Should Christians take up arms ?

mikedsjr

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98, my guilt I have is being more honest with you and listening to the reminders from you how valuable life really is. I agree with your stance there. My stance is only due to the other person with his all or nothing stance, as if to say there is not one case lawful for Christians to protect with force turning to death of another person due to protection. Military, police, security guard or whomever. "Love your neighbor..." is a Mosaic law. So they were equally within this command. So was it wrong for Israelites to kill by God's command, no matter what was in the heart of the Israelite?
 
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98cwitr

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As God had commanded and decreed, thus it is so. Did he use the "men of judgement" to carry out the judgement that was prophesied 400 years prior? Yes. But don't you think that God would use evil to combat evil? Use blood thristy men to kill blood thirsty men? Since we're all His creation, I don't think God would have us Christians contradict the Law He set before us. Rather, we would use the lawless to destroy the lawless. It gives meaning to the phrase "A house divided cannot stand." This is how the devil loses. Check out Ezekiel 9.

We are called to more though. To flee the thirst for blood and worldliness, and to uphold righteousness.

I fail to do so every day.
 
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RDKirk

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God has stipulated His principle: "'Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked?' declares the Sovereign LORD. 'Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?'"
(Ezekiel 18:23)

He repeated Himself for emphasis: "Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways!'" (Ezekiel 33:11)

"For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." (John 3:17)

It is not the Lord's desire, it is not His perfect will for the wicked to die. If it grieves the Lord for even the wicked to die, if it is not His plan to condemn them, how can I be so arrogant as to presume it's righteous for me to do so?

The death of the wicked is not God's desire, it is Satan's desire. When a "good" man kills an "evil" man, that is not a win for the Lord--that is a win for Satan.

Yet, in this fallen world, God gives man permission to do that which is not His perfect will. For instance, God permits divorce because the hearts of men are hard, but He still hates divorce. Every variance from what God desires most is sin, not righteousness; it is tragedy, not holiness.

I have spent a career in the military, and I have the blood of hundreds of women and children on my account--I've seen the their bodies pulled from the rubble of my handiwork. I've carried a gun, in uniform and out. Would I kill someone who was trying to harm my family? Could I end the life of wicked man? Yes, I could.

But don't write any headlines for me. Don't call me a hero and don't pat me on the back. I would never classify anything about such a situation as righteous, but as a whole sorry, sad, unholy, unrighteous mess in a fallen world.

That would be grievous to God and cannot be anything but grievous to me.
 
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Goodbook

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yes amen.

If we've killed someone, like Moses killed the egyptian, or mothers had an abortion, we all have to account for it if we haven't repented before God on Judgement day. It doesn't matter if they were innocent or evil. All life is in the blood.

When Cain murdered Abel, Abel's blood cried out from the ground. He had to be a fugitive. He was marked, even though God protected him, he had to be sent away.

The mark of a christian is that we COULD kill someone but we don't. We have mercy.
 
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Goodbook

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I wouldn't want the job of killing people.
I'd rather live and enjoy my life and be at peace than be a hitman. And I don't believe christians are hitmen/assasins for God.

just saying.

Soldiers who defend, yes, but attackers, no. If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. And we are in NT times now.
 
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Bluelion

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As God had commanded and decreed, thus it is so. Did he use the "men of judgement" to carry out the judgement that was prophesied 400 years prior? Yes. But don't you think that God would use evil to combat evil? Use blood thristy men to kill blood thirsty men? Since we're all His creation, I don't think God would have us Christians contradict the Law He set before us. Rather, we would use the lawless to destroy the lawless. It gives meaning to the phrase "A house divided cannot stand." This is how the devil loses. Check out Ezekiel 9.

We are called to more though. To flee the thirst for blood and worldliness, and to uphold righteousness.

I fail to do so every day.

sorry but when Jesus said the house divide He was saying satan does not fight satan. satans house is not divide or else it could not rule the world. it is brought down because they take on The Throne of God.

God did not use blood thirst people to take Israel, He let that generation die out and raised up a righteous one Joshua was certainly a man of God. God fought for them knocking down the walls of Jericho, and then they slaughter the men. Was it righteous, you bet because God said to do it it was His judgement He had already past on those people it was a Good thing. It was Justice.
 
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twin1954

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As a lifetime martial artist I can tell you that there are basically three types of self/ family defense: Warding where you block or deflect the attack and let the attacker know that you are in control of the situation; hurting where you disable the attacker so that they are unable to hurt you and killing where you take the life of the attacker before he takes yours or your family.

The thing is that which to use is a matter of a split second decision. You have no time to think about it you must react immediately. If you take the wrong decision then yours or your families life is forfeit.

Also there exists now those who attack without warning and you must be prepared to do the most unthinkable things to defend yourself against them. Taking out eyes and crushing throats for example. If you are not prepared to go that far you have already lost. Be sure that those who attack are willing to go that far.
 
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98cwitr

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sorry but when Jesus said the house divide He was saying satan does not fight satan. satans house is not divide or else it could not rule the world. it is brought down because they take on The Throne of God.

God did not use blood thirst people to take Israel, He let that generation die out and raised up a righteous one Joshua was certainly a man of God. God fought for them knocking down the walls of Jericho, and then they slaughter the men. Was it righteous, you bet because God said to do it it was His judgement He had already past on those people it was a Good thing. It was Justice.

You're right:

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

But realize that in verse 25 Christ says, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined," and unless you think that Satan's "kingdom" will not be ruined then it stands to reason it will be divided. I can prove it to you:

When we are worldly, we are part of satan's kingdom and a slave to sin. By salvation and God's grace, we are removed from that kingdom and joined to his. If that's not the definition of division Im not sure what is ^_^ It's God doing the dividing, and that's my point.

As to the righteousness of Joshua's army, I can point you to Joshua 7, where they immediately sinned against God regarding the plunder. I'd agree though, it was a form of justice, but not delivered and executed freely it seems to me.
 
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Bluelion

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You're right:

25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

But realize that in verse 25 Christ says, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined," and unless you think that Satan's "kingdom" will not be ruined then it stands to reason it will be divided. I can prove it to you:

When we are worldly, we are part of satan's kingdom and a slave to sin. By salvation and God's grace, we are removed from that kingdom and joined to his. If that's not the definition of division Im not sure what is ^_^ It's God doing the dividing, and that's my point.

As to the righteousness of Joshua's army, I can point you to Joshua 7, where they immediately sinned against God regarding the plunder. I'd agree though, it was a form of justice, but not delivered and executed freely it seems to me.

well shucks :) I guess that is one way to look at it, or the church is raptures so all that is left is satans people and 144,000 Jews which get saved during the tribulation.

As far as Joshua well Moses and Abraham sinned to yet they were counted as righteous, we sin and yet we are righteous in Christ. :) so you could look at that way. :p
 
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Righttruth

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It fit the point that was made. If God protects, why the army?

Luke 13
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

That was for fox, not for a believer!
 
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John Robie

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Luke 13
32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

That was for fox, not for a believer!
I don't understand how you think that relates to my point. Did you quote the correct post?
 
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