Day 4, Proverbs Chapter 4

katerinah1947

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Proverbs 4
Everyone read Chapter 4 if it is the 4th day of the month today. Come back and give us your thoughts....Tishri1 :wave:

Hi, (And I am now making edits. I was tired. )

Good morning all. The moderator said she would help with this.
It is the fourth, I read it last night. I will give my thoughts after it is posted and before.

To me error jumps out, and it seems God makes that happen. Life as seen in Proverbs is not to me, life on earth.

To me life in the Bible is maybe life on earth sometimes, but I always translate life this way:

Life is being alive with God, after this earthly life.
Death is being alive without God, after this earthly life.

Those two changes to how I read the Bible with my human experienced mind, allow me to understand and really love the God I know better, as with those definitions, even Adam and Eve makes sense, Biblically.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 4 New International Version (NIV)
Get Wisdom at Any Cost
4 Listen, my sons, to a father’s instruction;
pay attention and gain understanding.
2 I give you sound learning,
so do not forsake my teaching.
3 For I too was a son to my father,
still tender, and cherished by my mother.
4 Then he taught me, and he said to me,
“Take hold of my words with all your heart;
keep my commands, and you will live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or turn away from them.
6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.
7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get[a] wisdom.
Though it cost all you have,[b] get understanding.
8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you;
embrace her, and she will honor you.
9 She will give you a garland to grace your head
and present you with a glorious crown.”

10 Listen, my son, accept what I say,
and the years of your life will be many.
11 I instruct you in the way of wisdom
and lead you along straight paths.
12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered;
when you run, you will not stumble.
13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go;
guard it well, for it is your life.
14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked
or walk in the way of evildoers.
15 Avoid it, do not travel on it;
turn from it and go on your way.
16 For they cannot rest until they do evil;
they are robbed of sleep till they make someone stumble.
17 They eat the bread of wickedness
and drink the wine of violence.

18 The path of the righteous is like the morning sun,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.

20 My son, pay attention to what I say;
turn your ear to my words.
21 Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart;
22 for they are life to those who find them
and health to one’s whole body.
23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for everything you do flows from it.
24 Keep your mouth free of perversity;
keep corrupt talk far from your lips.
25 Let your eyes look straight ahead;
fix your gaze directly before you.
26 Give careful thought to the[c] paths for your feet
and be steadfast in all your ways.
27 Do not turn to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil.

Footnotes:
  1. Proverbs 4:7 Or Wisdom is supreme; therefore get
  2. Proverbs 4:7 Or wisdom. / Whatever else you get
  3. Proverbs 4:26 Or Make level
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

For me, some of the above makes no sense with the entire Bible, until I change a few things.

In 6, I would captilaize Wisdom.

In 7, I would capitalize the second usage of wisdom to Wisdom.

In 11, I might capitalize wisdom, to Wisdom.
Yes upon reading further, it really hits home, to Captialize Wisdom in verse 11.

In 16, through 19, we are told of the secret internal lives of those who do what is wrong.
Really it sounds horrible, and it seems it is so, when tested on humans, not that one can doubt what God ever says, successfully. This also ties into lean not on your own understandings, in accepting this as their true lives, merely because God said it is so.

In 22 life is used. Changing that definiton to being with God, after this earthly life, from the normal human defintion of amount of years on this earth, allows it to make sense in Biblically, more to me.

In 22 health is mentioned, and to me that is Spritual health. It is not the other kind.
For me I am in almost total health, spiritually. What I lack is just being in Heaven and having access to all of you, from there, so I can love there, and love anyone God allows me to love here. And if there are ones in Purgatory as the Catholics say, so I can love them.
Yet, physically in human terms, my body had no health that is good. My health is less than what is called health, in human terms.
So it seems health has two meanings. One is what God means in the Bible. The other is what humans mean.
I do substitutions always, to make sense out of the Bible.

In 23 heart is mentioned. To me there are two hearts. Yes, I have seen both of them.
A yes to God forms a heart to God it seems. I say the heart here is that kind of heart, and no other form.
Yes, I am saying heart here is not the physical human heart. I am saying neither is it the human emotion called heart either. It is the emotional responses the come from agreeing with God, and then it is using that.
Thus 23 to me says guard that heart. Guard the yes to God heart, the one that followed God and grew. The one that puts a person into the Kingdom of God.
Is it not possible that the Kingdom of God resides in ones heart, not solely but also? Is it not possible that the Kingdom of God is a place where all those who say yes to God continually reside, but are also every collective Yes to God heart out there?

