Worried for the Church...

Leevo

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Thank you. It is more than just homosexuality. A lot more but it seems it is all we ever discuss. We should be discussing more than homosexuality and politics. I completely understand addressing it should there be a question but it is sad that it seems to be all anybody is interested in. In the Church and out. And for such a small forum, it seems obsessive from perspective. That's all.

I understand. Note, I have just returned to CF and the RCC as a whole within the last week after a roughly 4 month break. I think I have visited here and there but for the most part, I was AWOL. I think it should be discussed, as it is an issue of prominence, but you are right, there is more out there to discuss. I created this thread due to some concerns I had, which I have received comfort for, from the first few responses by you and others. I still have the slight worry that will probably always be there, but I will take solace in knowing that for now, and hopefully forever (as the church cannot change doctrine... officially) the church will be one of the last beacons of hope in a lost dying world. I am glad to be a part of it for sure.
 
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Michie

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Oh I understand the reason you posted it for sure. I have been struggling with things since my father in law died. Questioning a lot myself. So I get it. The thread veered off so much into other areas and I'm sorry for that. My fault. It has left me with more questions than answers though! But I'm glad you feel better. If you believe what the Church says about herself and you think that was the promise Jesus made to the RCC alone, then everything should be fine. I really can't tell what people believe here anymore! :p


I understand. Note, I have just returned to CF and the RCC as a whole within the last week after a roughly 4 month break. I think I have visited here and there but for the most part, I was AWOL. I think it should be discussed, as it is an issue of prominence, but you are right, there is more out there to discuss. I created this thread due to some concerns I had, which I have received comfort for, from the first few responses by you and others. I still have the slight worry that will probably always be there, but I will take solace in knowing that for now, and hopefully forever (as the church cannot change doctrine... officially) the church will be one of the last beacons of hope in a lost dying world. I am glad to be a part of it for sure.
 
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Leevo

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Oh I understand the reason you posted it for sure. I have been struggling with things since my father in law died. Questioning a lot myself. So I get it. The thread veered off so much into other areas though and I'm sorry for that. My fault. It has left me with more questions than answers though! But I'm glad you feel better. If you believe what the Church says about herself and you think that was the promise Jesus made to the RCC alone, then everything should be fine. I really can't tell what people believe here anymore! :p

I hear ya. It did indeed veer off. I think everyone was trying to help but I think we got off topic a bit haha! Thanks for your advice though!
 
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Michie

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Glad it helped! ;)
I hear ya. It did indeed veer off. I think everyone was trying to help but I think we got off topic a bit haha! Thanks for your advice though!
 
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Miss Shelby

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Oh goodness, you know Walgreen's got in trouble for telling ppl to "be well". Yep, somebody was offended because they weren't well and was upset a Walgreen's employee told the to be well. PC world where everybody's offended..
Are you kidding me?? I mean it always kinda irritated me when they said 'be well' and when they didn't say it I didn't wonder what happened. But for the love of sweet sanity....
 
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The workers of iniquity and of that ancient serpent are manifold in deceptions. They are the most vocal puppets of Satan, his shadow creeping across the masses. Disheartening as it is, the devils rampant growth in his search for victims to devour is becoming more evident each day. So when we speak out against this, it is not judgment or prejudice, but an attempt to fight the good fight of faith. Shining our light recedes the darkness, and allows those with eyes dimmed, to see the beacon of our salvation.

"Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever."

Love, charity, edification, all beautiful things are being kept away not by those who disagree with sin, but those that agree. When they remove that stumbling block, we can help those in temptation; building them up in the faith.

But when we become content on letting poison drip into the fabric of our being, what awaits but death?
 
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pdudgeon

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Thank you. It is more than just homosexuality. A lot more but it seems it is all we ever discuss. We should be discussing more than homosexuality and politics. I completely understand addressing it should there be a question but it is sad that it seems to be all anybody is interested in. In the Church and out. And for such a small forum, it seems obsessive from perspective. That's all.

if you want to focus on one subject, then that is your right to do so.
but to reiterate, yesterday OBOB had 30 active threads for you to post in.
we have provided the diversity that you are looking for, and it is here, right at your fingertips.

if we were talking about 30 flavors of ice cream, or 30 ways to fix chicken, THAT would be an obsession.

this thread was a legitimate question and concern in these times,
and we addressed all sides of that question and more besides.
we've also gone to 11 pages now, and the thread hasn't had to receive any mod action yet.
(a fact for which the mods are probably grateful.)

thank you for your concern, but i think we have this issue under control.
 
