging mud - something that happens far too often on these boards.
Self-discipline vs attempting to discipline someone else.
 
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RomansFiveEight

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Amen sister. And there is nothing "uncivilized" about that post.

So, the "outsider" bluewren' post is obviously accepted because it agrees with the agenda. But the "outsider" Antoine L is rejected because it disagrees with the agenda... and then added to the "ignore list", along with me... a Methodist.

Wow, how very symbolic of how some read the Bible & The Book of Discipline.

There's a difference between offering dialogue and "commanding". There are conservative (on the issue of human sexuality; it's becoming less and less a 'conservative/liberal' issue. I know conservatives who do not oppose homosexuality and liberals who do) UM's and former UM's on this forum who dissent with mine and circuitwriters position on the issue. As they are both Methodist AND in cohesion with the official beliefs of the UMC, there's a hardly a case for asking them to cease their perspective; and we're not asking them to. But I'd certainly object to someone who wants to simply dictate the conversation and not have honest and open dialogue. I may not agree with others on this forum on various issues; but I always appreciate honest and open dialogue. Dictating the conversation and claiming to have all the truth while nobody else does, is not productive, it's just self-aggrandizing and has no real place on this forum.

I'm not sure WHY I'm responding to this, because I have to admit; I doubt a single word will be heard as you've already discounted my self-worth because I don't agree with you. BUT, in the interest of dialogue; I'll encourage you to see the difference between "I believe the Bible says..." and "Anyone who doesn't agree with me is wrong". Your posts, and the posts of some others, have concluded that the issue is clear, cut and dry and anyone who disagrees with you is wrong, not following God, and not reading the Bible. We have this issue frequently over here. Usually very conservative, fundamentalist types come in and tell Methodists and Wesleyans what we ought to believe. There's a significant difference between offering a dialogue perspective, and telling others what they must believe. What you're doing, consistently, is telling others what they must believe; co-opting all of Christianity, and claiming the Bible only says one thing and you're the one who has it figured out; and we're not. If you continued to present your perspective but did so in a way that understood we have a different one and understood that Christians can still be Christians and not believe the Bible says what YOU believe it says, then there wouldn't be an issue. But this isn't what is happening here.
 
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circuitrider

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My ignore list is getting pretty big. Soon, I'll need to put half the board on ignore.
Fortunately, so far, my is fairly short. But if we get many more people ignoring the forum rules about not teaching doctrine in the congregational forums unless you are of that faith, the list may get longer.
 
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Ada Lovelace

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Amen sister. And there is nothing "uncivilized" about that post.

So, the "outsider" bluewren' post is obviously accepted because it agrees with the agenda. But the "outsider" Antoine L is rejected because it disagrees with the agenda... and then added to the "ignore list", along with me... a Methodist.

Wow, how very symbolic of how some read the Bible & The Book of Discipline.

I don't think anyone is an outsider in this section. I certainly hope not because the Methodist churches I've attended throughout my life welcome everyone, and do not segregate people by outsider and insider status. This graciousness is extended with the expectation that those who do come into a church or participate in this section will behave respectfully towards others here and the tenets of our theology. There are pinned notes at the top of the section with a handbook and other useful information about what Methodists believe for those who are interested in posting here but unaware, along with the Statement of Faith, the results of the poll about discussions regarding homosexuality (with the strong majority voting yes), and house rules. It states, "In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against it's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic."

AntoineL's latest posts here appear to have been deleted. I don't know whether they were uncivilized or not, but I have read posts of hers that simply were not conducive to a productive conversation. You can disagree with others and still present your viewpoints in a courteous way that encourages an edifying dialogue, or you can belligerently soapbox and shout and make reasonable people realize it's futile to engage with you. "And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." The ignore feature is a wise one, and it's good for it to be utilized when needed.
 
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circuitrider

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Standfordella,

For the sake of different groups on Christian Forums not just attacking each other, there are rules about teaching doctrine in a forum related to a church denomination you don't belong to.

So I don't pop into the Baptist forum and tell them they should baptize infants. And Baptists (and other non-Methodists) aren't supposed to jump into this forum and tell Methodists and other Wesleyan Christians that we shouldn't believe like Methodists and Wesleyan Christians.

Also as Wesleyan Christians are very much a minority in a larger forum that seems to have far more conservatives evangelicals and Calvinists, we often find persons who aren't from our faith traditions jumping in and attacking us here.

Some rules and protections are warranted.
 
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Marius27

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Hmm, an ultra conservative in the Messianic forum declared me and my views Satanic for disagreeing with his view of gays, and believing Jesus said gays are born that way. Meanwhile, he rejects the Trinity. Another guy is pretty much yelling at me for my beliefs.

Why does this topic bring out so much hate among conservatives? Honestly the nastiest discussions I've ever had with conservatives have all been on this subject. It's like they have a deep psychological need to despise gays or anyone who supports them.
 
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Dave-W

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One should never let personal distaste dictate to whom and how we preach the gospel.

As one preacher said: God called us to be fishers of men. One thing about fishing - you clean the fish AFTER you catch them and not before.
 
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Destiny2015

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This entire discussion is part of the reason - a small reason, but part of the reason regardless - that I'm one foot out the door of the UMC. If the official stance is that homosexuality is a sin, yet Methodists aren't free to voice that opinion when it comes up, I'd say that's a problem. And what happens if/when that stance is changed? Are those of us with a traditional view on marriage no longer welcome?

By the way - I think that also answers the thread title. Lots of us don't like activities that were previously declared sins declared not sins. And probably more of us don't like being called bigots simply for having a belief.