In verse 27, guarding a yes to God heart, for me, by passing the test of Wisdom, for Absolute Honesty, that heart becomes fuller or is given the ability to love like God loves, and to me loving like God actually loves is called LOVE, and therefore feet, the outcome of decisions of the heart and maybe the mind, cannot result in feet to deceive hurt or kill, rather in feet to heal, feet that lead to tasks of God, first Biblically, then maybe directed personally by Jesus, to heal, to cure other bodies, in health, Spiritually.

I am tired. I have nothing left. Tears are in these eyes now, and I don't know why. Sorry.

LOVE,
...Mary., M., .... .
 
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Tishri1

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Happy 4th of July Folks! Time to Read Proverbs Chapter 4 for this special day.

1 Listen, children, to a father's instruction; pay attention, in order to gain insight;
2 for I am giving you good advice; so don't abandon my teaching.
3 For I too was once a child to my father; and my mother, too, thought of me as her special darling.
4 He too taught me; he said to me, "Let your heart treasure my words; keep my commands, and live;
5 gain wisdom, gain insight; don't forget or turn from the words I am saying.
As a parent, your children are often not appearing to listen to you at all and you have to cling to these words and pray they will get it someday or perhaps draw from it somewhere inside them someday.
6 Don't abandon [wisdom]; then she will preserve you; love her, and she will protect you.
7 The beginning of wisdom is: get wisdom! And along with all your getting, get insight!
8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you; embrace her, and she will bring you honor;
9 she will give your head a garland of grace, bestow on you a crown of glory."
And with this new study/devotional we will be doing that day by day and month by month- Amen!
10 Listen, my son, receive what I say, and the years of your life will be many.
11 I'm directing you on the way of wisdom, guiding you in paths of uprightness;
12 when you walk, your step won't be hindered; and if you run, you won't stumble.
Again my hearts cry is for my Children to follow The Lord and avoid the heartache of being tossed to and fro by the winds of the world.

18 But the path of the righteous is like the light of dawn, shining ever brighter until full daylight.

20My son, pay attention to what I am saying; incline your ear to my words.
21 Don't let them out of your sight, keep them deep in your heart;
22 for they are life to those who find them and health to their whole being.
23 Above everything else, guard your heart; for it is the source of life's consequences.
 
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Tishri1

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NOTE<Staff Edit to Members>Kat started the thread for Chapter 4 here - Everyone read Chapter 4 if it is the 4th day of the month today (Today is July 4 that is why we are reading Chapter 4). Come back and give us your thoughts....Tishri1 :wave:

Hi, (And I am now making edits. I was tired. )

Good morning all. The moderator said she would help with this.
It is the fourth, I read it last night. I will give my thoughts after it is posted and before.

To me error jumps out, and it seems God makes that happen. Life as seen in Proverbs is not to me, life on earth.

To me life in the Bible is maybe life on earth sometimes, but I always translate life this way:

Life is being alive with God, after this earthly life.
Death is being alive without God, after this earthly life.

Those two changes to how I read the Bible with my human experienced mind, allow me to understand and really love the God I know better, as with those definitions, even Adam and Eve makes sense, Biblically.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Proverbs 4 New International Version (NIV)
Get Wisdom at Any Cost
4 Listen, my sons, to a father’s instruction;
pay attention and gain understanding.
2 I give you sound learning,
so do not forsake my teaching.
3 For I too was a son to my father,
still tender, and cherished by my mother.
4 Then he taught me, and he said to me,
“Take hold of my words with all your heart;
keep my commands, and you will live.
5 Get wisdom, get understanding;
do not forget my words or turn away from them.
6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you;
love her, and she will watch over you.
7 The beginning of wisdom is this: Get[a] wisdom.
Though it cost all you have,[b] get understanding.
8 Cherish her, and she will exalt you;
embrace her, and she will honor you.
9 She will give you a garland to grace your head
and present you with a glorious crown.”