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GoingByzantine

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Pope St. John Paul II called western culture a "culture of death," and Pope Benedict XVI called it a "dictatorship of relativism." So the Church still sees western culture as dominated by evil. And it's still true that "the divine religion of Jesus Christ, that provider of mutual charity among citizens, peoples and nations, did not govern, as it should, private, domestic and public life."

I think the Pope's might be onto something in regards to Western culture. Every year Western culture becomes more secular and increasingly immoral. Turn on any pop station, and 9 out of 10 songs will be about sexual intercourse. Watch any modern television show and you will be treated to scenes of drug use, violence, promiscuity and discrimination. Members of parliamentary bodies across the Western World craft laws that harm religion and promote secularism. The West also has many virtuous traits, but these have become increasingly hidden in recent years.

The East might have a lot of poverty, violence and despotism...but at least a culture of life still exists in most places.
 
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pdudgeon

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We know with certainty that the church will never fail. "The Gates of Hell shall not prevail" but catholic news agencies many faithful catholics are concerned it will... where is their faith?

They seem to suggest that somehow suddenly out of nowhere that Rome is no longer the Church of Christ and that it is somehow able to fall to the gates of hell.

Can we safely ignore these people as being decieved... that of course would be easy to do if it were not for the fact they are strong and faithful catholics and their concern is shared in the teachings of the church herself... so if these so called catholics say that the church can suddenly fall pray to the gates of hell what in effect they are saying is that Rome is no longer the Church of Christ.... and if the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church then we can be sure the church still exists... if therefore as some catholics say it still exists but not in the see of Rome.... where does it exist?

Some may say the sspx or some other sect. But these catholics who say this still remain in the catholic parishes faithful to rome.... i am confused

being confused about the end times is not unusual. neither is being concerned unusual.
the church hasn't changed but the world has.
and since we still live in this world it would be a natural reaction to be concerned that what is happening in the world
that we have no control over would affect our lives.

in that we are no different than the disciples.
Some of them were fishermen, and well aquainted with waves and water.
And yet at one point they were concerned for their lives when during a storm
the waves came up and their boat was in danger of being swamped.

they could not see a way out of their immediate situation, but Jesus (who was sleeping)
had the assurance necessary to speak to the wind and the waves. and at His word they
calmed down, and all was well.

So yes, things might look bad now, and they might get worse.
but the ending of this book has already been written.

God wins!
 
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Armoured

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You had me to here;
There are good pop songs that promote christian values that simply do not get promted

to be fair, I can't think of any of the top of my head. I find pretty much all "Christian rock" that I've heard overly saccharine and contrived. Similar to the "cool" 48 year old youth leader who wears a backwards baseball cap and tries using modern slang. IMHO.
 
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benedictaoo

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I don't claim to know everything but I know what I know based on my experience entering the church and what is taught in RCIA as I experienced. Just as valid as any wild story out there. That's the thing about RCIA in my experience, a bunch of do's and dont's. Nothing about God having breasts, etc. the inquirer bases their decision to move foward based on what the faith teaches and expects every Catholic to practice.
Look, I don't have the time nor desire to break everything down and explain it you in little bitty pieces. You assume every RCIA is going to be Orthodox in everything that is taught. Let's just say, not always. Half of them are run by lay converts and are very inexperienced and uninformed. I promise you we will see liberal ideas being pushed in RCIAs. We will in see seminaries liberal ideas being pushed. It won't be every RCIA and seminary everywhere but it will happen, its happening now. The devil will attack this Church on every front it can. The devil has long tried to attack from within. You have got to allow yourself to learn things outside you own prism.
 
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topcare

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But if certain Catholics are worried that the church of rome may err in face of pressure and the faith itself confirms this could happen by a "religious deception" and that it is "good to take flight" and bad to "stay in compliance" so to where would the faithfull flee if not to the Church that remains faithfull... where is it?

It could be Eastern Orthodox, who knows
 
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Michie

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This thread is all over the place. One second, the Church is protected and the other second it's up on the air. I'm not impressed. Glad the OP got the info he needed before it went off the rails.
It could be Eastern Orthodox, who knows
 
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thecolorsblend

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Thanks be to God for his infinite mercy.

