Full Preterism On The Rebuilding Of God's Temple

robycop3

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He has very clearly 'proved' it from the bible. The only problem is that you refuse to accept what the bible actually says, so naturally your ideas do not match up with scripture.

No, he has NOT proved it. Not one Scripture says those events HAVE happened. They all say 'WILL happen', but they CANNOT be found in history, so they HAVEN'T happened. Thus, the pret says Jesus' words were symbolic/allegorical insteada simply accepting the FACT that the fulfillment of several of Jesus' prophecies is still future.
 
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Justme

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No, he has NOT proved it. Not one Scripture says those events HAVE happened. They all say 'WILL happen', but they CANNOT be found in history, so they HAVEN'T happened. Thus, the pret says Jesus' words were symbolic/allegorical insteada simply accepting the FACT that the fulfillment of several of Jesus' prophecies is still future.
Of course they say "WILL HAPPEN" the bible was written before 70 AD. When Jesus said THIS generation... you were not in His THIS!
 
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zippy2

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I sure hope I am still alive on the day the Jews begin rebuilding the Temple. They have already laid the cornerstone and have all the materials ready. They have the garments ready, everything even their high priests. It will happen. And when it does, Preterism will fall into the dustbin of history where it belongs.
I sure hope we are all here to discuss the meaning of this historic event when it occurs.
 
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parousia70

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I sure hope I am still alive on the day the Jews begin rebuilding the Temple.


Did you recycle the Book of Hebrews when you ripped it out of your Bible, or did you just throw it in the trash?


They have already laid the cornerstone and have all the materials ready. They have the garments ready, everything even their high priests.

The have no High Priests.
Nor can they. EVER.

There is no Human alive today who can trace his lineage back to Aaron, which the LAW REQUIRES he be able to verify.

And even if they could find one who could, the bible's rules of defilement for priests---such as prohibitions of contact with graveyards (Leviticus 10:6, Leviticus 21,Ezekiel 44:20, Ezekiel 44:25) and various types of marriage (Leviticus 21:6-7)---would disqualify that person and their children, grandchildren etc...from the priestly lineage. So, there is no way that any such group of people will ever be restored.

What is it that frightens you so much about preterism anyway?
 
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Justme

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I sure hope I am still alive on the day the Jews begin rebuilding the Temple. They have already laid the cornerstone and have all the materials ready. They have the garments ready, everything even their high priests. It will happen. And when it does, Preterism will fall into the dustbin of history where it belongs.
I sure hope we are all here to discuss the meaning of this historic event when it occurs.

what do you need a new temple for? What did the old temple not fulfill in the bible?

Justme
 
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robycop3

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Did you recycle the Book of Hebrews when you ripped it out of your Bible, or did you just throw it in the trash?




The have no High Priests.
Nor can they. EVER.

There is no Human alive today who can trace his lineage back to Aaron, which the LAW REQUIRES he be able to verify.

And even if they could find one who could, the bible's rules of defilement for priests---such as prohibitions of contact with graveyards (Leviticus 10:6, Leviticus 21,Ezekiel 44:20, Ezekiel 44:25) and various types of marriage (Leviticus 21:6-7)---would disqualify that person and their children, grandchildren etc...from the priestly lineage. So, there is no way that any such group of people will ever be restored.

What is it that frightens you so much about preterism anyway?

It's doubtful the High Priest of Jesus' time was a descendant of Aaron's. Several HPs were appointed by the Greex while they ruled the Jews. Antiochus IV Epiphanes, for example, appointed one.

remember, this won't TRULY be a temple of God, although the Orthodox jews and mosta the world will think so. The Jews will have invented ways to skirt the law, same as preterists try to invent ways to skirt history.
 
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zippy2

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what do you need a new temple for? What did the old temple not fulfill in the bible?

Justme

'I' don't need it at all. But the Bible says it will be built and it is part of the redemption of Israel.
Why are you so afraid of it? (not you personally, just most Christians) There always seems to be such anger
when the subject comes up. I do not understand it. This is between the Jews and God.
 
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parousia70

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parousia70

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'I' don't need it at all. But the Bible says it will be built
Chapter and verse of where the Bible says this?

and it is part of the redemption of Israel.

Again, chapter and verse?

Why are you so afraid of it? (not you personally, just most Christians) There always seems to be such anger
when the subject comes up. I do not understand it. This is between the Jews and God.

Have you not read the Book of Hebrews?
 
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Justme

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'I' don't need it at all. But the Bible says it will be built and it is part of the redemption of Israel.
Why are you so afraid of it? (not you personally, just most Christians) There always seems to be such anger
when the subject comes up. I do not understand it. This is between the Jews and God.

Where in the bible does it tell us a temple will be built in Jerusalem to replace the one destroyed in 70 AD? The boible tells us the abomination will appear in the Holy Place..
Here Hebrews 9 tells us Jesus is in the MOST HOLY PLACE. That room is next to the Holy Place so how can an 'abomination' get in there? If it did how would some mortal in Judea ever see it? Wouldn't Luke's explanation be easier for us to understand... the army that surrounded Jerusalem in 66 AD.... then one or a few of the soldiers broke into the temple and mocked God.