10 Listen, my son, accept what I say,
and the years of your life will be many.
11 I instruct you in the way of wisdom
and lead you along straight paths.
12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered;
when you run, you will not stumble.
13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go;
guard it well, for it is your life.
14 Do not set foot on the path of the wicked
or walk in the way of evildoers.
15 Avoid it, do not travel on it;
turn from it and go on your way.
16 For they cannot rest until they do evil;
they are robbed of sleep till they make someone stumble.
17 They eat the bread of wickedness
and drink the wine of violence.

18 The path of the righteous is like the morning sun,
shining ever brighter till the full light of day.
19 But the way of the wicked is like deep darkness;
they do not know what makes them stumble.

20 My son, pay attention to what I say;
turn your ear to my words.
21 Do not let them out of your sight,
keep them within your heart;
22 for they are life to those who find them
and health to one’s whole body.
23 Above all else, guard your heart,
for everything you do flows from it.
24 Keep your mouth free of perversity;
keep corrupt talk far from your lips.
25 Let your eyes look straight ahead;
fix your gaze directly before you.
26 Give careful thought to the[c] paths for your feet
and be steadfast in all your ways.
27 Do not turn to the right or the left;
keep your foot from evil.

Footnotes:
  1. Proverbs 4:7 Or Wisdom is supreme; therefore get
  2. Proverbs 4:7 Or wisdom. / Whatever else you get
  3. Proverbs 4:26 Or Make level
New International Version (NIV)
Holy Bible, New International Version®, NIV® Copyright ©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi,

For me, some of the above makes no sense with the entire Bible, until I change a few things.

In 6, I would captilaize Wisdom.

In 7, I would capitalize the second usage of wisdom to Wisdom.

In 11, I might capitalize wisdom, to Wisdom.
Yes upon reading further, it really hits home, to Captialize Wisdom in verse 11.

In 16, through 19, we are told of the secret internal lives of those who do what is wrong.
Really it sounds horrible, and it seems it is so, when tested on humans, not that one can doubt what God ever says, successfully. This also ties into lean not on your own understandings, in accepting this as their true lives, merely because God said it is so.

In 22 life is used. Changing that definiton to being with God, after this earthly life, from the normal human defintion of amount of years on this earth, allows it to make sense in Biblically, more to me.

In 22 health is mentioned, and to me that is Spritual health. It is not the other kind.
For me I am in almost total health, spiritually. What I lack is just being in Heaven and having access to all of you, from there, so I can love there, and love anyone God allows me to love here. And if there are ones in Purgatory as the Catholics say, so I can love them.
Yet, physically in human terms, my body had no health that is good. My health is less than what is called health, in human terms.
So it seems health has two meanings. One is what God means in the Bible. The other is what humans mean.
I do substitutions always, to make sense out of the Bible.

In 23 heart is mentioned. To me there are two hearts. Yes, I have seen both of them.
A yes to God forms a heart to God it seems. I say the heart here is that kind of heart, and no other form.
Yes, I am saying heart here is not the physical human heart. I am saying neither is it the human emotion called heart either. It is the emotional responses the come from agreeing with God, and then it is using that.
Thus 23 to me says guard that heart. Guard the yes to God heart, the one that followed God and grew. The one that puts a person into the Kingdom of God.
Is it not possible that the Kingdom of God resides in ones heart, not solely but also? Is it not possible that the Kingdom of God is a place where all those who say yes to God continually reside, but are also every collective Yes to God heart out there?

In verse 27, guarding a yes to God heart, for me, by passing the test of Wisdom, for Absolute Honesty, that heart becomes fuller or is given the ability to love like God loves, and to me loving like God actually loves is called LOVE, and therefore feet, the outcome of decisions of the heart and maybe the mind, cannot result in feet to deceive hurt or kill, rather in feet to heal, feet that lead to tasks of God, first Biblically, then maybe directed personally by Jesus, to heal, to cure other bodies, in health, Spiritually.

I am tired. I have nothing left. Tears are in these eyes now, and I don't know why. Sorry.

