LDS & Masonry & Claiming to be the Restored Church

drstevej · Oct 2, 2015

The LDS Church claims to be the restored church. This is the essence of their "First Vision." Yet in many ways LDS borrow heavily from Masonry for their ritual, garments, and other secret (insider only) handshakes, etc. This thread is to explore those parallels and the implications for the claim to be a "restored church."

Ironhold · Oct 2, 2015

You can stop beating the horse now. It's dead.

Job8 · Oct 2, 2015

Ironhold said:
You can stop beating the horse now. It's dead.

Correct. Masonry has been clearly restored to where it belong.

moleowner · Oct 3, 2015

There are claims that when Joseph Smith was shot by the mob (not the feds) he cried out at the jail window "Is there no help for a widow's son?" This apparently was a masonic "secret" call for help.
I'll do a bit of reading and add to this discussion.

moleowner · Oct 4, 2015

Joseph Smiths interest in Masonry may date back to 1827. In that year in Batavia a printing press was burned down and an expose of Masonic rites and oaths soon to be published and written by William Morgan were discovered. Morgan was then abducted taken for a mock trial at Canandaigua 9 miles from where Smith lived. He then dissapeared. Amongst the following anti Mason hysteria 5 masons were tried for his murder but aquited. In October 1827 a bloated body washed up on the shore of Lake Ontario . Mrs Morgan identified it as her husbands body but Masons suggested it was a Timothy Monroe's body who had drowned some weeks earlier, and so it proved to be.
Some people feel that this Morgan Monroe business may have provided inspiration to Joseph Smith.

Ironhold · Oct 4, 2015

moleowner said:
Joseph Smiths interest in Masonry may date back to 1827. In that year in Batavia a printing press was burned down and an expose of Masonic rites and oaths soon to be published and written by William Morgan were discovered. Morgan was then abducted taken for a mock trial at Canandaigua 9 miles from where Smith lived. He then dissapeared. Amongst the following anti Mason hysteria 5 masons were tried for his murder but aquited. In October 1827 a bloated body washed up on the shore of Lake Ontario . Mrs Morgan identified it as her husbands body but Masons suggested it was a Timothy Monroe's body who had drowned some weeks earlier, and so it proved to be.
Some people feel that this Morgan Monroe business may have provided inspiration to Joseph Smith.

I've yet to see anyone offer more than speculation and tenuous links, however.

moleowner · Oct 4, 2015

Well, you're right of course. We can't read Smith's mind. My statement is only of a speculative nature with no cast iron gaurantee.

Albion · Oct 4, 2015

drstevej said:
The LDS Church claims to be the restored church. This is the essence of their "First Vision." Yet in many ways LDS borrow heavily from Masonry for their ritual, garments, and other secret (insider only) handshakes, etc. This thread is to explore those parallels and the implications for the claim to be a "restored church."

Masonry does NOT claim to the Restored Church, a Restored Church, or any kind of church for that matter.

Joseph Smith, the founder of the LDS, apparently had been initiated as a novice Mason and incorporated some of the rituals and attire that he learned of--along with what his brothers knew--into his new religion. That, however, has nothing more to do with Masonry than do the rituals and other incidentals adapted from Masonry, without permission, by several (other) Christian churches, the Knights of Columbus, the Elks and similar lodges, college social fraternities, and other organizations that are not connected to Masonry.

Albion · Oct 4, 2015

moleowner said:
There are claims that when Joseph Smith was shot by the mob (not the feds) he cried out at the jail window "Is there no help for a widow's son?" This apparently was a masonic "secret" call for help.
I'll do a bit of reading and add to this discussion.

The earliest reports, from both Masonic and Mormon sources, have it that he was heard to say "'O Lord My God!", which has been claimed by some observers to be leading into a Masonic signal of distress, but could as easily mean something else.

GracetotheHumble · Oct 4, 2015

Albion said:
had been initiated as a novice Mason

Actually from what I understand he was a master mason.

Ironhold · Oct 4, 2015

GracetotheHumble said:
Actually from what I understand he was a master mason.

That didn't happen until after most of what would become the temple endowment ceremony was in place.

Go back and check the link I posted.

moleowner · Oct 5, 2015

Gracetothehumble said:
Actually from what I understand he was a master mason.

My info is When Smith set up the lodge in Nauvoo on 15/3/1842 he became a first degree Mason and the following night was raised to the sublime degree (Whatever that means).

