Man is god in embryo

fatboys

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It has been said of the critics of the LDS faith that it is blasphemy to think that man could be god. They claim that to do so would some how take away from the glory of God. If man were able to reach perfection over eons of time wouldn't that add to the glory of God as this person continues to worship God through the eternities?
 

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If we define God as "an eternal, self-existing being", then that obviously doesn't apply to any of us. And eternity isn't something that can be achieved in time. Godhood in Mormonism is more like the Greco-Roman pantheon or something from Stan Lee.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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This reminds me of the Jesuit priest Teilhard de Chardin's concept of the Omega Point, as well as concepts such as the Japanese kami or the African/Afro-Caribbean loa, both of which do not see an essential difference between spirit, soul, and deity, instead conceiving of it in terms of quantity.

I suppose it all depends on how you define divinity, and how you conceive of human individuality in relation to that.
 
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seashale76

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I do think the LDS view is a distortion of the concept of theosis (which is how we view salvation)- it's also referred to as illumination/divinization/deification. As St. Athanasius said, 'God became man so that man could become like God.' This refers to the idea that humans can have union with God to such a degree that we participate in God's divine nature. However, participating in God's energies is not the same as becoming like God in essence (which is not possible for us because God is incomprehensible in His essence). It is only through Christ that we can be sanctified and achieve this union.

In fact, being in God's presence in this manner is how we view the state of heaven. Not being able to endure this is how we view the state of hell. If you think of the concept of the three youths in the fiery furnace- how they were able to be in the fire with no issues while others perished by even being near the fire- then you're on the right track. It's two very different ways of perceiving the same thing (being in God's presence and experiencing His love).
 
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LoAmmi

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It has been said of the critics of the LDS faith that it is blasphemy to think that man could be god.

I don't know of any critics of LDS that are Jewish, but from our POV a man cannot be HaShem and HaShem is not a man. He tells us this as He says that He is not a man lest He should lie. His nature if not our nature and will never be our nature. Of course, the LDS view of the divine is more at odds with Judaism than standard Christian beliefs so I'm not surprised.
 
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Fatboy wrote: "If man were able to reach perfection over eons of time wouldn't that add to the glory of God as this person continues to worship God through the eternities?"

It might be a case of very inflated ego... Worshiping God implies being humble and praying for His mercy.
 
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It has been said of the critics of the LDS faith that it is blasphemy to think that man could be god. They claim that to do so would some how take away from the glory of God. If man were able to reach perfection over eons of time wouldn't that add to the glory of God as this person continues to worship God through the eternities?

Nah, sounds boring.
 
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St_Worm2

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God tells us that:

“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,

And there will be none after Me." ~Isaiah 43:10

 
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fatboys

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This reminds me of the Jesuit priest Teilhard de Chardin's concept of the Omega Point, as well as concepts such as the Japanese kami or the African/Afro-Caribbean loa, both of which do not see an essential difference between spirit, soul, and deity, instead conceiving of it in terms of quantity.

I suppose it all depends on how you define divinity, and how you conceive of human individuality in relation to that.
Let's say God was like us and he progressed as he would like is to progress. That divinity is the what a person can obtain by learning discipline having faith and continually gaining knowledge until a person has gained all knowledge necessary to have all power but has the disipline to continue in the eternal progress of man
 
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fatboys

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God tells us that:

“You are My witnesses,” declares the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,

And there will be none after Me." ~Isaiah 43:10
So I take it that you believe that before created he was alone in a void. Black nothing floating around in empty space for eons of what ever he counted as time.
 
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fatboys

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Fatboy wrote: "If man were able to reach perfection over eons of time wouldn't that add to the glory of God as this person continues to worship God through the eternities?"

It might be a case of very inflated ego... Worshiping God implies being humble and praying for His mercy.
Was Jesus humble? Did have all knowledge? Are you saying that a person could not gain all knowledge? Any evidence
 
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St_Worm2

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So I take it that you believe that before created he was alone in a void. Black nothing floating around in empty space for eons of what ever he counted as time.

Hi Fatboys, I didn't tell you what I thought, I told you what God teaches us about Himself in the Bible.

Yours and His,
David
 
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ananda

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If the Creator created things apart from itself, then that Creator cannot be infinite, since some things are separate from it. Therefore, it stands to reason (at least to me), that all of creation is part of the Creator.

Just as we can create worlds in our individual minds, so it also stands to reason that the Creator also created all of creation in its mind.

IMO we are each slices of the infinite Creator experiencing what it means to be finite, striving for the infinite. The higher we reach, the closer we get to the core nature of the infinite Creator, the more like the infinite Creator we become, and the more we are the infinite Creator.
 
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LoAmmi

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So I take it that you believe that before created he was alone in a void. Black nothing floating around in empty space for eons of what ever he counted as time.

Nothing suggests we were the first creation. Might not even be the only creation. But since time has no meaning in the concept of eternity, I suppose I'd have to answer yes.
 
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fatboys

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I do think the LDS view is a distortion of the concept of theosis (which is how we view salvation)- it's also referred to as illumination/divinization/deification. As St. Athanasius said, 'God became man so that man could become like God.' This refers to the idea that humans can have union with God to such a degree that we participate in God's divine nature. However, participating in God's energies is not the same as becoming like God in essence (which is not possible for us because God is incomprehensible in His essence). It is only through Christ that we can be sanctified and achieve this union.

In fact, being in God's presence in this manner is how we view the state of heaven. Not being able to endure this is how we view the state of hell. If you think of the concept of the three youths in the fiery furnace- how they were able to be in the fire with no issues while others perished by even being near the fire- then you're on the right track. It's two very different ways of perceiving the same thing (being in God's presence and experiencing His love).
Is his love different from his grace
 
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fatboys

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Nothing suggests we were the first creation. Might not even be the only creation. But since time has no meaning in the concept of eternity, I suppose I'd have to answer yes.
I'm glad you beleive that we were not the first creation because this is what I beleive as well. The difference is that I believe the very essence that each individual is has always existed. God took that essence and placed it in a created spirit body which was a perfect body and which will never degrade or die. After this bonding of what we call inelligence and spirit body we could learn and grow in knowledge. We loved being in the presence of our heavenly parents. But we could only progress so far and is the reason we came to earth. So in short we believe God can offer us eternal life because we have always existed and as we obey his laws and repent we can. Continue to learn and progress until we reach perfection. It won't be in this life but what a blessing it is to be able to honor God and to increase his glory
 
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