LOVE,
...Mary., M., .... .
Hi Mary,
I moved this chapter four post here to chapter four (your free to make these threads on your own if you see no one else has made one yet for the day.)
I support your tears as I know with emotion behind our study, God has captured our hearts!:prayer:
 
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jsimms615

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To me, the key verse was verse 26, that we are to give careful thought to our path. This is what wisdom does. It makes us consider consequences of our actions. It helps us think about the possible consequences and benefits of choices. So many people do not pause to think about what they are doing and who is may affect. They act and then like a bomb things explode. Posting something foolish on facebook and hurting others, saying a harsh word, acting out of anger. These acts are foolish and have hurtful consequences. We don't realize the harm we do with hurtful words
 
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Tishri1

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To me, the key verse was verse 26, that we are to give careful thought to our path. This is what wisdom does. It makes us consider consequences of our actions. It helps us think about the possible consequences and benefits of choices. So many people do not pause to think about what they are doing and who is may affect. They act and then like a bomb things explode. Posting something foolish on facebook and hurting others, saying a harsh word, acting out of anger. These acts are foolish and have hurtful consequences. We don't realize the harm we do with hurtful words
Amen! I totally agree! Those are very wise words !!!
 
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Flute28

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Tis is the fourth day of the month, right? Only it is August. I think that this chapter of course tells us to have wisdom and walk in the path of righteousness. That those who stray drink from the wine of violence, etc. This chapter meant something to me personally because I once wrote to a man who had gone to jail for murders, and was going to go to prison. I do not believe that hope is lost for his soul. What I do believe is that we ought to always walk the straight and narrow, seeking out righteousness and the face of God wherever we go. This man must be going through torment right now. The beautiful part of redemption is that when he comes to the decision to walk the path of righteousness and seek God's face, all sin washes away. Thank you for sharing this. It has been a big blessing to me.
 
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Tishri1

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I love what you said here as its soooo true!
The beautiful part of redemption is that when he comes to the decision to walk the path of righteousness and seek God's face, all sin washes away. Thank you for sharing this.
God is sooooooo good!
 
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Tishri1

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1 Children, hearken to the discipline of the Father, and listen to know understanding.
2 For I gave you good teaching; forsake not My instruction.
3 For I was a son to my father, a tender one and an only one before my mother.
  • For I was a son to my father: Lest you say that Solomon hated people because he admonished them concerning robbery and immorality, something a person desires, he therefore states: I was a son, etc., a tender one and an only one, etc., that he loved me very much. (bullet points are from Rashi's Commentary)
4 And he instructed me and said to me, "May your heart draw near to my words; keep my commandments and live.
5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding; do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth.
6 Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her and she will guard you.
  • Heb. אהבה, love her.
7 The beginning of wisdom [is to] acquire wisdom, and with all your possession acquire understanding.
  • The beginning of wisdom [is to] acquire wisdom: At the beginning of your wisdom, learn from others and acquire for yourself the tradition from the mouth of the teacher, and afterwards with all your possession acquire understanding. Concentrate on it by yourself to understand the reasons, thereby deriving one thing from another.
8 Search for her, and she will exalt you; she will honor you when you embrace her.
  • who goes repeatedly through the vineyard and brings back his hand to search for the single grapes.
9 She will give your head a wreath of grace; she will transmit to you a crown of glory. טתִּתֵּן לְרֹאשְׁךָ לִוְיַת חֵן עֲטֶרֶת תִּפְאֶרֶת תְּמַגְּנֶךָּ:
She will give your head a wreath of grace: Heb. לוית חן, a wreath of grace, as in (1:9): “They are a wreath of grace (לוית חן) for your head.”
10 Hearken, my son, and take my words, and years of life will increase for you.
11 In the way of wisdom I instructed you; I led you in the paths of uprightness.
12 When you walk, your step will not be straitened, and if you run, you will not stumble.
  • When you walk, your step will not be straightened: One who does not spread out his legs is likely to fall.
13 Take fast hold of discipline, do not let it loose; guard it, for it is your life.
  • Grasp the Torah, as in (Gen. 21:18) “and grasp (והחזיקי) your hand onto him” ; (Ex. 4:4) “and he stretched out his hand and grasped it (ויחזק).”
14 You shall not come in the way of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil.
  • [as translated,] do not walk, as in (Job 23:11), “My foot has held to His path,” and as in (Proverbs 14:15), “but a cunning man understands his steps.”
15 Avoid it, do not pass through it; turn away from it and pass.
  • Avoid it: Heb. פרע, put it to naught.
16 For they will not sleep if they do not commit evil, and their sleep will be robbed away if they do not cause stumbling.
  • They are unable to sleep.
17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and they drink the wine of violence.
18 But the way of the righteous is like the light of dawn; it shines ever brighter until the day is perfect.
  • which shines and illuminates from the first ray of dawn. Until midday, which is the brightest time of day.
19 The way of the wicked is like pitch darkness; they do not know on what they stumble.
  • they do not know on what they stumble: Suddenly, an obstacle will come to them, and they will not know how to beware of it.
20 My son, hearken to my words; incline your ear to my sayings.
21 Let them not depart from your eyes; guard them within your heart,
22 for they are life for those who find them, and for all his flesh a healing.
23 From every interdict guard your heart, for the issues of life [come] out of it.
  • From whatever the Torah commanded to beware of, guard your heart (from transgressing), regardless whether it is a minor sin or a grave sin. For from even a minor one you shall have life and a great reward if you fulfill it-so did Rabbi Tanhuma expound.
24 Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.
  • Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you. This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).” Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you.
25 Let your eyes look forward, and let your eyelids look straight ahead of you.
  • Let them look to truth and uprightness. Let them look at what is upright, to straighten your way before you.
26 Weigh the path of your feet, and all your ways will be established.
  • Weigh the path of your feet: Weigh your way: the loss of a commandment against its reward and the reward of a sin against its loss, and then all your ways will be established.
27 Turn neither right nor left; keep your feet from evil.
 