There was no HOLY PLACE after 70 AD because it was destroyed in 70 AD. There was no Judea to flee from either because it ceased to exist as a district in 70 AD also. I don't need a new temple for the abomination, it fits perfectly as is.

That abomination had to appear within 1290 days of the ceasing of the sacrifices as well, The sacrifices ended with the destruction of the temple wjhere they were held..again 70 AD.
Dan 12:
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days

Justme
 
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robycop3

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Where in the bible does it tell us a temple will be built in Jerusalem to replace the one destroyed in 70 AD? The boible tells us the abomination will appear in the Holy Place..
Here Hebrews 9 tells us Jesus is in the MOST HOLY PLACE. That room is next to the Holy Place so how can an 'abomination' get in there? If it did how would some mortal in Judea ever see it? Wouldn't Luke's explanation be easier for us to understand... the army that surrounded Jerusalem in 66 AD.... then one or a few of the soldiers broke into the temple and mocked God.

There was no HOLY PLACE after 70 AD because it was destroyed in 70 AD. There was no Judea to flee from either because it ceased to exist as a district in 70 AD also. I don't need a new temple for the abomination, it fits perfectly as is.

That abomination had to appear within 1290 days of the ceasing of the sacrifices as well, The sacrifices ended with the destruction of the temple wjhere they were held..again 70 AD.
Dan 12:
11 “From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days

Justme

But...DID the AOD appear? Of course not!

Remember what the AOD will be...the 'beast' and his deputy the miracle-working false prophet entering the temple, setting up a statue of the beast, which the FP will supernaturally make speak.the beast will then declare himself to be God, while the FP will command all to worship the beast & his image. Soon after this, the "marka the beast" will be issued.
 
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parousia70

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But...DID the AOD appear?

According to Luke, it sure did:

Compare THIS:
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

TO THIS:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

AND TO THIS:
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

These three SYNONYMOUS , PARALLEL passages speak of the EXACT SAME EVENT.

ALL 3 speak of the Same WHEN YOU SEE, the Same DESOLATION, and the Same TIME to FLEE JERUSALEM.

Separating Luke 21 from Matthew 24 & Mark 13 is unscriptural, man made and non apostolic in origin.

Parallel passages can NOT be interpreted to have POLAR OPPOSITE meanings from one another. Hermeneutics 101

Remember what the AOD will be...the 'beast' and his deputy the miracle-working false prophet entering the temple, setting up a statue of the beast, which the FP will supernaturally make speak.the beast will then declare himself to be God, while the FP will command all to worship the beast & his image

100% man made poppycock.
You can show NO scripture teaching what you claim about the AoD.
 
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robycop3

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According to Luke, it sure did:

Compare THIS:
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

TO THIS:
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

AND TO THIS:
14 “So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

These three SYNONYMOUS , PARALLEL passages speak of the EXACT SAME EVENT.

ALL 3 speak of the Same WHEN YOU SEE, the Same DESOLATION, and the Same TIME to FLEE JERUSALEM.

Separating Luke 21 from Matthew 24 & Mark 13 is unscriptural, man made and non apostolic in origin.

Parallel passages can NOT be interpreted to have POLAR OPPOSITE meanings from one another. Hermeneutics 101



100% man made poppycock.
You can show NO scripture teaching what you claim about the AoD.

Yes, the pret interp is man-made poppycock. Let SCRIPTURE speak:

Daniel 9:26-27, HCSB:""26 ... The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed. 27 He [=the prince, Antichrist ] will make a firm covenant with many for one week [the 70th week], but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple, until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.""

Neither Nero nor any Roman leader did ALL those things.

Daniel 11:31-32, HCSB:""His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will be strong and take action.""

The Romans did NOT abolish AND set up! They simply destroyed the temple, seeking gold.

Daniel 12:11, HCSB:""From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.""

There was NO historical event of any significance 1290 days after the Romans destroyed the temple.

Now, just WHAT does 'abomination' mean in the Bible, in various versions? It always refers to IDOLATRY, or an extremely-sinful practice that was almost-always limited to idolators, such as inappropriate behavior with animals or sacrificing one's child to an idol. the Asherah phallic symbols and images of Baal or Molech were considered abominations.

Mark 13;14, ESV:""But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.""

Read and consider that verse CAREFULLY! "LET THE READER UNSERSTAND!" The AOD is an IMAGE OR STATUE! The AOD is an "it", not a "he". Now, WHO makes the AOD?

Rev. 13:14-15, NASV:""14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.""

So we see the false prophet tells the people to make an image of his boss, which he supernaturally causes to speak.
Now, plainly and obviously, these events have NOT yet happened! They did NOT occur when the Romans destroyed the temple; they are STILL FUTURE!

