This is a great conversation but this comment really stopped me. Bear with me....
"I disagree strongly. Christ (God) cannot abide within a person who sins and or rebels against Him (because He is holy);"
So, what I read is if I have the HS (God) inside me because I am saved then commit some sin (say lust) and I am unrepentant, then the HS (God) leaves me because I have "thrown away my salvation"? Is there a time limit on my repentance before he leaves?...Because it seems to me that if "Christ (God) cannot abide within a person who sins and or rebels against Him (because He is holy);" then he would leave immediately. That brings up 2 problems for me.
1. My God does not flee in the presence of sin; just the opposite, sin flees in the presence of God; hence my (eventual) repentance.
2. If the HS (God) really does leave in the presence of my unrepentant sin, and then later I repent does that mean I have to be born again "again" since the HS is no longer in me? Or is it even possible for the HS to reside in me after that? In which case there are a lot of us in big trouble.
There is a huge difference between a believer choosing to continue down the road of evil for a while (or for good) versus say a believer slipping up into a sin (Whereby they would confess and forsake such a sin shortly). One person is hardening their heart against God and the other person's heart is remaining soft.
What I meant is that God will not condone a person's willful rebelliion against Him if they decide to not repent or confess their sin. For he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy (Proverbs 28:13). For if we willfully sin after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin (Hebrews 10:26). God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.(2 Peter 3:9) God is not a respecter of persons (
Acts 10:34). Just because a person believes, it does not change anything in regards to their sin. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden and they fell away from Him because of Adam's sin. Yes, God may not leave a person immediately after a person sins, but only God can know a person's future whereby they may repent or not (with a Godly sorrow). For if one is not truly sorry about their sin and does not desire to stop, then they have a worldly sorrow and they really love their sin more than they love God. God in no way can justify such a decision and live within a person if that is their new choice. Remember, Saul once had the Spirit of God, but the Lord left Him and was given an evil spirit instead. David said to God not to take His Holy Spirit from him when he confessed of his sin of adultery and murder. Ananais and Sapphira died immediately when they lied to the Holy Spirit. They once had God living within them, but once they had chose to do evil, Go left them for good because their sin was very serious (And a great fear fell upon the church and all who heard it). Please take note that if a believer dies and goes to Heaven, fear is not what they would be experiencing. For Jesus tells us Himself that we are not to fear the one who can destroy the body, but fear the One who can destroy both body and soul in Gehenna, i.e. the Lake of Fire (Matthew 10:28). Also, Judas was Jesus' familar friend according to OT prophecy. Judas fell away because of transgression. Here is a quote from another poster here by, "LoveofTruth" (In regards to Judas): He says I quote,
"
Matthew 10:2-4
"2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;
3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;
4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot..."
Notice that Judas was called an apostle here. God does not consider a person an apostle of Jesus and give them power to cast out devils and raise the dead, if they are a devil, and not saved.
"5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
Notice again, the TWElVE Jesus
sent forth. So all the commands he gives are for the twelve, not just the eleven and one devil excluded. To try and make the text say that Judas was not one of them is classic biblical twisting. I have seen some try to escape the clear consequence of this whole section because they squirm and get frustrated how clearly it rebukes their false eternal security view and their ideas about Judas. Remember this is at the beginning of Judas ministry, not at the end when he was hardening to Jesus and when he was about to
betray Jesus.
Matthew 10:6-9
"6 But go rather to the
lost sheep of the house of Israel.
7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.
8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,"
Notice here that Jesus told the twelve apostles ( Judas included to go to the
LOST SHEEP. This is significant because Jesus called them all
his sheep, and sent them as sheep to the lost sheep, showing that the twelve
were his sheep and saved and had eternal life, as he said before his sheep hear his voice and he knows them and gives them eternal life. And Jesus said specific things here about them being his sheep lets read,
Matthew 10:16
"Behold, I send you [all twelve Judas included] forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."
This is so clear and a thundering verse to tear down the strongholds of the eternal security doctrine. The weapon of our God are might through him to the tearing down of strongholds. Jesus sent them ( the twelve, Judas included)
as sheep, to the lost sheep. Showing that the twelve apostles ( Judas included) were all his sheep. read this again for clarity,
John 10:27-28
"27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; "
This is clear, all the twelve heard his voice (Judas included) and all twelve followed him (Judas included) and all twelve were given eternal life (Judas included). How much clearer can it be?
Lets read on in Matthew 10
Matthew 10:12-13
"12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you."
So all the twelve (JUDAS INCLUDED) had the peace of God to give to others, Judas included. And more,
Matthew 10:20
"For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."
the twelve (Judas included) had the Spirit of the father speaking in them when needed."
Source:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/judas-was-once-saved-and-lost-it.7898508/
In addition, who was Jesus speaking to in Matthew 6:15? The believer or the unbeliever? If Jesus was speaking to the believer then that means Jesus believes that a believer can not be forgiven by the Father if they do not forgive. If Jesus was speaking to the unbeliever, it would do them no good because they would first have to accept Christ in order to be saved. Forgiving others would not save them in any way. They would need to repent of their sins and accept the LORD first.
So yes, it is possible for God to live within a person for a while and then leave them. Our free will is not taken away once we believed. We still have the choice to follow God or not to follow Him every day. That is why the Scriptures say, choose this day in whom ye will serve to the Israelites.
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