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katerinah1947

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1 Children, hearken to the discipline of the Father, and listen to know understanding.
2 For I gave you good teaching; forsake not My instruction.
3 For I was a son to my father, a tender one and an only one before my mother.
  • For I was a son to my father: Lest you say that Solomon hated people because he admonished them concerning robbery and immorality, something a person desires, he therefore states: I was a son, etc., a tender one and an only one, etc., that he loved me very much. (bullet points are from Rashi's Commentary)
4 And he instructed me and said to me, "May your heart draw near to my words; keep my commandments and live.
5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding; do not forget, and do not turn away from the words of my mouth.
6 Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; love her and she will guard you.
  • Heb. אהבה, love her.
7 The beginning of wisdom [is to] acquire wisdom, and with all your possession acquire understanding.
  • The beginning of wisdom [is to] acquire wisdom: At the beginning of your wisdom, learn from others and acquire for yourself the tradition from the mouth of the teacher, and afterwards with all your possession acquire understanding. Concentrate on it by yourself to understand the reasons, thereby deriving one thing from another.
8 Search for her, and she will exalt you; she will honor you when you embrace her.
  • who goes repeatedly through the vineyard and brings back his hand to search for the single grapes.
9 She will give your head a wreath of grace; she will transmit to you a crown of glory. טתִּתֵּן לְרֹאשְׁךָ לִוְיַת חֵן עֲטֶרֶת תִּפְאֶרֶת תְּמַגְּנֶךָּ:
She will give your head a wreath of grace: Heb. לוית חן, a wreath of grace, as in (1:9): “They are a wreath of grace (לוית חן) for your head.”
10 Hearken, my son, and take my words, and years of life will increase for you.
11 In the way of wisdom I instructed you; I led you in the paths of uprightness.
12 When you walk, your step will not be straitened, and if you run, you will not stumble.
  • When you walk, your step will not be straightened: One who does not spread out his legs is likely to fall.
13 Take fast hold of discipline, do not let it loose; guard it, for it is your life.
  • Grasp the Torah, as in (Gen. 21:18) “and grasp (והחזיקי) your hand onto him” ; (Ex. 4:4) “and he stretched out his hand and grasped it (ויחזק).”
14 You shall not come in the way of the wicked, and do not walk in the way of the evil.
  • [as translated,] do not walk, as in (Job 23:11), “My foot has held to His path,” and as in (Proverbs 14:15), “but a cunning man understands his steps.”
15 Avoid it, do not pass through it; turn away from it and pass.
  • Avoid it: Heb. פרע, put it to naught.
16 For they will not sleep if they do not commit evil, and their sleep will be robbed away if they do not cause stumbling.
  • They are unable to sleep.
17 For they eat the bread of wickedness, and they drink the wine of violence.
18 But the way of the righteous is like the light of dawn; it shines ever brighter until the day is perfect.
  • which shines and illuminates from the first ray of dawn. Until midday, which is the brightest time of day.
19 The way of the wicked is like pitch darkness; they do not know on what they stumble.
  • they do not know on what they stumble: Suddenly, an obstacle will come to them, and they will not know how to beware of it.
20 My son, hearken to my words; incline your ear to my sayings.
21 Let them not depart from your eyes; guard them within your heart,
22 for they are life for those who find them, and for all his flesh a healing.
23 From every interdict guard your heart, for the issues of life [come] out of it.
  • From whatever the Torah commanded to beware of, guard your heart (from transgressing), regardless whether it is a minor sin or a grave sin. For from even a minor one you shall have life and a great reward if you fulfill it-so did Rabbi Tanhuma expound.
24 Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.
  • Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you. This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).” Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you.
25 Let your eyes look forward, and let your eyelids look straight ahead of you.
  • Let them look to truth and uprightness. Let them look at what is upright, to straighten your way before you.
26 Weigh the path of your feet, and all your ways will be established.
  • Weigh the path of your feet: Weigh your way: the loss of a commandment against its reward and the reward of a sin against its loss, and then all your ways will be established.
27 Turn neither right nor left; keep your feet from evil.