However it doesnt really address my post. In effect it says have faith in Christ (well yes i agree)

But if certain Catholics are worried that the church of rome may err in face of pressure and the faith itself confirms this could happen by a "religious deception" and that it is "good to take flight" and bad to "stay in compliance" so to where would the faithfull flee if not to the Church that remains faithfull... where is it?

As far as i can see... its still rome... or am i decieved?
Don't take this as me being dismissive but I see no real indication of change. And honestly if Caesar using Christians as tiki torches in his garden and chew toys for his lions wasn't enough to force the Church to change directions, why would anything else work?
 
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Michie

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Your hostility is noted. I disagree. The activity here has dropped. David has even mentioned it among others. It's no wonder when people selectively read posts and start attacking. Great witness. Who wouldn't want to hang out? lol!
if you want to focus on one subject, then that is your right to do so.
but to reiterate, yesterday OBOB had 30 active threads for you to post in.
we have provided the diversity that you are looking for, and it is here, right at your fingertips.

if we were talking about 30 flavors of ice cream, or 30 ways to fix chicken, THAT would be an obsession.

this thread was a legitimate question and concern in these times,
and we addressed all sides of that question and more besides.
we've also gone to 11 pages now, and the thread hasn't had to receive any mod action yet.
(a fact for which the mods are probably grateful.)

thank you for your concern, but i think we have this issue under control.
 
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Jared R

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I think it is an unhealthy obsession. If it isn't homosexuality it is liberal/ progressives versus the conservatives/ traditionalists. All come with the same issues. The faith just seems to be the vehicle to ride on like an afterthought. Is Catholicism/ Christianity really this vapid? On CF it appears so. At least when I was posting articles there was actually various things to read and discuss. I have no plans to get back into that routine but this is what we are left with? Really? This place is damn sad anymore.

It's a difficult balance to strike. I will admit that I have been thinking of myself more and more as a traditionalist, where in the past I didn't think extra labels beyond "Catholic" were helpful. There are a lot of issues in the Church that I care about, but there is definitely the danger of myopia. The normal life of prayer and faith can be swallowed up in all this.

There are two extreme reactions I think should be avoided. The one is apathy, which doesn't believe anything is worth fighting for, and the other is an inordinate activism, which makes us think we have to take the world on our shoulders. I think I've said in previous conversations, I am more convinced than ever that God is totally in control of everything. The enemies of Christ can't do anything to the Church that He doesn't permit. I'm not saying we should be silent at these attacks, but at the same time the ordinary, normal spiritual life still demands our attention. We still need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, no matter what's going on around us. That's a balance I think OBOB could probably use more of. There's not a ton of discussion about prayer and the spiritual life.
 
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Michie

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Jared-
I could not agree more. You put it better than I ever could and that was basically my point. We can get so zealous in the arguments as displayed here about witness. The media giving a false one basically concerning homosexuality and then we turn around and eat our own? Seriously, that is why I said tunnel vision is never healthy. We have to be more balanced imo and I think that is one of the reasons for the slow down. We are ignoring an awful lot by focusing on just certain things and ignoring the big picture. Thanks for popping in Jared. I hope you are feeling better today. :)

It's a difficult balance to strike. I will admit that I have been thinking of myself more and more as a traditionalist, where in the past I didn't think extra labels beyond "Catholic" were helpful. There are a lot of issues in the Church that I care about, but there is definitely the danger of myopia. The normal life of prayer and faith can be swallowed up in all this.

There are two extreme reactions I think should be avoided. The one is apathy, which doesn't believe anything is worth fighting for, and the other is an inordinate activism, which makes us think we have to take the world on our shoulders. I think I've said in previous conversations, I am more convinced than ever that God is totally in control of everything. The enemies of Christ can't do anything to the Church that He doesn't permit. I'm not saying we should be silent at these attacks, but at the same time the ordinary, normal spiritual life still demands our attention. We still need to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, no matter what's going on around us. That's a balance I think OBOB could probably use more of. There's not a ton of discussion about prayer and the spiritual life.
 
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pdudgeon

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Thanks be to God for his infinite mercy.

However it doesnt really address my post. In effect it says have faith in Christ (well yes i agree)

But if certain Catholics are worried that the church of rome may err in face of pressure and the faith itself confirms this could happen by a "religious deception" and that it is "good to take flight" and bad to "stay in compliance" so to where would the faithfull flee if not to the Church that remains faithfull... where is it?

As far as i can see... its still rome... or am i decieved?

they flee to a place called Petra. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
 
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