And in case anyone's going to jump on me for arguing doctrine in WP, I was confirmed Methodist and am officially a member of a United Methodist congregation, although I've since moved away and currently attend another denomination.
 
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circuitrider

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By the way - I think that also answers the thread title. Lots of us don't like activities that were previously declared sins declared not sins.

I get that Destiny2015. But you might also be aware that before the 1970s the currently declared stance of "incompatible with Christian teaching" wasn't in the Discipline. The belief that homosexuality is a sin by many goes back much further. But before the 1970s there wasn't an official position by the denomination.

I think the problem is declaring something as an official position that now is not supported by a large percentage of the UMC.

Basically we have a winner-take-all approach to decisions official positions. That is what is causing much of the pain.
 
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Destiny2015

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I get that Destiny2015. But you might also be aware that before the 1970s the currently declared stance of "incompatible with Christian teaching" wasn't in the Discipline. The belief that homosexuality is a sin by many goes back much further. But before the 1970s there wasn't an official position by the denomination.
Yes, I was aware. I was speaking more of a Christian teaching though, not the UMC specifically.

Basically we have a winner-take-all approach to decisions official positions. That is what is causing much of the pain.
Agreed.
 
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circuitrider

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Yes, I was aware. I was speaking more of a Christian teaching though, not the UMC specifically.

I see. Well general Christian teaching is all over the board on this one depending on your denomination and has been for quite some time.

What I'd hope to see is that you continue to have a right to your viewpoint, I continue to have a right to my viewpoint and that we would return to the day the Discipline was silent on this issue.
 
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Marius27

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By the way - I think that also answers the thread title. Lots of us don't like activities that were previously declared sins declared not sins. And probably more of us don't like being called bigots simply for having a belief.
And gays don't like being called abominations and perversions, but that doesn't stop anti-gay Christians from calling them that.

The problem that you guys aren't understanding is that not everyone considers your interpretation of the anti-gay verses as valid. They weren't written in English, yet you assume the English is 100% accurate to the original scriptures. There are a lot of questionable issues with the anti-gay verses that the anti-gay crowd just pretends don't exist.
 
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Dave-W

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yet you assume the English is 100% accurate to the original scriptures.
A huge mistake that most of the American church is guilty of.

I have heard some to so far as to say if their english bible is not 100% accurate then they cannot believe anything in it at all; so they might as well quit being a christian and leave their faith altogether.
 
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JCFantasy23

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A huge mistake that most of the American church is guilty of.

I have heard some to so far as to say if their english bible is not 100% accurate then they cannot believe anything in it at all; so they might as well quit being a christian and leave their faith altogether.

Unfortunately it's a legit concern - we can't all read the original languages or have access to the original sources. We do the best with what we can and rely on faith to find and see God in all areas of life. So sad that someone would say they would turn their back on God because of doubt with some of the modern translations. Some people also just look for reasons to turn away and explain to others why they're giving up the pretense of trying IMO, especially those who go to church just for the motions.
 
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JCFantasy23

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And in case anyone's going to jump on me for arguing doctrine in WP, I was confirmed Methodist and am officially a member of a United Methodist congregation, although I've since moved away and currently attend another denomination.

Since this has come up from different members a few times in the thread, to clarify this, only those who identify as a Methodist and have a Methodist icon can debate in the Methodist area. Likewise the same rule applies to other areas of faith - OBOB, Baptist, etc. As has been stated, this allows each denomination to have a safe home forum where they can debate and discuss issues amongst themselves. All denominations are allowed to post here in fellowship and to ask questions - but they cannot debate Methodists in their home forum. If they wish to debate a topic, they need to pick a generalized area like General Theology, etc. They can also post about topics in their own home forum depending on the Statement of Purpose their denomination forum has.
 
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circuitrider

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Since this has come up from different members a few times in the thread, to clarify this, only those who identify as a Methodist and have a Methodist icon can debate in the Methodist area. Likewise the same rule applies to other areas of faith - OBOB, Baptist, etc. As has been stated, this allows each denomination to have a safe home forum where they can debate and discuss issues amongst themselves. All denominations are allowed to post here in fellowship and to ask questions - but they cannot debate Methodists in their home forum. If they wish to debate a topic, they need to pick a generalized area like General Theology, etc. They can also post about topics in their own home forum depending on the Statement of Purpose their denomination forum has.

Thanks! I'm afraid a lot of people in the forums don't understand this. We pretty much constantly get people jumping in to debate Methodists on sexuality issues as if some how they feel obligated to jump in here and fix us. LOL
 
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Dave-W

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Unfortunately it's a legit concern - we can't all read the original languages or have access to the original sources.
No - but IMO that is why one of the main ministries Paul says are gifts to the church (Eph 4) is "teacher." Those individuals should be trained in the original languages and open that up to the rest of the congregants.
So sad that someone would say they would turn their back on God because of doubt with some of the modern translations.
It goes to this idea that even one jot or tittle out of place invalidates the entire book. And they cannot (or will not) comprehend the idea that some things just cannot be translated well.
And of course there are those who insist the KJV is the original text.
Some people also just look for reasons to turn away and explain to others why they're giving up the pretense of trying IMO, especially those who go to church just for the motions.
It probably goes deeper than that. I remember James Dobson and an astronomer friend of his discussing a meteor found in Antartica back in the early 1990s. Apparently it had originated on Mars and there were some proteins and enzymes on it. They both wished those "signs of life" were from earth because (and these were both strong believers) as they said "if this says there is life on Mars then Carl Sagan was right and there is no god."

People (even strong believers) can hitch their faith to something unbiblical or extra-biblical and get blown out of the water when that falls thru.
 
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