Hi,


Proverbs 4:24 Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.

Rashi wrote:
  • Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you. This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).” Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you. [/qutoe]
Hi,

And I guess Hi, to Rashi also. In Rashi's commentary it seems to me that Proverbs 4:24 is about something else, than what Rashi seems to think it means. Consider:.....


24 Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.
  • Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you.
  • I would think this is don't slander others.
  • This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).”
  • Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you.
  • I would think this is also do not use lies, on other people.

.....Does it say, to stop crooked speech, speech with lies to gain property and all else that is gained dishonestly, rather than to cast aside those who slander you, as Rashi commented upon?

Jesus was slandered, and in a time where God had closed their minds, lest they come to Him and hear and be healed. But, He did things for which He was constantly slandered about. He healed, he ate with tax collectors, and he even healed on the Sabbath.

Giving away devious speech is similar, in that it hurts others, for your gain. Please see if you can find this as you, putting away crooked speech, and not in fact keeping crooked speech away from you.

Keeping you safe, verbally is God's job.

I see no other issue, with all that Rashi wrote, but I did not go over it all again.

LOVE,
 
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Tishri1

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Here is the Rashi part on 1:24 maybe it will help.
Proverbs 4: 24Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.(CJB)

Take crooked speech away from yourself: Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you.

crooked speech: Heb. עקשות. This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).”

devious lips: Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you.
 
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katerinah1947

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Here is the Rashi part on 1:24 maybe it will help.
Proverbs 4: 24Take crooked speech away from yourself, and put devious lips far away from you.(CJB)

Take crooked speech away from yourself: Don’t do anything for which people will slander you and make their mouths crooked [when talking] about you.

crooked speech: Heb. עקשות. This is an expression of עקום, crooked, as in (Job 9:20): “Though I was innocent, He would prove me perverse (ויעקשני) ,” and in the Mishnah (Hullin 3: 3) “its teeth are crooked and twisted (עקושות).”

devious lips: Crooked lips, that the people should not open their mouth wide [when talking] about you.

Hi,

I have started.

Of Job, God said to him, that he knows nothing, and then proceeded to tell him how little he knew.

Job flipped, from making no mistake about God being able to hurt him, to one where he felt unjustifiably hurt by God.

That seems like a mistake to me, and God called him on it, first from the clouds and then from directly seeing God.

As soon as God revealed Himself to Job, somehow Job knew that he was wrong. How that happened is not stated. What is revealed is Job knew nothing, of why he was being hurt. Job accepted that first hurt. Job was hurt again. Then somewhere in time, he rejected this hurt as being deserved.

God spoke to him out of a cloud.
Job saw God.
Job recanted.