Further to my Mormon word derivation. Smiths own explanation is that "mon" is the Egyptian word for "good" and when combined with a shortened form of "more" you get a word that means "more good"

fatboys · Oct 5, 2015

moleowner said:
My info is When Smith set up the lodge in Nauvoo on 15/3/1842 he became a first degree Mason and the following night was raised to the sublime degree (Whatever that
Further to my Mormon word derivation. Smiths own explanation is that "mon" is the Egyptian word for "good" and when combined with a shortened form of "more" you get a word that means "more good"

Joseph Smith was a third degree mason of which there are thirty three degrees. When Joseph smith receive the endowment over quite some time he had shared these revelations with church leaders. Brigham Young was already a mason and told Joseph that there some similarities in the endowment and Masonic symbols and rites. Joseph Smith decided he would become a mason to see how much there really was. Brigham young was his sponsor. He attended three meetings and became a third degree the first night.

Albion · Oct 5, 2015

GracetotheHumble said:
Actually from what I understand he was a master mason.

There seems to be general agreement that he was made a Mason of some sort. There is no actual degree called "Novice." As for being a "Master Mason," there is testimony that he was made one "on sight" by a state officer...and this is a an extremely rare thing, somewhat like getting an honorary doctor's degree from some college.

He would not, therefore, have gone though any of the training, preparation, etc. or have been introduced to the ritual, let alone to the ritual and information that is between Entered Apprentice and Master Mason. His brothers and some of his associates, however, are known to have been Masons.

Ironhold · Oct 5, 2015

moleowner said:
Further to my Mormon word derivation. Smiths own explanation is that "mon" is the Egyptian word for "good" and when combined with a shortened form of "more" you get a word that means "more good"

[citation needed]

Albion · Oct 5, 2015

Anyway, if we get back to the OP, the connection to Masonry is purely incidental. Joseph Smith borrowed some artifacts, ritual, and attire from Masonry, either thanks to his own experience (limited as it was) with Masonry or that of his brothers and other Mormon leaders. There is no other connection.

As for the second part of the OP...

I am assuming that--since there is no real connection between Freemasonry and a "restored" church or the Mormon claim that theirs is a restored church--the second part of the OP that asks about "implications" is moot. There wouldn't seem to be any implications.

A New Dawn · Oct 5, 2015

moleowner said:
There are claims that when Joseph Smith was shot by the mob (not the feds) he cried out at the jail window "Is there no help for a widow's son?" This apparently was a masonic "secret" call for help.
I'll do a bit of reading and add to this discussion.

Actually, he cried out "Oh, Lord my God", which many claim is the precursor for 'Is there no help for a widow's son?'.

A New Dawn · Oct 5, 2015

Ironhold said:
That didn't happen until after most of what would become the temple endowment ceremony was in place.

Go back and check the link I posted.

Actually, it happened in 1840. Joseph Smith joined the Masons by 1840, and by 1842 he rose to the rank of Master Mason. The endowment ceremony was not instituted till later in the 1840s, initiated by Smith and updated by BY.

Albion · Oct 5, 2015

A New Dawn said:
Actually, it happened in 1840. Joseph Smith joined the Masons by 1840, and by 1842 he rose to the rank of Master Mason. The endowment ceremony was not instituted till later in the 1840s, initiated by Smith and updated by BY.

I can't find anything that says it took Joseph Smith three years to advance to Master Mason or that he ever went through the initiations. As noted before, there is general agreement that he was made a Master Mason "on sight." Smith's own account has him joining in 1842 and being raised to Master Mason the next day.

A New Dawn · Oct 5, 2015

Albion said:
I can't find anything that says it took Joseph Smith three years to advance to Master Mason or that he ever went through the initiations. As noted before, there is general agreement that he was made a Master Mason "on sight." Smith's own account has him joining in 1842 and being raised to Master Mason the next day.

Maybe I was inferring something that was only implied. It (a quote from a book by one of the LDS historians) said that by 1840, a Masonic lodge was opened in Nauvoo and Joseph Smith and his brother joined shortly after it opened, and by 1842, he became a master mason. I did hear the story, long ago, also, that he joined one day and rose to master mason the next.

LDS & Masonry & Claiming to be the Restored Church

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

Member

Senior Member

Newbie

Newbie

Member

Newbie

Facilitator

Facilitator

Theology of the Cross

Member

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Facilitator

Member

Facilitator

God is bigger than the boogeyman!

God is bigger than the boogeyman!

Facilitator

God is bigger than the boogeyman!

Similar threads