Now, I won't deny a possible double fulfillment of these prophecies. Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple, as well as sacrificing a pig upon the altar, but Jesus spoke of the actual AOD as being in the future, so Antiochus' desecration was NOT "THE" AOD.

BUT...the TRUE AOD did NOT occur in 70 AD!
 
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Justme

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Yes, the pret interp is man-made poppycock. Let SCRIPTURE speak:

Daniel 9:26-27, HCSB:""26 ... The people of the coming prince will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come with a flood, and until the end there will be war; desolations are decreed. 27 He [=the prince, Antichrist ] will make a firm covenant with many for one week [the 70th week], but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and offering. And the abomination of desolation will be on a wing of the temple, until the decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator.""

Neither Nero nor any Roman leader did ALL those things.

Daniel 11:31-32, HCSB:""His forces will rise up and desecrate the temple fortress. They will abolish the daily sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation. 32 With flattery he will corrupt those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will be strong and take action.""

The Romans did NOT abolish AND set up! They simply destroyed the temple, seeking gold.

Daniel 12:11, HCSB:""From the time the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.""

There was NO historical event of any significance 1290 days after the Romans destroyed the temple.

Now, just WHAT does 'abomination' mean in the Bible, in various versions? It always refers to IDOLATRY, or an extremely-sinful practice that was almost-always limited to idolators, such as inappropriate behavior with animals or sacrificing one's child to an idol. the Asherah phallic symbols and images of Baal or Molech were considered abominations.

Mark 13;14, ESV:""But when you see the abomination of desolation standing where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.""

Read and consider that verse CAREFULLY! "LET THE READER UNSERSTAND!" The AOD is an IMAGE OR STATUE! The AOD is an "it", not a "he". Now, WHO makes the AOD?

Rev. 13:14-15, NASV:""14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed.""

So we see the false prophet tells the people to make an image of his boss, which he supernaturally causes to speak.
Now, plainly and obviously, these events have NOT yet happened! They did NOT occur when the Romans destroyed the temple; they are STILL FUTURE!

Now, I won't deny a possible double fulfillment of these prophecies. Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up a statue of Zeus in the temple, as well as sacrificing a pig upon the altar, but Jesus spoke of the actual AOD as being in the future, so Antiochus' desecration was NOT "THE" AOD.

BUT...the TRUE AOD did NOT occur in 70 AD!

I think the full meal deal is just too much for you to grasp at one time.
So one tiny bit at a time.... did the armies surround Jerusalem or not ?????
 
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robycop3

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I think the full meal deal is just too much for you to grasp at one time.
So one tiny bit at a time.... did the armies surround Jerusalem or not ?????

i have no prob with the 'whole thing'. I readily admit SOME of the prophecies were fulfilled. But the 'main events' have NOT yet occurred, and NO amount of pret squirming, attempting to re-write history, or Scripture-twisting can change that FACT.
 
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Justme

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i have no prob with the 'whole thing'. I readily admit SOME of the prophecies were fulfilled. But the 'main events' have NOT yet occurred, and NO amount of pret squirming, attempting to re-write history, or Scripture-twisting can change that FACT.
You can handle it but you ignore the very first question???? Well, you sure have me convinced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO wonder you remain ignorant of certain biblical meaning when you are so obsessed with ignoring what the bible says.
So start here;;;
Did the armies surround Jerusalem or not?
Justme
 
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robycop3

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You can handle it but you ignore the very first question???? Well, you sure have me convinced!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO wonder you remain ignorant of certain biblical meaning when you are so obsessed with ignoring what the bible says.
So start here;;;
Did the armies surround Jerusalem or not?
Justme

Yes, they did.

Did Jesus return soon afterwards? If you say 'yes', please provide PROOF.
 
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parousia70

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Yes, they did.

Did Jesus return soon afterwards? If you say 'yes', please provide PROOF.

I realize you require non Biblical "proof" to prove to you what the Bible says, But I'm going to stick to scripture, for it is all the proof you should require, if you believe Jesus can be trusted anyway....

The answer is in the very passage cited:
Luke 21:20-22
20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 22 For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

Jesus said (which should be enough proof for any Christian) that the time of the surrounding of Jerusalem by armies, which you agree ALREADY HAPPENED, was the time when "all things written would be fulfilled".

You say:
"No! Jesus was wrong! All things written were NOT fulfilled at that time, even though Jesus said they would be."

Also Roby, Who do you think the Chief Cornerstone was who came and destroyed the Chief Priests and Pharisees, in the event that Jesus Himself called "The Coming of the Lord"?:

Matt 21:37-45

37 Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ 38 But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ 39 So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killedhim.

40 “Therefore, when the lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease hisvineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

42 Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?

43 “Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it. 44 And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

45 Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they understood that He was speaking of them.


No amount of 21st century Newspaper headlines or TV News Stories you can come up with negates these plain words of Jesus in scripture.
 
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