Job could not recant, unless he lied, if he did not know what had transpired in heaven. Somewhere between God talking to him at length, and God actually revealing Himself to Job, the knowledge of what actually happened, and why Job was actually wrong, was revealed to him. If it was not revealed to him, Job could not recant without telling a lie. God did not call him on a lie, when he recanted.

However, looking at Job's heart for God if I can call it that, Job never waivered in his opinion on God.

Now, there may be errors in Job 9, as Job is talking there. There would be no errors later. He may have mispoken about God, however, he was proven wrong but perverse that I don't think was ever proven to be the case with Job.

I still don't know though. These are just some thoughts for me to work with.

LOVE,

Job is responding to Bildad's accusation that surely Job is being punished for his sins, in Job 9:26. As such, from my research so far, Job is really saying that his words taken by Bilbad, are false. It is the close proximity of Job 9:19 which is about God, to Job 9:20 which allows us to think Job is talking about God calling his words wrong, rather than Bildad.

As a Christian, we are told the truth that we are all sinners, so any comments that we should be perfect enough to not allow someone to say we are not perfect, rather than slander would be the truth.

And I would think that I am totally allowed to talk about God, as long as I know what I am talking about.

Also, if I do not purport myself to be God and I talk about Him, how is that a reason for anyone to slander me?????

So, I still cannot justify Rashi's comments on merely that one point alone. All else seems fine.

LOVE,
 
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YESLORDIWILL

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Pro 4:1 Hear, ye children, the instruction of a father, and attend to know understanding.

Some things my dad continually said to me as I was growing up:

Treat other people the way you want to be treated.

If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Don't put others down to make yourself look better, it never makes you look better.

Think before you speak.

Proverbs 4:24 sums it up just perfectly,

Pro 4:24 Put away from thee a froward mouth, and perverse lips put far from thee.

25 Let thine eyes look right on, and let thine eyelids look straight before thee. 26 Ponder the path of thy feet, and let all thy ways be established. 27 Turn not to the right hand nor to the left...

I just love my dad ♡
 
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brinny

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in Proverbs 4:5-10, there are glorious promises (including a long, and favored and blessed life) to those who seek wisdom and thus get understanding, and hold tight to "her" (i've always found the description of wisdom as "she" to be immensely intriguing) :)

5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
6 Forsake her not, and she shall preserve thee: love her, and she shall keep thee.
7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
8 Exalt her, and she shall promote thee: she shall bring thee to honour, when thou dost embrace her.
9 She shall give to thine head an ornament of grace: a crown of glory shall she deliver to thee.
10 Hear, O my son, and receive my sayings; and the years of thy life shall be many.
 
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katerinah1947

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Hi,

On Proverbs 4, and you.

Tears are now in my eyes
I wonder I wonder why
The day of yesterday is there
The day of today teared me

It is the beauty of two others
As they struggle with the weapon of God
How can a weapon be so loved
How can a weapon be so loved

Was it not Jesus who said
I bring not peace, the kind we think
I bring something else
God to fight

But fighting like God
Is fighting with love
Love that only
Sees the beloved

Each person before
Like say nothing unkind
Each person before
Is our beloved

It is God's also

The tears are for you
I tear with your wisdom
I tear with your wisdom
From who I say

Is the one who has
favored you on your way
Sure to me,
God made she

Sure he gave her
wisdom and called her
Sure he assigned her
And she loves all

He assigned her
passing on
wisdom of
and from God

As you learn
So do I
wisdom is not in me
it is learned.

LOVE,
 
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Proverbs 4:1-5
I understand this verse in 3 parts:
1. A father giving instruction to his children
2. A Pastor/Priest, ect giving instruction to the church
3. God the Father giving instruction to His children (exempt from verses 3-4 since God was never a child)
This teaching can both be used in the world we live in as well as the Eternal.

Proverbs 4:6-13
Heed the words of wisdom and live long in the world and spend Eternity with Him. I feel like this is also speaking about love, how to love a woman.

Proverbs 4:14-27
Listening to what our Father says and remembering them with our eyes (seeing the destruction of the ways of the wicked) as proof of His sayings.
To keep our life we must heed His Words and be different from those of the world - cussing and cursing, ect. The same is with our path.
 
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